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Is the Whistleblower "Complaint" Actually an Intelligence Agency Conspiracy Plot?

I just remembered this as I was walking to dinner: the entire situation has changed. The first we heard of this was that the President had talked to a foreign leader and made a promise to them. People were speculating that it was Putin and whatnot, but now it has utterly changed and bears virtually no resemblance to the first story we were told. Now all of a sudden, its that the President talked to the Ukrainian President about investigate Joe and Hunter Biden. There is nothing similar about those two stories besides the President talking to a foreign leader.
 
I just remembered this as I was walking to dinner: the entire situation has changed. The first we heard of this was that the President had talked to a foreign leader and made a promise to them. People were speculating that it was Putin and whatnot, but now it has utterly changed and bears virtually no resemblance to the first story we were told. Now all of a sudden, its that the President talked to the Ukrainian President about investigate Joe and Hunter Biden. There is nothing similar about those two stories besides the President talking to a foreign leader.
 
TheParser said:
I have just heard two early morning conservative talk show hosts say the following:


1. The whistleblower does not quality as a genuine whistleblower in the opinion of many impartial observers.

2. The alleged whistleblower qualifies more as a spy.

3. The alleged whistleblower should testify in public. We should know who s/he is.

4. One observer has pointed out that presidential telephone calls have never been considered to be of concern to the intelligence community.


*****

I agree with those two hosts.

Many Americans are disgusted by this latest move by the President's enemies. They were disappointed by the special prosecutor's report. They are now fishing around for something else to get him.

In the meantime, truly serious national issues go unresolved.

There are many good Democrats. I assume that they are embarrassed by their party's behavior.
Click to expand...

All is not lost.

While it is true that Congress is paralyzed by the Dem's obsession about Trump...so much so, that they refuse to deal with critical legislation...or even non-critical stuff like the Dreamers...Trump IS dealing with critical issues even while he is under constant attack by those haters.

For example...

Because of his efforts with Mexico, the number of people crossing the border to claim asylum has dropped 60% from the record highs of last May. Those numbers will be dropping even more when future illegal immigrants realize that Trump is serious about ending catch and release...as he will next week.

The US and Japan have taken one more step toward finalizing a very important trade deal which will not only benefit both countries...Abe has proven to be a tough negotiator (the kind Trump likes)...but it will be another step in dismantling China's supply chain and forcing them to finally work to come to an agreement with the US about their illegal trade practices.

These are just two of the very important things Trump has accomplished this week, alone, while also dealing with the onslaught from the Dems and Trump haters. And guess what...that onslaught is already falling apart.

SCALE-OF-MAGANOMICS-2.jpg
 
ttwtt78640 said:
They are close enough for government work. ;)

BTW, you don't want so much detail that the source(s) can be precisely pinpointed.
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Ah, how could I forget the the axiom I've used so many times, "Good enough for government work"!
 
Mycroft said:
All is not lost.

While it is true that Congress is paralyzed by the Dem's obsession about Trump...so much so, that they refuse to deal with critical legislation...or even non-critical stuff like the Dreamers...Trump IS dealing with critical issues even while he is under constant attack by those haters.

For example...

Because of his efforts with Mexico, the number of people crossing the border to claim asylum has dropped 60% from the record highs of last May. Those numbers will be dropping even more when future illegal immigrants realize that Trump is serious about ending catch and release...as he will next week.

The US and Japan have taken one more step toward finalizing a very important trade deal which will not only benefit both countries...Abe has proven to be a tough negotiator (the kind Trump likes)...but it will be another step in dismantling China's supply chain and forcing them to finally work to come to an agreement with the US about their illegal trade practices.

These are just two of the very important things Trump has accomplished this week, alone, while also dealing with the onslaught from the Dems and Trump haters. And guess what...that onslaught is already falling apart.

View attachment 67264740
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Guns schmuns, amirite?

How about Trump's safe 3rd county agreement with El Salvador? Those agreements are decreasing illegal border crossings significantly, but the MSM and Democrats (but I repeat myself) completely ignore this and SO MANY great things Trump and his administration are doing.
All done in the face of a Cat. 5 poop storm in his face every.single.day.
 
Captain Adverse said:
I am posting this "theory" where it belongs at this point in time, the "Conspiracy Theories" sub-forum.

I do not know if anyone else has considered this possibility yet.

However, after reviewing media sources and actions, party political actions, and the actual whistleblower complaint, I have come to suspect that this is a new Intelligence Agency conspiracy to undermine the current Administration.

