The "Majestic Documents"

SanderO said:

Yes the gov has secrets.

Yes the gov will spin, lie, engage in PR rubbish and has unstated agendas.

You appear to me to show the signs of cognitive dissonance typically rejecting anything "official" or from US gov or mainstream media.

So explain this....

The UFO thing has been in the consciousness of society since the late 40s. Everyone's heard about it. So why has no private citizen found an artifact and not turned it over to the gov and called a press conference to display their find?

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Yeah, I'm pretty sure aliens have not visited this earth. UFOs are merely unidentified flying object. Man made object, or secret military tests. Not surprisingly, a lot of sightings are near military researc bases like Area 51.

I'm pretty sure there is intelligent life in the universe. But the universe is so vast and the distances so great, I just don't see it likely.

Plus, every so called "proof" is some unclear video that doesn't really prove anything. And the most ridiculous ones are the ones that show bright lights in the sky. Why would aliens trying to remain unseen, be flying around with big lights advertising their presence?

There is no way by this point that 1. the government could keep that secret for that long and 2. that no person or scientist outside the US government has gotten any real evidence

OscarLevant said:

What's the point? There are photos, but skeptics doubt them. Consider the AAITIP videos released recently by the navy.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Moreover, there are other types of evidence. Read Dr. David Jacob's "Walking Among Us"

There are mountains of data on UFOs, and I"m talkin' the rational variety, not the woo variety.

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The photos don't prove anything, they are always so grainy, and never completely clear. And easily explained by man made objects. ANd in this day and age of technology and drones, any new video is easily explained by the flood of man made stuff flying around in the skies

And scientists would love coming across aliens. It would be unreal the research we could gain from having an alien, see how their body works. Would be awesome

Thoreau72 said:

A background in astrophysics does not necessarily mean one ends up with an open mind.

Being in denial is not a matter of intelligence or training.

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Believing in things without any evidence and thinking they are real is not having an open mind. Scientists want evidence. Everybody should want evidence. And I think most people here aren't denying that there is likely alien life out there, or that aliens could one day visit us. But there is no good proof. Anecdotal stories and grainy pictures is all we have, from humans notorious for believing in things not really there and being dishonest, or embellishing stories.

It is pretty close minded to be convinced aliens have visited earth without any concrete evidence. And the evidence is suspect, at best

I should add, evidence of UFOs does not mean alien life. It just means that the object was unidentified

Conceptually it is possible for an advanced civilization to travel in space. But we don't know or understand how they can travel the distances between stars with habitable planets for any number of reasons.... one of them being the lifespan of living beings. So perhaps they can do the trip in suspended animation and wake up have a visit. Then what? They take samples, do surveys and go back into suspended animation and wake up back at their home planet which has passed thousands of years. Unless space travel is time travel... this just doesn't make sense... let alone seem possible.

SanderO said:

Conceptually it is possible for an advanced civilization to travel in space. But we don't know or understand how they can travel the distances between stars with habitable planets for any number of reasons.... one of them being the lifespan of living beings. So perhaps they can do the trip in suspended animation and wake up have a visit. Then what? They take samples, do surveys and go back into suspended animation and wake up back at their home planet which has passed thousands of years. Unless space travel is time travel... this just doesn't make sense... let alone seem possible.

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The most likely first encounter with an alien species will be through robotic probes. After all, that is how we have chosen to explore space beyond Earth. Life forms that evolve on planets are not going to find space a very inviting place. It is a major technological challenge just to survive in that environment. Using robotic probes also makes the most sense if you are going to be traveling interstellar distances while traveling slower than the speed of light.

If there is intelligent life in the Milky Way galaxy, and we eventually do encounter them, it will most likely be either our or their robotic probe that makes first contact.

SanderO said:

Yes the gov has secrets.

Yes the gov will spin, lie, engage in PR rubbish and has unstated agendas.

You appear to me to show the signs of cognitive dissonance typically rejecting anything "official" or from US gov or mainstream media.

