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Is the Whistleblower "Complaint" Actually an Intelligence Agency Conspiracy Plot?

Captain Adverse

Captain Adverse

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I am posting this "theory" where it belongs at this point in time, the "Conspiracy Theories" sub-forum.

I do not know if anyone else has considered this possibility yet.

However, after reviewing media sources and actions, party political actions, and the actual whistleblower complaint, I have come to suspect that this is a new Intelligence Agency conspiracy to undermine the current Administration.

That a cabal of CIA members (perhaps Brennan loyalists?) who might also have been connected to the original Russia Collusion plot, have been working to create a "bombshell" to derail the current Administration.

I present Exhibit A, the Whistleblower Complaint:

http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/09/26/20190812_-_whistleblower_complaint_unclass.pdf

Look at this report carefully. What do you see?

It is a highly professional, step by step presentation; complete with footnotes and analysis of each point.

Note also that all throughout the complaint, the author is clear that he, himself, had no direct access to the subject material. It was all passed on to him by unnamed sources "concerned" about the President's "illegal actions."

IMHO this is NOT the work of a single person, seeking protection as a whistleblower.

It looks more like something that was worked on in conjunction with various individuals. Agency(?) members who collated the information from intelligence sources (spies?); who then discussed and revised it until it was ready for "presentation" by the selected front-man?

It is not a single "smoking gun" item. It is a hatchet job designed for one thing only, give the Impeachment movement the ammunition it needed.

Now, I am not ready to say that Trump is innocent of possible attempts to undermine Biden. I'll leave that to Constitutional scholars like Alan Derschowitz and Andrew Napolitano to argue over.

But if this "Conspiracy Theory" turns out to be in any way true?

Then I think this is a deadly dangerous precedent as well as a warning of the power we have given our Intelligence community over our society. Power that can be used to undermine ANY occupant of the Oval Office, Democrat, Republican, Third Party.

What say you?
 
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:lamo

Ridiculous.
 
Captain Adverse said:
<snip>

Then I think this is a deadly dangerous precedent as well as a warning of the power we have given our Intelligence community over our society. Power that can be used to undermine ANY occupant of the Oval Office, Democrat, Republican, Third Party.

What say you?
Click to expand...

Trump is a dangerous precedent as a president. There has been no prior equal we can readily name. He is an ongoing threat to everything America stands for, and he has severely damaged America's standing in the world.

Sometimes extreme measures are warranted. You have to cut out the cancer before it kills the host.
 
Captain Adverse said:
I am posting this "theory" where it belongs at this point in time, the "Conspiracy Theories" sub-forum.

I do not know if anyone else has considered this possibility yet.

However, after reviewing media sources and actions, party political actions, and the actual whistleblower complaint, I have come to suspect that this is a new Intelligence Agency conspiracy to undermine the current Administration.

That a cabal of CIA members loyal to Mr. Brennan, and who were also possibly connected to the original Russia Collusion plot, have been working to create a "bombshell" to derail the current Administration.

I present Exhibit A, the Whistleblower Complaint:

http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/09/26/20190812_-_whistleblower_complaint_unclass.pdf

Look at this report carefully. What do you see?

It is a highly professional, step by step presentation; complete with footnotes and analysis of each point.

Note also that all throughout the complaint, the author is clear that he, himself, had no direct access to the subject material. It was all passed on to him by unnamed sources, "concerned" about the President's "illegal actions."

IMHO this is NOT the work of a single person, seeking protection as a whistleblower.

It looks more like something that was worked on in conjunction with various individuals. Agency members who collated the information from intelligence sources (spies?); who then discussed and revised it until it was ready for "presentation" by the selected front-man.

It is not a single "smoking gun" item. It is a hatchet job designed for one thing only, give the Impeachment movement the ammunition it needed.

Now, I am not ready to say that Trump is innocent of possible attempts to undermine Biden. I'll leave that to Constitutional scholars like Alan Derschowitz and Andrew Napolitano to argue over.

But if this "Conspiracy Theory" turns out to be in any way true?

Then I think this is a deadly dangerous precedent as well as a warning of the power we have given our Intelligence community over our society. Power that can be used to undermine ANY occupant of the Oval Office, Democrat, Republican, Third Party.

What say you?
Click to expand...

Nah, it's Trump's attempt to circumvent the law, exploit a foreign country for his own political game, and completely illegal and unconstitutional.
 
Your posts always belong here, and here they will stay.