That a cabal of CIA members (perhaps Brennan loyalists?) who might also have been connected to the original Russia Collusion plot, have been working to create a "bombshell" to derail the current Administration.

I present Exhibit A, the Whistleblower Complaint:

http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/09/26/20190812_-_whistleblower_complaint_unclass.pdf

Look at this report carefully. What do you see?

It is a highly professional, step by step presentation; complete with footnotes and analysis of each point.

Note also that all throughout the complaint, the author is clear that he, himself, had no direct access to the subject material. It was all passed on to him by unnamed sources "concerned" about the President's "illegal actions."

IMHO this is NOT the work of a single person, seeking protection as a whistleblower.

It looks more like something that was worked on in conjunction with various individuals. Agency(?) members who collated the information from intelligence sources (spies?); who then discussed and revised it until it was ready for "presentation" by the selected front-man?

It is not a single "smoking gun" item. It is a hatchet job designed for one thing only, give the Impeachment movement the ammunition it needed.

Now, I am not ready to say that Trump is innocent of possible attempts to undermine Biden. I'll leave that to Constitutional scholars like Alan Derschowitz and Andrew Napolitano to argue over.

But if this "Conspiracy Theory" turns out to be in any way true?

Then I think this is a deadly dangerous precedent as well as a warning of the power we have given our Intelligence community over our society. Power that can be used to undermine ANY occupant of the Oval Office, Democrat, Republican, Third Party.

What say you?
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1. I think you are attempting to make something sound more ominous than it is.

2. That a CIA analyst would make sure a document this critical was well documented and footnoted isn't exactly evidence of anything. That's just professional writing.

3. If Trump hadn't done it, he wouldn't have been vulnerable to someone in the Agency launching an IG complaint about it. He has no one to blame but himself for this fiasco.
 
Captain Adverse said:
I am posting this "theory" where it belongs at this point in time, the "Conspiracy Theories" sub-forum.

I do not know if anyone else has considered this possibility yet.

However, after reviewing media sources and actions, party political actions, and the actual whistleblower complaint, I have come to suspect that this is a new Intelligence Agency conspiracy to undermine the current Administration.

That a cabal of CIA members (perhaps Brennan loyalists?) who might also have been connected to the original Russia Collusion plot, have been working to create a "bombshell" to derail the current Administration.

I present Exhibit A, the Whistleblower Complaint:

http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/09/26/20190812_-_whistleblower_complaint_unclass.pdf

Look at this report carefully. What do you see?

It is a highly professional, step by step presentation; complete with footnotes and analysis of each point.

Note also that all throughout the complaint, the author is clear that he, himself, had no direct access to the subject material. It was all passed on to him by unnamed sources "concerned" about the President's "illegal actions."

IMHO this is NOT the work of a single person, seeking protection as a whistleblower.

It looks more like something that was worked on in conjunction with various individuals. Agency(?) members who collated the information from intelligence sources (spies?); who then discussed and revised it until it was ready for "presentation" by the selected front-man?

It is not a single "smoking gun" item. It is a hatchet job designed for one thing only, give the Impeachment movement the ammunition it needed.

Now, I am not ready to say that Trump is innocent of possible attempts to undermine Biden. I'll leave that to Constitutional scholars like Alan Derschowitz and Andrew Napolitano to argue over.

But if this "Conspiracy Theory" turns out to be in any way true?

Then I think this is a deadly dangerous precedent as well as a warning of the power we have given our Intelligence community over our society. Power that can be used to undermine ANY occupant of the Oval Office, Democrat, Republican, Third Party.

What say you?
Click to expand...

Most plausible.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Not quite.

Trump did present the unredacted transcript. I have already discussed my opinion on that document in other threads.

But this "whistleblower complaint" uses that document to create suspicion via innuendo and interpretations. Making allegations of "suspect actions" based on it in order to create a reason for the Democrats to "investigate."

There is nothing in the "complaint" except allegations of possible "wrongdoing."

Taken at face value, Trump did nothing wrong. Add slants to it, he is doing "something" worthy of impeachment.
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It's pretty unbelievable you see it that way. Taken at face value, he called up Ukraine and asked them to put his political rivals under investigation while working with the AG and his personal attorney. How in the world can that be acceptable "at face value"?

