A variation on a theme, blame Russia and Iran

My theory is that one of the spy agencies wrote the script which the mainstream media dutifully propagates regarding the downed 737 out of Tehran.

Because it so closely follows the story of MH17, my bet goes on Mossad. They seem to like to mess with airliners of other nationalities, whether Malaysian, Russian, Ukrainian or others.

The theme being pushed by MSM casts blame on Iran and Russia, the same theme with MH17.

Iran's announcement that it did take down the airliner renders the thread moot and irrelevant.

The irony is that we have a most rare example of Trump and the Pentagon telling the truth.

Thanks T72. You finally realize not everything is some CT. Interesting you believe Iran's Government report.

Thoreau72 said:

Iran's announcement that it did take down the airliner renders the thread moot and irrelevant.

The irony is that we have a most rare example of Trump and the Pentagon telling the truth.

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Seems like the fire hose delivery of lies from our spies has slowed since Trump took office.

code1211 said:

Seems like the fire hose delivery of lies from our spies has slowed since Trump took office.

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Sure, 1211, whatever you need to believe. :lol:

Thoreau72 said:

Sure, 1211, whatever you need to believe. :lol:

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Do you have any evidence to oppose my musing?

code1211 said:

Seems like the fire hose delivery of lies from our spies has slowed since Trump took office.

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I'm not sure if I agree. The effort to impeach him is fairly well nothing but a massive delivery of lies from our spies. He is a clown and unfit for office, but he is being framed by the Deep State, CIA whatever.

Apparently Pompeo admitted to more lies on the Laura Ingraham show. I didn't watch that show, but some are reporting that.

His claim on TV in a Texas speech made it pretty clear: 'we lie, we cheat, we steal'.

Thoreau72 said:

I'm not sure if I agree. The effort to impeach him is fairly well nothing but a massive delivery of lies from our spies. He is a clown and unfit for office, but he is being framed by the Deep State, CIA whatever.

Apparently Pompeo admitted to more lies on the Laura Ingraham show. I didn't watch that show, but some are reporting that.

His claim on TV in a Texas speech made it pretty clear: 'we lie, we cheat, we steal'.

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I suppose we'll never know with certainty. The reporting of the lies from our spies is based on the lies leaked by our spies to their willing stenographers in the press.

I really don't expect any honesty from our spies. They are, after all, spies. Watching a movie about a James Bond type guy on TV as a kid, I told my mother that I'd like to be a "secret agent".

She said that being a spy would be horrible. Lying to everyone all the time. No friends. No trust. No life.

Turns out that, once again, mom was right.

code1211 said:

I suppose we'll never know with certainty. The reporting of the lies from our spies is based on the lies leaked by our spies to their willing stenographers in the press.

I really don't expect any honesty from our spies. They are, after all, spies. Watching a movie about a James Bond type guy on TV as a kid, I told my mother that I'd like to be a "secret agent".

She said that being a spy would be horrible. Lying to everyone all the time. No friends. No trust. No life.

Turns out that, once again, mom was right.

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The wisdom of your mother!

Perhaps certainty is a subjective value?

If certainty is defined as having the government admit the truth openly, then no, we will never know with certainty.

But we all have the luxury of hindsight when assessing historical events. And thanks to whistleblowers like Daniel Ellsberg, Edward Snowden, Chelsea Manning and Assange, we can be very certain that the government suppresses the truth and punishes those who speak it, just as Orwell noted in the last century.

I am certain the spies, the media, and the government at large lie all the time, about very important things.

So from my personal perspective, what good reasons are there for me to take at face value what known liars say? There is no compelling reason for such behavior.

I am certain that in most cases the government is lying and the media is simply delivering misinformation. There are exceptions to every rule, but most of the time the government and its media are lying.

Thoreau72 said:

The wisdom of your mother!

Perhaps certainty is a subjective value?

If certainty is defined as having the government admit the truth openly, then no, we will never know with certainty.

But we all have the luxury of hindsight when assessing historical events. And thanks to whistleblowers like Daniel Ellsberg, Edward Snowden, Chelsea Manning and Assange, we can be very certain that the government suppresses the truth and punishes those who speak it, just as Orwell noted in the last century.