You do realize that when your only defense is "but it's a conspiracy!", you're near rock bottom. Next would be civil war over fake news.

At some point you just gotta Occam's Razor this people. Trump keeps saying on air, terrible things...for 3 years, busted doing all sorts of terrible things...but it's someone else's fault. It's a great American tragedy that people are falling for right wing media this hard.

Let the investigation play out for you cry.
 
It did strike me as odd that Pelosi was fully on board for the "official impeachment inquiry kickoff show" prior to the release of either the telephone transcript or the whistleblower's report on the matter. That alone seems to indicate that this was more orchestrated (in advance?) than we are being told about.

As with the Trump Tower meeting with the Russians to get dirt on Hillary, there was no dirt actually presented or accepted but there was the (clear?) implication that it would have been welcomed should it ever have materialized. This also involves the very same intel agencies that would otherwise be occupied "getting to the bottom of" the origination of the 2016 Trump campaign surveillance and FISA court rulings allowing that to happen. Of course, if those same intel agencies had more urgent impeachment business (a true constitutional crisis!) to support then they would likely be far too busy to dig around for that older dirt.

As a byproduct it also may well spell doom for the (more moderate?) currently front-running Biden campaign opening up the DNC POTUS nomination for a much further left candidate (like Warren?). Even if the Senate does not fall for this latest "attempted collusion" set-up and remove Trump from office, Trump will likely be weakened enough by the House impeachment scandal for even a far left demorat to get into the White House in 2020.
 
The Democratic Party is destroying our government. They have now made it so NO president can ever have a confidential conversation with any foreign leader as members of the other political party can demand fully divulging everything said.

The USA could never again survive a war of national survival we were in. Democrats in government and the press/MSM would give every battle plan, every security code, every communication of any secrets to the enemy, tripping over themselves to be the first to do so.
 
The "hearsay whistle blower" is a spy, literally a spy. S/he divulged national security secrets about Russia with Ukraine to Russia.
 
Captain Adverse said:
That a cabal of CIA members (perhaps Brennan loyalists?) who might also have been connected to the original Russia Collusion plot, have been working to create a "bombshell" to derail the current Administration.
....
Now, I am not ready to say that Trump is innocent of possible attempts to undermine Biden. I'll leave that to Constitutional scholars like Alan Derschowitz and Andrew Napolitano to argue over.

But if this "Conspiracy Theory" turns out to be in any way true?

Then I think this is a deadly dangerous precedent as well as a warning of the power we have given our Intelligence community over our society. Power that can be used to undermine ANY occupant of the Oval Office, Democrat, Republican, Third Party.

What say you?
Click to expand...

The hole in your theory IMO is the whistleblower complaint was nice, but it really didn't add much to what we saw in the official notes for the phone call. So this "cabal" connected to RUSSIA had a really simple job - reveal Trump in his own words, as recorded by people in his administration tasked with doing a routine job. That's it. That's roughly 95% of the job.

So the deadly dangerous precedent is simply letting the President talk and when he does something corrupt, getting the president's own words out to the public. I'm OK with that, actually.

The other thing that's frustrating here is how would/could you distinguish between a "cabal" engaged in a devious plot, a deep state coup, versus just an American who was genuinely alarmed at what the President said and how he was performing, or not performing, his duties as President?
 
Captain Adverse said:
I am posting this "theory" where it belongs at this point in time, the "Conspiracy Theories" sub-forum.

I do not know if anyone else has considered this possibility yet.

However, after reviewing media sources and actions, party political actions, and the actual whistleblower complaint, I have come to suspect that this is a new Intelligence Agency conspiracy to undermine the current Administration.

That a cabal of CIA members (perhaps Brennan loyalists?) who might also have been connected to the original Russia Collusion plot, have been working to create a "bombshell" to derail the current Administration.

I present Exhibit A, the Whistleblower Complaint:

http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/09/26/20190812_-_whistleblower_complaint_unclass.pdf

Look at this report carefully. What do you see?

It is a highly professional, step by step presentation; complete with footnotes and analysis of each point.

Note also that all throughout the complaint, the author is clear that he, himself, had no direct access to the subject material. It was all passed on to him by unnamed sources "concerned" about the President's "illegal actions."

IMHO this is NOT the work of a single person, seeking protection as a whistleblower.

It looks more like something that was worked on in conjunction with various individuals. Agency(?) members who collated the information from intelligence sources (spies?); who then discussed and revised it until it was ready for "presentation" by the selected front-man?