If that's OK, Biden scheduling a meeting with a Chinese official starting it off with talks about trade, etc. The Chinese say, "We'd like to end these trade wars, get back to more open trading between our countries." and Joe goes, "I'd like for you to do me a favor, though. I hear there's lots of shady things going on with Don Jr. and the Trump family. Selling visas for investing in Trump properties is something I heard. I'd appreciate it if your guys can get to the bottom of that."

Seriously, that's an OK world where that becomes common?
 
Mr. Invisible said:
What's weirded me out is that this entire story is based on unnamed, unknown sources. I'm always rather suspicious of that. Regarding the actual question of a crime, there doesn't seem to be any. There is no hard evidence that the President was attempting to get Ukraine to influence the elections at all, rather he wanted to investigate Joe Biden and Hunter Biden regarding corruption. The question we should be asking is: What prompted this investigation?
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Three years of paying attention?
 
Acadia said:
Schiff had the "whistleblower" complaint since Aug. 12, and I bet anything that Pelosi had it, too. You are spot on.
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You're making that up. It's commonly called a "lie."
 
Acadia said:
Likely the "whistleblower" did not write it. Who fed the WB the information and who helped him write it and who got it to Schiffty and why was it held for 5 weeks??
One thing is for certain; the complaint and the phone transcript do not mirror each other.
Click to expand...

You’re forgetting the IC IG,he’s certainly in on it! :cuckoo:
 
Captain Adverse said:
I am posting this "theory" where it belongs at this point in time, the "Conspiracy Theories" sub-forum.

I do not know if anyone else has considered this possibility yet.

However, after reviewing media sources and actions, party political actions, and the actual whistleblower complaint, I have come to suspect that this is a new Intelligence Agency conspiracy to undermine the current Administration.

That a cabal of CIA members (perhaps Brennan loyalists?) who might also have been connected to the original Russia Collusion plot, have been working to create a "bombshell" to derail the current Administration.

I present Exhibit A, the Whistleblower Complaint:

http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/09/26/20190812_-_whistleblower_complaint_unclass.pdf

Look at this report carefully. What do you see?

It is a highly professional, step by step presentation; complete with footnotes and analysis of each point.

Note also that all throughout the complaint, the author is clear that he, himself, had no direct access to the subject material. It was all passed on to him by unnamed sources "concerned" about the President's "illegal actions."

IMHO this is NOT the work of a single person, seeking protection as a whistleblower.

It looks more like something that was worked on in conjunction with various individuals. Agency(?) members who collated the information from intelligence sources (spies?); who then discussed and revised it until it was ready for "presentation" by the selected front-man?

It is not a single "smoking gun" item. It is a hatchet job designed for one thing only, give the Impeachment movement the ammunition it needed.

Now, I am not ready to say that Trump is innocent of possible attempts to undermine Biden. I'll leave that to Constitutional scholars like Alan Derschowitz and Andrew Napolitano to argue over.

But if this "Conspiracy Theory" turns out to be in any way true?

Then I think this is a deadly dangerous precedent as well as a warning of the power we have given our Intelligence community over our society. Power that can be used to undermine ANY occupant of the Oval Office, Democrat, Republican, Third Party.

What say you?
Click to expand...

In answer to your question. Yes.

A full investigation by the Senate is called for.

Subpoena's of financial records, emails, text messaging, phone call records, along with sworn testimony is required here.

Biden, Leahy, Durbin, Menendez, and those involved in creating the whistleblower complaint for the CIA operative must be investigated. Adam Schiff and other must be included as well.

The citizens of this country deserve to get answers to the question of who is behind these actions, and the guilty brought to justice under the full weight of the law.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
They are close enough for government work. ;)

BTW, you don't want so much detail that the source(s) can be precisely pinpointed.
Click to expand...

As frequent and as voluminous leaks have been in this Administration, you’d suspect they would have whittled down the people with access. Reflects on them as well.

To the subscribers of the CT, how was the whistle blower picked; short straw? Their life will/has certainly changed.
 
Rexedgar said:
As frequent and as voluminous leaks have been in this Administration, you’d suspect they would have whittled down the people with access. Reflects on them as well.

To the subscribers of the CT, how was the whistle blower picked; short straw? Their life will/has certainly changed.
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Do you realize how many thousands of folks in and around DC have security clearances and how often they are rotated in and out of specific duty assignments? I was once one of them.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Do you realize how many thousands of folks in and around DC have security clearances and how often they are rotated in and out of specific duty assignments? I was once one of them.
Click to expand...