So explain this....

The UFO thing has been in the consciousness of society since the late 40s. Everyone's heard about it. So why has no private citizen found an artifact and not turned it over to the gov and called a press conference to display their find?

Click to expand...

It's my guess there has been lots of that, but hampered by the 'Men in Black".

Glitch said:

Consider this, in the 30 years CCD cameras have been around and the hundreds of millions of phones using them, not a single photograph of a alien spacecraft has ever surfaced. Nor has any evidence that extraterrestrial life exists has ever surfaced. Which makes those who believe in extraterrestrial UFO's completely nuts, bat-sh*t crazy, and in serious need of professional help.

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Glitch,
I am knee-deep in this 3-book series that tells the story of a massive government coverup involving aliens that visited Earth just before
WW II. It is just a story but it makes the coverup sound plausible.
But I do wonder how some people can be so obsessed with alien visitors and not be able to show credible proof of their visits.
Why do you think the show "X-Files" was so popular?

Not Alone Kindle Edition by Craig A. Falconer (Author)
Aliens exist, the government knows, and Dan McCarthy just found the proof. When Dan McCarthy stumbles upon a folder containing evidence of the conspiracy to end all conspiracies -- a top-level alien cover-up -- he leaks the files without a second thought.
The incredible truth revealed by Dan’s leak immediately captures the public’s imagination, but Dan’s relentless commitment to exposing the cover-up and forcing disclosure quickly earns him some enemies in high places.

jaypatriot said:

Glitch,
I am knee-deep in this 3-book series that tells the story of a massive government coverup involving aliens that visited Earth just before
WW II. It is just a story but it makes the coverup sound plausible.
But I do wonder how some people can be so obsessed with alien visitors and not be able to show credible proof of their visits.
Why do you think the show "X-Files" was so popular?

Not Alone Kindle Edition by Craig A. Falconer (Author)
Aliens exist, the government knows, and Dan McCarthy just found the proof. When Dan McCarthy stumbles upon a folder containing evidence of the conspiracy to end all conspiracies -- a top-level alien cover-up -- he leaks the files without a second thought.
The incredible truth revealed by Dan’s leak immediately captures the public’s imagination, but Dan’s relentless commitment to exposing the cover-up and forcing disclosure quickly earns him some enemies in high places.

Click to expand...

The mark of a good work of fiction is to make it seem credible. It is rather interesting in that most works of fiction that included extraterrestrial aliens prior to the 1950s and the beginning of the Space Race, involved aliens from within our solar system. From H.G. Wells "War of the Worlds" to Edgar Rice Burroughs "The Moon Men" and "John Carter on Mars" series. We didn't start thinking about aliens from outside our solar system until we developed human space travel.

I think a lot of people want to believe that intelligent life beyond our solar system exists. Which is fine, because it may. The problem comes in when they want those intelligent aliens to be visiting Earth. How would aliens even know about Earth? It isn't like we are in a crowded neighborhood of stars and planets. We are between two spiral arms, approximately two-third of the way from the center of the galaxy. The furthest any of our transmissions could have traveled is a maximum of 170 light years, which is a tiny distance compared to the size of our 100,000 light year diameter galaxy. So even if there were some super intelligent alien species somewhere in our Milky Way galaxy, how would they know we even existed?

Then there is the problem of transportation. Assuming they knew we were here, how would they get here? Would they spend the tens of thousands of years to travel to Earth themselves? Or would they send robots first, like we would?

Until an author can answer those questions credibly I'm afraid I can't enjoy any work of fiction involving extraterrestrial aliens, and movies that promote bad science, like "Interstellar," only serve to piss me off.

Glitch said:

The mark of a good work of fiction is to make it seem credible. It is rather interesting in that most works of fiction that included extraterrestrial aliens prior to the 1950s and the beginning of the Space Race, involved aliens from within our solar system. From H.G. Wells "War of the Worlds" to Edgar Rice Burroughs "The Moon Men" and "John Carter on Mars" series. We didn't start thinking about aliens from outside our solar system until we developed human space travel.

I think a lot of people want to believe that intelligent life beyond our solar system exists. Which is fine, because it may. The problem comes in when they want those intelligent aliens to be visiting Earth. How would aliens even know about Earth? It isn't like we are in a crowded neighborhood of stars and planets. We are between two spiral arms, approximately two-third of the way from the center of the galaxy. The furthest any of our transmissions could have traveled is a maximum of 170 light years, which is a tiny distance compared to the size of our 100,000 light year diameter galaxy. So even if there were some super intelligent alien species somewhere in our Milky Way galaxy, how would they know we even existed?

Then there is the problem of transportation. Assuming they knew we were here, how would they get here? Would they spend the tens of thousands of years to travel to Earth themselves? Or would they send robots first, like we would?

Until an author can answer those questions credibly I'm afraid I can't enjoy any work of fiction involving extraterrestrial aliens, and movies that promote bad science, like "Interstellar," only serve to piss me off.

Click to expand...

I guess that's why SF writers and movie directors need to rely on the concept of wormholes to get from one part of the galaxy to the other.
Either that or hibernation for thousands of years like that recent movie "Passengers".
I mean, who really understands how wormholes can make you transfer from one galaxy to another.
It's like understanding how quantum physics works.

SanderO said:

Yes the gov has secrets.

Yes the gov will spin, lie, engage in PR rubbish and has unstated agendas.

You appear to me to show the signs of cognitive dissonance typically rejecting anything "official" or from US gov or mainstream media.

So explain this....

The UFO thing has been in the consciousness of society since the late 40s. Everyone's heard about it. So why has no private citizen found an artifact and not turned it over to the gov and called a press conference to display their find?

Click to expand...

In every instance this has occured, military types, government types, confiscate and threaten them and their families with serious harm, if they mention it.

It's their modus operandi, and it works. We are finding a lot out by the testimonies of persons who swore to keep secret such things, when they are on their death beds, long after the gov confiscated the evidence. Apparently it boils down to a few things, as to why the gov wants UFOs to be secret.

1. Because their propulsion systems, if made known ( which are known ) would free the world of dependency on OIL.

2. Because if aliens are known to exist, it poses a problem for Christianity and religion.

3. Because they initially suppressed the subject in the 40s (when, after Roswell, UFO sightings leaped into the pubic consciousness) because of the Orson Wells's "War Of The Worlds" radio show which caused a huge panic in the 30s, and they didn't want to cause another such panic. AS the years passed, far removed from that panic and forgotten, the gov so invested in the cover up now won't allow it uncovered because they've invested so many years in covering up, and don't want to face the consequences of having done this for decades.

There is evidence they are gradually turning around on the subject, and releasing information, bit by bit, to the public ( the Navy's recent videos of UFOs in flight recorded by naval pilots ).

Watch two DVDs:

Greer's "Disclosure" and "Acknowledged" I believe they are on YouTube.


Also, read the book "Walking Among US" by Dr. David Jacob, books by him, Dr. John Mack and Bud Hopkins, all of whom have hypnotically regressed thousands of people from all over the world who, astonishly, tell the same story, over and over and over again.

No one on this forum can convince you. The only thing that will lead you to a place where you realize there is abundance of evidence where one can safely presume the existence of UFOs and aliens, is a burning curiosity, not to believe, per se, but to follow the evidence to some conclusion.

mike2810 said:

Has it ever occurred to you that your are simply not aware of your "cognitive dissonance'?

Ever wonder why programs like "Ancient Aliens" state most of their premises with "what if", "is it possible", without really proving anything.

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The TV shows are fodder for prime time TV, to sell soap and what not. Alien shows/Bigfoot, and what not, are NEVER going to prove anything, and the reason is if they did, that would be the end of the gravy train of such programs.


You simply must dig deeper than TV to find any serious information on the subject.