It is not a single "smoking gun" item. It is a hatchet job designed for one thing only, give the Impeachment movement the ammunition it needed.

Now, I am not ready to say that Trump is innocent of possible attempts to undermine Biden. I'll leave that to Constitutional scholars like Alan Derschowitz and Andrew Napolitano to argue over.

But if this "Conspiracy Theory" turns out to be in any way true?

Then I think this is a deadly dangerous precedent as well as a warning of the power we have given our Intelligence community over our society. Power that can be used to undermine ANY occupant of the Oval Office, Democrat, Republican, Third Party.

What say you?
Click to expand...

It is certainly part of a conspiracy, but I don't think it is an "intelligence agency conspiracy". I think this is more likely a piece of work by House Dems/staff and the Lawfare Alliance members who are on the House staff.

The only indication of any other intelligence person would point to the ICIG. He is the one who disregarded the very clear ICWPA (Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act) and presented the complaint as "credible" and "urgent". The DOJ OLC (Office of Legal Counsel) showed quite clearly how the ICIG was wrong in that regard.

Bottom line, this is another attempt by the House Dems and various other Trump haters to advance their impeachment narrative and to produce talking points and sound bites for the Trump hating media to use in their efforts to defeat Trump in 2020.

And yes...this IS a deadly dangerous precedent. If they succeed in abusing their Congressional powers for political purposes with no push back from the American citizens, we WILL see this tactic used against any...and every...future non-Democrat President.
 
joko104 said:
The "hearsay whistle blower" is a spy, literally a spy. S/he divulged national security secrets about Russia with Ukraine to Russia.
Click to expand...

Right, because spies always send their information through official, legally authorized channels, securely, within the intelligence community, in their own country, to their coworkers. OFF WITH HIS HEAD!
 
joko104 said:
The "hearsay whistle blower" is a spy, literally a spy. S/he divulged national security secrets about Russia with Ukraine to Russia.
Click to expand...

The spy is a "he". We know this from the NYT article that outed him as a CIA officer.

The whistle-blower who revealed that President Trump sought foreign help for his re-election and that the White House sought to cover it up is a C.I.A. officer who was detailed to work at the White House at one point, according to three people familiar with his identity.

The man has since returned to the C.I.A., the people said. Little else is known about him. His complaint made public Thursday suggested he was an analyst by training and made clear he was steeped in details of American foreign policy toward Europe, demonstrating a sophisticated understanding of Ukrainian politics and at least some knowledge of the law.

Whistle-Blower Is a C.I.A. Officer Who Was Detailed to the White House - The New York Times
Click to expand...
 
Mycroft said:
It is certainly part of a conspiracy, but I don't think it is an "intelligence agency conspiracy". I think this is more likely a piece of work by House Dems/staff and the Lawfare Alliance members who are on the House staff.

The only indication of any other intelligence person would point to the ICIG. He is the one who disregarded the very clear ICWPA (Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act) and presented the complaint as "credible" and "urgent". The DOJ OLC (Office of Legal Counsel) showed quite clearly how the ICIG was wrong in that regard.

Bottom line, this is another attempt by the House Dems and various other Trump haters to advance their impeachment narrative and to produce talking points and sound bites for the Trump hating media to use in their efforts to defeat Trump in 2020.

And yes...this IS a deadly dangerous precedent. If they succeed in abusing their Congressional powers for political purposes with no push back from the American citizens, we WILL see this tactic used against any...and every...future non-Democrat President.
Click to expand...

That's nuts. A conspiracy of essentially publishing the President in his own words, engaged in corrupt acts. Awful precedent....

It's frightening that one of the possibilities mentioned isn't that the President is corrupt, got caught. The End.
 
Captain Adverse said:
I am posting this "theory" where it belongs at this point in time, the "Conspiracy Theories" sub-forum.
Click to expand...

Did you come up with that on your own?

If you did your kind of a scary protagonist.

Try this one out, England was behind getting Obama's birth certificate.

When he was born, Kenya was part of the UK.

MI5 has had a presence in Hawaii even prior to WW2.

by putting a British citizen in the Whitehouse MI5 could work on returning America to British control.

The Mueller report stemmed from a manuscript about Russia which came from a ex-MI5 agent.

The whole time the UK has claimed to be an ally they have secretly been working on overthrowing the American government

It all lines up. (Copywrite Dick Tornado September 2019)
 
JasperL said:
That's nuts. A conspiracy of essentially publishing the President in his own words, engaged in corrupt acts. Awful precedent....