How many have access to POTUS conversations or which server things are stored on? If it numbers in the thousands, as you say, we have a problem in government.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
They may well have helped to write it.
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I'm thinking Stephen Miller. Think about it - Trump goes down, Pence is a loser, Miller steps in as the obvious replacement for a mentally declining Trump, but who can run alongside Miller as the corruptly deposed Dear Leader. Crowds go crazy. WIN IN 2020! MAGA!
 
Rexedgar said:
How many have access to POTUS conversations or which server things are stored on? If it numbers in the thousands, as you say, we have a problem in government.
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That material is only classified as confidential (and likely NOFORN) and the vague references included in the WB second hand accounts.
 
Mycroft said:
It is certainly part of a conspiracy...
Click to expand...

ttwtt78640 said:
They may well have helped to write it.
Click to expand...

Mr. Invisible said:
What's weirded me out is that this entire story is based on unnamed, unknown sources. I'm always rather suspicious of that...
Click to expand...

Acadia said:
Likely the "whistleblower" did not write it. Who fed the WB the information and who helped him write it and who got it to Schiffty and why was it held for 5 weeks??
One thing is for certain; the complaint and the phone transcript do not mirror each other.
Click to expand...

Barnacle said:
Looking at it from the point of all the discrepancies (further below) between the WB complaint and the transcript, it seems to me like only a very small group of people (maybe even only 2 or 3 people) concocted the story. If agencies had been involved, I can't help but think that at least 1 person would have had access to the actual phone transcript...
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Sorry, I didn't want to fill the thread with separate cites when I am responding with the same info.

I just came across this report containing the opinion of a former CIA Analyst.



He says this looks like it was written by a "law firm," then points out how Schiff had been talking about this before it was revealed, and there are other Congressional sources who suggest it could have been written by congressional staffers.
 
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Captain Adverse said:
Sorry, I didn't want to fill the thread with separate cites when I am responding with the same info.

I just came across this report containing the opinion of an former CIA Analyst.



He says this looks like it was written by a "law firm," then points out how Schiff had been talking about this before it was revealed, and there are other Congressional sources who suggest it could have been written by congressional staffers.
Click to expand...


That was my initial hunch since Pelosi was "all in" before anything was released.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Sorry, I didn't want to fill the thread with separate cites when I am responding with the same info.

I just came across this report containing the opinion of a former CIA Analyst.



He says this looks like it was written by a "law firm," then points out how Schiff had been talking about this before it was revealed, and there are other Congressional sources who suggest it could have been written by congressional staffers.
Click to expand...


Around two minutes in the guest notes that there seem to be multiple people involved in this. It definitely does make sense as the whistleblower was never even present when the phone call was taking place, so they are just reporting what someone else (or may be multiple people) are telling them. Then, to draw up a complaint, all of this happening a couple of days? Definitely seems like this person wasn't acting alone.
 
Captain Adverse said:
I am posting this "theory" where it belongs at this point in time, the "Conspiracy Theories" sub-forum.

I do not know if anyone else has considered this possibility yet.

However, after reviewing media sources and actions, party political actions, and the actual whistleblower complaint, I have come to suspect that this is a new Intelligence Agency conspiracy to undermine the current Administration.

That a cabal of CIA members (perhaps Brennan loyalists?) who might also have been connected to the original Russia Collusion plot, have been working to create a "bombshell" to derail the current Administration.

I present Exhibit A, the Whistleblower Complaint:

http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/09/26/20190812_-_whistleblower_complaint_unclass.pdf

Look at this report carefully. What do you see?

It is a highly professional, step by step presentation; complete with footnotes and analysis of each point.

Note also that all throughout the complaint, the author is clear that he, himself, had no direct access to the subject material. It was all passed on to him by unnamed sources "concerned" about the President's "illegal actions."

IMHO this is NOT the work of a single person, seeking protection as a whistleblower.

It looks more like something that was worked on in conjunction with various individuals. Agency(?) members who collated the information from intelligence sources (spies?); who then discussed and revised it until it was ready for "presentation" by the selected front-man?

It is not a single "smoking gun" item. It is a hatchet job designed for one thing only, give the Impeachment movement the ammunition it needed.

Now, I am not ready to say that Trump is innocent of possible attempts to undermine Biden. I'll leave that to Constitutional scholars like Alan Derschowitz and Andrew Napolitano to argue over.

But if this "Conspiracy Theory" turns out to be in any way true?

Then I think this is a deadly dangerous precedent as well as a warning of the power we have given our Intelligence community over our society. