Jeffrey Epstein Case: Expert Hired By His Family Suggests Doubt On Suicide Finding

truthatallcost · Oct 30, 2019

A forensic pathologist hired by Jeffrey Epstein's family said he believes Epstein's autopsy suggests homicide rather than suicide. But New York City's chief medical examiner stands by her conclusion that Epstein died by hanging himself.

Michael Baden is a private pathologist who was briefly the chief medical examiner for New York City in the late 1970s, before going on to become a celebrity forensic witness. He has weighed in on scores of high-profile cases, including as a defense witness for O.J. Simpson.

Baden told Fox News on Wednesday he believes the evidence points to homicide rather than suicide in Epstein's death because of three fractures of Epstein's hyoid bone and thyroid cartilage, injuries he says are more indicative of homicidal strangulation than suicide.

Epstein's brother, Mark, "feels he's getting the runaround" from authorities and is still awaiting the results of other evidence testing, Baden said. Baden had appeared on the show at the request of the family, he said.

But on Wednesday, New York City Chief Medical Examiner Barbara Sampson, whose office performed the autopsy, reiterated her findings.

"Our investigation concluded that the cause of Mr. Epstein's death was hanging and the manner of death was suicide," Sampson said in a statement.

"We stand by that determination. We continue to share information around the medical investigation with Mr. Epstein's family, their representatives, and their pathology consultant. The original medical investigation was thorough and complete. There is no reason for a second medical investigation by our office."

Conspiracy theories have swirled since Epstein's death. Guards at the jail had not checked on Epstein for several hours before he was found unresponsive. The disgraced financier had been moved off of suicide watch and did not have a cellmate.

Fractured hyoid bones have been a subject of scrutiny long before the Epstein case, as the indication of neck trauma has been associated with both strangulation and hanging.

Pathologist Hired By Jeffrey Epstein's Brother Says Signs Point To Homicide : NPR

Do you believe in a conspiracy theory that explains Epstein's death? Please elaborate.

Personally, I don't believe Epstein committed suicide. His personality type was of a predator, but a cowardly predator, one who used his money and connections to gain access to underage girls. He never once displayed an ounce of bravery or recklessness. I believe that suicide was out of the realm of Epstein's personality, particularly a form as violent as throwing himself off his bunk bed in hopes of breaking his own neck. Jeffrey Epstein was murdered.

trouble13 · Oct 30, 2019

truthatallcost said:
Do you believe in a conspiracy theory that explains Epstein's death? Please elaborate.

Personally, I don't believe Epstein committed suicide. His personality type was of a predator, but a cowardly predator, one who used his money and connections to gain access to underage girls. He never once displayed an ounce of bravery or recklessness. I believe that suicide was out of the realm of Epstein's personality, particularly a form as violent as throwing himself off his bunk bed in hopes of breaking his own neck. Jeffrey Epstein was murdered.

I think its very possible he was murdered. I think theres too many missing blanks in everything to rule it out.
The hyoid bone that is being discussed if i remember correctly i read is found broken in about 1/3rd of suicides. It has to do with the location of the bone in relation to the placement of the noose. The noose has to be very high on the persons neck to the point that its typically difficult for it to be done by the victim. Its more likely to be broken during a strangulation. That aspect of it is inconclusive by itself.

However when you take into account the other mitigating factors surrounding his death, all combined i think its reasonsble to be suspicious of foul play.

No cell mate, no guard checks, no camera footage, its almost all too perfect. No too mention how difficult it must of been to hang yourself from a bunk that probally only suts 5' off the floor. It would tske a long time to choke yourself to death in that manner and its hard to fathom him being able to overcome his survival instinct and not simply stand up to take the pressure off the noose.

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Moot · Oct 30, 2019

Do you believe in a conspiracy theory that explains Epstein's death? Please elaborate.

No, I don't think Epstein was murdered. Michael Baden, is more show than substance and will say whatever his clients or TV hosts want him to say.

"...He claimed a collection of neck fractures in Epstein’s hyoid bone and thyroid cartilage “are extremely unusual in suicidal hangings and could occur much more commonly in homicidal strangulation.”

“I’ve not seen in 50 years where that occurred in a suicidal hanging case,” Baden said.

Although more common in homicidal strangulation cases, some studies have found that hyoid and thyroid fractures are not rare in suicidal hangings.

A 2000 study in Australia found fractures in nearly half the 40 suicide cases it examined and said they were even more common in older victims and men; in fact, 15 percent had fractures of both the hyoid and the thyroid. And a 2010 study out of Thailand found such fractures in 25 percent of the confirmed suicides it reviewed.

NYC Medical Examiner Dismisses ‘Homicide’ Claim by Dr. Michael Baden – DNyuz

trouble13 · Oct 30, 2019

Moot said:
No, I don't think Epstein was murdered. Michael Baden, is more show than substance and will say whatever his clients or TV hosts want him to say.

"...He claimed a collection of neck fractures in Epstein’s hyoid bone and thyroid cartilage “are extremely unusual in suicidal hangings and could occur much more commonly in homicidal strangulation.”

“I’ve not seen in 50 years where that occurred in a suicidal hanging case,” Baden said.

Although more common in homicidal strangulation cases, some studies have found that hyoid and thyroid fractures are not rare in suicidal hangings.

A 2000 study in Australia found fractures in nearly half the 40 suicide cases it examined and said they were even more common in older victims and men; in fact, 15 percent had fractures of both the hyoid and the thyroid. And a 2010 study out of Thailand found such fractures in 25 percent of the confirmed suicides it reviewed.

NYC Medical Examiner Dismisses ‘Homicide’ Claim by Dr. Michael Baden – DNyuz

What you're saying is a bit missleading. Its true that sometimes the hyoid bone is btoken during a suicide but that typically is when someone jumps off of something to do it.

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Moot · Oct 30, 2019

trouble13 said:
What you're saying is a bit missleading. Its true that sometimes the hyoid bone is btoken during a suicide but that typically is when someone jumps off of something to do it.

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In the link I posted it mentions several studies that say fractures of the hyoid bone is not rare....

"...Although more common in homicidal strangulation cases, some studies have found that hyoid and thyroid fractures are not rare in suicidal hangings.

A 2000 study in Australia found fractures in nearly half the 40 suicide cases it examined and said they were even more common in older victims and men; in fact, 15 percent had fractures of both the hyoid and the thyroid. And a 2010 study out of Thailand found such fractures in 25 percent of the confirmed suicides it reviewed....

So if given a choice of what to believe...between several scholarly studies or a show quack...I'm gonna have to go with the former on this one.