It's frightening that one of the possibilities mentioned isn't that the President is corrupt, got caught. The End.
Click to expand...

Any notion of "corrupt acts" is purely spin generated by the members of the conspiracy. Heck, we've seen this conspiracy in action for more than 2 years. This latest attempt is no different than all the others.
 
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ttwtt78640;1070657707[B said:
]It did strike me as odd that Pelosi was fully on board for the "official impeachment inquiry kickoff show" prior to the release of either the telephone transcript or the whistleblower's report on the matter. That alone seems to indicate that this was more orchestrated (in advance?) than we are being told about. [/B]

As with the Trump Tower meeting with the Russians to get dirt on Hillary, there was no dirt actually presented or accepted but there was the (clear?) implication that it would have been welcomed should it ever have materialized. This also involves the very same intel agencies that would otherwise be occupied "getting to the bottom of" the origination of the 2016 Trump campaign surveillance and FISA court rulings allowing that to happen. Of course, if those same intel agencies had more urgent impeachment business (a true constitutional crisis!) to support then they would likely be far too busy to dig around for that older dirt.

As a byproduct it also may well spell doom for the (more moderate?) currently front-running Biden campaign opening up the DNC POTUS nomination for a much further left candidate (like Warren?). Even if the Senate does not fall for this latest "attempted collusion" set-up and remove Trump from office, Trump will likely be weakened enough by the House impeachment scandal for even a far left demorat to get into the White House in 2020.
Click to expand...
Schiff had the "whistleblower" complaint since Aug. 12, and I bet anything that Pelosi had it, too. You are spot on.
 
Acadia said:
Schiff had the "whistleblower" complaint since Aug. 12, and I bet anything that Pelosi had it, too. You are spot on.
Click to expand...

They may well have helped to write it.
 
What's weirded me out is that this entire story is based on unnamed, unknown sources. I'm always rather suspicious of that. Regarding the actual question of a crime, there doesn't seem to be any. There is no hard evidence that the President was attempting to get Ukraine to influence the elections at all, rather he wanted to investigate Joe Biden and Hunter Biden regarding corruption. The question we should be asking is: What prompted this investigation?
 
Captain Adverse said:
I am posting this "theory" where it belongs at this point in time, the "Conspiracy Theories" sub-forum.

I do not know if anyone else has considered this possibility yet.

However, after reviewing media sources and actions, party political actions, and the actual whistleblower complaint, I have come to suspect that this is a new Intelligence Agency conspiracy to undermine the current Administration.

That a cabal of CIA members (perhaps Brennan loyalists?) who might also have been connected to the original Russia Collusion plot, have been working to create a "bombshell" to derail the current Administration.

I present Exhibit A, the Whistleblower Complaint:

http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/09/26/20190812_-_whistleblower_complaint_unclass.pdf

Look at this report carefully. What do you see?

It is a highly professional, step by step presentation; complete with footnotes and analysis of each point.

Note also that all throughout the complaint, the author is clear that he, himself, had no direct access to the subject material. It was all passed on to him by unnamed sources "concerned" about the President's "illegal actions."

IMHO this is NOT the work of a single person, seeking protection as a whistleblower.

It looks more like something that was worked on in conjunction with various individuals. Agency(?) members who collated the information from intelligence sources (spies?); who then discussed and revised it until it was ready for "presentation" by the selected front-man?

It is not a single "smoking gun" item. It is a hatchet job designed for one thing only, give the Impeachment movement the ammunition it needed.

Now, I am not ready to say that Trump is innocent of possible attempts to undermine Biden. I'll leave that to Constitutional scholars like Alan Derschowitz and Andrew Napolitano to argue over.

But if this "Conspiracy Theory" turns out to be in any way true?

Then I think this is a deadly dangerous precedent as well as a warning of the power we have given our Intelligence community over our society. Power that can be used to undermine ANY occupant of the Oval Office, Democrat, Republican, Third Party.

What say you?
Click to expand...

So you are taking the "it does not have to be true, just create doubt" angle? Trump has admitted most of it already and is claiming there is nothing wrong . Maybe he is in on the scheme too. :lamo
 
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ttwtt78640 said:
They may well have helped to write it.
Click to expand...