I am certain the spies, the media, and the government at large lie all the time, about very important things.

So from my personal perspective, what good reasons are there for me to take at face value what known liars say? There is no compelling reason for such behavior.

I am certain that in most cases the government is lying and the media is simply delivering misinformation. There are exceptions to every rule, but most of the time the government and its media are lying.

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"They" may lie "frequently" of color or share an account as the norm. But I don't think they lie completely about everything all the time.
There are lies of omission as well. It appears that they for sure fudged details, shaped the account toward a patriotic / war agenda but waging war on a band of terrorist wasn't even in the something their tool kit could even do. It seems to me they completely dodged the issues of the design of the towers and how that may have been a factor of their collapse.

In the Pinto case we saw how a bad driver CAUSED the tank explosion... but that the DESIGN was flawed and ALLOWED it to explode. Were the towers Pintos?

Thoreau72 said:

The wisdom of your mother!

Perhaps certainty is a subjective value?

If certainty is defined as having the government admit the truth openly, then no, we will never know with certainty.

But we all have the luxury of hindsight when assessing historical events. And thanks to whistleblowers like Daniel Ellsberg, Edward Snowden, Chelsea Manning and Assange, we can be very certain that the government suppresses the truth and punishes those who speak it, just as Orwell noted in the last century.

I am certain the spies, the media, and the government at large lie all the time, about very important things.

So from my personal perspective, what good reasons are there for me to take at face value what known liars say? There is no compelling reason for such behavior.

I am certain that in most cases the government is lying and the media is simply delivering misinformation. There are exceptions to every rule, but most of the time the government and its media are lying.

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The media is doing more than simply acting as a conduit.

Your post explains well why I am constantly asking people to ask this one simple question when confronted by the lies in our media:

"If this is true, what else must be true?"

code1211 said:

The media is doing more than simply acting as a conduit.

Your post explains well why I am constantly asking people to ask this one simple question when confronted by the lies in our media:

"If this is true, what else must be true?"

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There is so much "media" available today. Of course one should question the media and what they make available to the public.

Some believe it is just the msm media that is spreading the propaganda. They turn a blinds eye to all of the alternative sources they read, listen or watch every day. As long as the source presents a view they hold then facts can be ignored. :mrgreen:

mike2810 said:

There is so much "media" available today. Of course one should question the media and what they make available to the public.

Some believe it is just the msm media that is spreading the propaganda. They turn a blinds eye to all of the alternative sources they read, listen or watch every day. As long as the source presents a view they hold then facts can be ignored. :mrgreen:

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That's true in many cases. That's why people who are wise ask that very vital question: "If this is true, what else must be true?"

Here in Indianapolis, we are told by our homer sports shows every Fall that this year we really have a chance to win the Super Bowl. They are right about 5% of the inmate in this century.

What does this tell us? Probably a couple things. However, it does not tell us that they are impartial arbiters of truth. We really don't want that, anyway.

When we have a president presiding over a pretty great time in our lives and who is doing things, like the China Deal, that other presidents just ran away from, that pretty good.

Despite everything that tells us that he is doing about as good a job as anyone could do in this situation, we are told in 93% of the stories about him that he's doing a bad job.

He ordered a successful kill on a guy who was a child rapist, murderous terrorist and abuser of women. Only about 30% of the courage was positive. Wait! Wut?

There are few if any outlets of published/broadcast/posted information that are honest arbiters of the Truth with a capital T.

Once you know with certainty that an outlet, like CNN, will ALWAYS attack Trump regardless of the story, the facts or the reality, listening to what they say should be done with that in mind.

In the case of CNN, this represents an organizational abandonment of any editorial ethics, any ethics of their profession, any quest for honesty and any respect for their viewers. Disgusting!

As Reagan said, "Trust, but verify".

CNN had Avanotti (sp?) on so often that he seemed to have his own show. There was unapologetic talk about him being President. Now he's in jail. What does this tell us about CNN, CNN's ethics and CCN's reporting in general?