Also, most of us in UFology do not watch "ancient aliens". We want to know what is going on NOW.

jaypatriot said:

Glitch,
I am knee-deep in this 3-book series that tells the story of a massive government coverup involving aliens that visited Earth just before
WW II. It is just a story but it makes the coverup sound plausible.
But I do wonder how some people can be so obsessed with alien visitors and not be able to show credible proof of their visits.
Why do you think the show "X-Files" was so popular?

Not Alone Kindle Edition by Craig A. Falconer (Author)
Aliens exist, the government knows, and Dan McCarthy just found the proof. When Dan McCarthy stumbles upon a folder containing evidence of the conspiracy to end all conspiracies -- a top-level alien cover-up -- he leaks the files without a second thought.
The incredible truth revealed by Dan’s leak immediately captures the public’s imagination, but Dan’s relentless commitment to exposing the cover-up and forcing disclosure quickly earns him some enemies in high places.

Click to expand...

There's another leg of the UFO subject, and that is the regressed under hypnosis testimonies of thousands of persons who were adducted by aliens/ufos from all over the world who astonishly tell the same story, over and over and over again, giving us the idea that what they are saying is really happening. ( how could so many people have the identical hallucination? It defies logic ). .

The three prominent hypnotists are:

1. John Mack ( harvard psychiatrist )
2. Bud Hopkins
3. Dr. David Jacobs.


Listen to all of their lectures on YouTube, and real all of their book,s the lastest of which is "Walking Among US" by Jacobs. It's revolutionize your understanding of what is really going on in the world, behind the facade of what is visible.

Dr. Jacobs very logical premise is this:

Sightings of UFOs tell us nothing about what they are up to.

To find out what they are up to, find out what is going on inside the UFO.

Viola, testimonies of abductees, close encounters of the 4th kind.

jaypatriot said:

I guess that's why SF writers and movie directors need to rely on the concept of wormholes to get from one part of the galaxy to the other.
Either that or hibernation for thousands of years like that recent movie "Passengers".
I mean, who really understands how wormholes can make you transfer from one galaxy to another.
It's like understanding how quantum physics works.

Click to expand...

As I pointed out above, the problem with "worm holes" is that they are two connected black holes, each with between 3 and 10 solar masses. Science fiction conveniently ignores the gravitational effects that many solar masses has on everything around it. Some of the better science fiction books and movies I found are those that do not try to explain too much of the technology. For example, in the movie "Passenger" they talk about a fusion drive, but they don't go into any detail about how it works, just that is their main source of propulsion. That is a good thing, because inventively the author is going to get something wrong that ruins the "plausible deniability" science fiction requires.

It is possible that we may one day develop fusion drives. Equipped with such drives it would be possible to travel interstellar distances because they could refuel from the interstellar medium which consists primarily of hydrogen. The hydrogen is dispersed over huge distances, but by the time a spacecraft left a solar system they would be already traveling faster than 10% the speed of light and would be able to collect more hydrogen as it traveled faster. When traveling below relativistic speeds hydrogen fuel could be siphoned from gas giant planets. There is also the problem of time dilation when traveling vast distances at near the speed of light. The astronauts aboard a spacecraft traveling at 99.9% of speed of light could reach the Andromeda galaxy 2.5 million light years away and would only experience 25 years lapse. However, Earth would be 2.5 million years older by the time they arrived at the Andromeda galaxy. Even a short trip to our nearest star, Proxima Centauri 4.24 light years away the astronauts would only be a couple years older after they returned from their 8.5 year round trip as perceived from Earth.

The movie "Passenger" was one of the better science fiction movies for many reasons. The fact that they were traveling sub-light and took into consideration time dilation made it plausible. I also like how they didn't bother to explain the shields at all. They show them graphically, and you know that is what ultimately saves the ship from total destruction, but they never mention them. Furthermore, the faster they are going the less they will be able to see in front of the direction of travel because they can only sense things at the speed of light. Which makes the impact with the asteroid plausible, since the asteroid field could have moved into the ships path and the ship traveling at relativistic speeds would have been unable to maneuver around. The movie depicts the AI attempting to maneuver through the asteroid field. For the purposes of the story line, I'm willing to overlook the fact that asteroids are typically millions of miles apart and only bunch up like that in Hollywood movies. No movie is perfect, but even still "Passenger" was pretty good from an astrophysical point of view.

SanderO said:

Conceptually it is possible for an advanced civilization to travel in space. But we don't know or understand how they can travel the distances between stars with habitable planets for any number of reasons.... one of them being the lifespan of living beings. So perhaps they can do the trip in suspended animation and wake up have a visit. Then what? They take samples, do surveys and go back into suspended animation and wake up back at their home planet which has passed thousands of years. Unless space travel is time travel... this just doesn't make sense... let alone seem possible.

Click to expand...

So, what advanced civilizations are capable of, doing stuff that doesn't make sense to you, therefore, means it's not possible?

One thing I wouldn't do is try and second guess what aliens of advanced civilizations are up to, and why they do what they do.

Anyone who tries to do that is really setting his or herself up for erroneous thinking. Who the **** knows?


I'm not going to sit here and assume they haven't figured out some way to traverse the cosmos lickety split It would be arrogant of anyone, including scientists, to assume they cannot do it because science cannot comprehend it, or their level of knowledge doesn't allow for it.

It's hard to know what memes are buried in the subconscious of people who are exposed directly and subliminally to media. These memes may surface in hypnosis not because they are similar experiences but a subconscious meme.

I'd like to see the data on where these sightings and abductions are. I know they are in many countries.

I've read some of the authors you mention. I think they have confirmation bias and some of the accounts like the NYC ones are hard to swallow...

Building pyramids doesn't mean alien help.

I am waiting to see scientists jump on board... and I don't see that.

SanderO said:

It's hard to know what memes are buried in the subconscious of people who are exposed directly and subliminally to media. These memes may surface in hypnosis not because they are similar experiences but a subconscious meme.

I'd like to see the data on where these sightings and abductions are. I know they are in many countries.

I've read some of the authors you mention. I think they have confirmation bias and some of the accounts like the NYC ones are hard to swallow...

Building pyramids doesn't mean alien help.

I am waiting to see scientists jump on board... and I don't see that.

Click to expand...

You don't see that because you're not looking for it.

You are waiting for your favorite mainstream media talking head to announce this so that you can then see it. You are an uncurious person.

Thoreau72 said:

You don't see that because you're not looking for it.

You are waiting for your favorite mainstream media talking head to announce this so that you can then see it. You are an uncurious person.

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Believe what you want to. Trying to be open minded... my curious mind is not seeing anything that looks like proof of visitation. Still waiting for the evidence.

SanderO said:

Believe what you want to. Trying to be open minded... my curious mind is not seeing anything that looks like proof of visitation. Still waiting for the evidence.

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There is evidence that we have been visited by an object from another solar system, just not a living object.

In Depth | Oumuamua – NASA Solar System Exploration

Even traveling at the speed of 87.3 kilometers per second it will take 1,271,120 years to reach the nearest star 4.24 light years away. Who knows how many hundreds of millions or even billions of years the asteroid had been traveling before reaching our solar system? The distances between stars is more vast than most people are able to comprehend. Our first interstellar craft will certainly not be manned, considering the amount of time it will take to reach its destination. It is reasonable to presume that the same thing would be true for any sufficiently advanced alien species.

I think we will eventually find that life is fairly common throughout the universe, but intelligent life will be more rare for a number of different reasons but primarily stability. Judging from the history of life on this planet (the only example we have) it took us 3.8 billion years to evolve our current level of intelligence. Which automatically eliminates all planets orbiting O, B, A, and most F type stars since they don't live that long. M type stars last for hundreds of billions of years, and longer, but they also are exceedingly dim and tend to be flare-stars (like Proxima Centauri). To be in the "habitable zone" of an M type star the planet would be uncomfortably close to the star, within range of the solar flares. That would limit the possibility of life. The best candidates for intelligent extraterrestrial life will be found around G and K type stars (like Alpha Centauri A & B). That would be approximately 15% of the stars in the Milky Way galaxy. Additionally, the star would have to be approximately the same age as our sun if they are going to exist at the same time we exist. It is very probable that intelligent life could have developed billions of years ago and has since become extinct. Or will be developed again billions of years after we become extinct. It would be a mistake to think that intelligent alien life, if it existed at all, exists only just now.

nota bene said:

If You Aren’t Paying Attention to the Latest UFO News, You Really, Really Should Be

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Yes, I watched the Elizondo series. It offers prima facie evidence for the existence of craft 'not of this earth'.

It is possible that some of the things seen over the years are products of our reverse engineering efforts at Area 51 and elsewhere, but I think that if the events chronicled by Elizondo were in that category, he would eventually have been told that. Just a guess.

With the knowledge gained over the last few years with the declassification of Bluebook and other material, it becomes an absurd statement to claim we have not been visited.

Thoreau72 said:

Yes, I watched the Elizondo series. It offers prima facie evidence for the existence of craft 'not of this earth'.

It is possible that some of the things seen over the years are products of our reverse engineering efforts at Area 51 and elsewhere, but I think that if the events chronicled by Elizondo were in that category, he would eventually have been told that. Just a guess.

With the knowledge gained over the last few years with the declassification of Bluebook and other material, it becomes an absurd statement to claim we have not been visited.

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I know only that what I saw in 1976 has many similarities to what is being described now, especially the movement of the craft.

nota bene said:

I know only that what I saw in 1976 has many similarities to what is being described now, especially the movement of the craft.

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I can't remember the year I saw it, and it only lasted for a few seconds at night, but it was not a meteor and it was much too fast to be man made, and its trajectory was not downward.

Wow, Glitch really knows the subject, and I thoroughly enjoyed reading his posts.

NWO_Spook said:

Wow, Glitch really knows the subject, and I thoroughly enjoyed reading his posts.

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I became interested in astronomy and astrophysics after watching the lunar landing in July 1969. I have been trying to keep up-to-date on the latest discoveries and developments ever since. A lot of new discoveries have been made since CCDs were developed in 1990, and it has changed how we look at the universe. My primary focus recently has been to correct our old out-dated notion of the maximum mass of white dwarf stars established in 1931 by Chandrasekhar. It was a good estimate, but he failed to consider stars that rotate or have a magnetic field, which is every star we have observed thus far. Stars that rapidly rotate or have strong magnetic fields will be able to siphon more material from their companion than Chandrasekhar's maximum limit of 1.44 solar masses. Estimates place the range between 2.3 and 2.8 solar masses for a rapidly rotating highly magnetic white dwarf.

I created a thread on the subject last year: New Mass Limit for White Dwarfs

Glitch said:

I became interested in astronomy and astrophysics after watching the lunar landing in July 1969. I have been trying to keep up-to-date on the latest discoveries and developments ever since. A lot of new discoveries have been made since CCDs were developed in 1990, and it has changed how we look at the universe. My primary focus recently has been to correct our old out-dated notion of the maximum mass of white dwarf stars established in 1931 by Chandrasekhar. It was a good estimate, but he failed to consider stars that rotate or have a magnetic field, which is every star we have observed thus far. Stars that rapidly rotate or have strong magnetic fields will be able to siphon more material from their companion that Chandrasekhar's maximum limit of 1.44 solar masses. Estimates place the range between 2.3 and 2.8 solar masses for a rapidly rotating highly magnetic white dwarf.

I created a thread on the subject last year: New Mass Limit for White Dwarfs

Click to expand...

Kudos to you, Sir. I admire people in your field and I wish I possessed the mathematical skills for such studies. I will read your thread with enthusiasm.