Likely the "whistleblower" did not write it. Who fed the WB the information and who helped him write it and who got it to Schiffty and why was it held for 5 weeks??
One thing is for certain; the complaint and the phone transcript do not mirror each other.
 
iguanaman said:
So you are taking the "it does not have to be true, just create doubt" angle? Trump has admitted most of it already and claiming there is nothing wrong . Maybe he is in on the scheme too. :lamo
Click to expand...

Not quite.

Trump did present the unredacted transcript. I have already discussed my opinion on that document in other threads.

But this "whistleblower complaint" uses that document to create suspicion via innuendo and interpretations. Making allegations of "suspect actions" based on it in order to create a reason for the Democrats to "investigate."

There is nothing in the "complaint" except allegations of possible "wrongdoing."

Taken at face value, Trump did nothing wrong. Add slants to it, he is doing "something" worthy of impeachment.
 
Acadia said:
Likely the "whistleblower" did not write it. Who fed the WB the information and who helped him write it and who got it to Schiffty and why was it held for 5 weeks??
One thing is for certain; the complaint and the phone transcript do not mirror each other.
Click to expand...

They are close enough for government work. ;)

BTW, you don't want so much detail that the source(s) can be precisely pinpointed.
 
Captain Adverse said:
I am posting this "theory" where it belongs at this point in time, the "Conspiracy Theories" sub-forum.
I do not know if anyone else has considered this possibility yet.
However, after reviewing media sources and actions, party political actions, and the actual whistleblower complaint, I have come to suspect that this is a new Intelligence Agency conspiracy to undermine the current Administration.
That a cabal of CIA members (perhaps Brennan loyalists?) who might also have been connected to the original Russia Collusion plot, have been working to create a "bombshell" to derail the current Administration.
I present Exhibit A, the Whistleblower Complaint:
http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/09/26/20190812_-_whistleblower_complaint_unclass.pdf
Look at this report carefully. What do you see?
It is a highly professional, step by step presentation; complete with footnotes and analysis of each point.
Note also that all throughout the complaint, the author is clear that he, himself, had no direct access to the subject material. It was all passed on to him by unnamed sources "concerned" about the President's "illegal actions."
IMHO this is NOT the work of a single person, seeking protection as a whistleblower.
It looks more like something that was worked on in conjunction with various individuals. Agency(?) members who collated the information from intelligence sources (spies?); who then discussed and revised it until it was ready for "presentation" by the selected front-man?
It is not a single "smoking gun" item. It is a hatchet job designed for one thing only, give the Impeachment movement the ammunition it needed.
Now, I am not ready to say that Trump is innocent of possible attempts to undermine Biden. I'll leave that to Constitutional scholars like Alan Derschowitz and Andrew Napolitano to argue over.
But if this "Conspiracy Theory" turns out to be in any way true?
Then I think this is a deadly dangerous precedent as well as a warning of the power we have given our Intelligence community over our society. Power that can be used to undermine ANY occupant of the Oval Office, Democrat, Republican, Third Party.

What say you?
Click to expand...


Looking at it from the point of all the discrepancies (further below) between the WB complaint and the transcript, it seems to me like only a very small group of people (maybe even only 2 or 3 people) concocted the story. If agencies had been involved, I can't help but think that at least 1 person would have had access to the actual phone transcript.

But from the discrepancies it looks exactly like someone was given only partial info to which someone else added bits to fill the gaps.

The discrepancies so far are:

- WH officials tried to hide Trump's phone conversations with Zelensky

- request to turn over DNC servers while only CrowdStrike was referenced in the conversation

- Diplomat Volker tried to do damage control regarding Giuliani/Ukraine when in fact he had requested Giuliani to meet the Ukrainians

- suggestion to Zelensky to keep the present prosecutor general when this wasn't even mentioned in the conversation

- the state department official mentioned to have been in on the call denies that claim.
 
Damn! Another thread on this matter. My head is spinning.
 
I have just heard two early morning conservative talk show hosts say the following:


1. The whistleblower does not quality as a genuine whistleblower in the opinion of many impartial observers.

2. The alleged whistleblower qualifies more as a spy.

3. The alleged whistleblower should testify in public. We should know who s/he is.

4. One observer has pointed out that presidential telephone calls have never been considered to be of concern to the intelligence community.


*****

I agree with those two hosts.

Many Americans are disgusted by this latest move by the President's enemies. They were disappointed by the special prosecutor's report. They are now fishing around for something else to get him.

In the meantime, truly serious national issues go unresolved.

There are many good Democrats. I assume that they are embarrassed by their party's behavior.
 
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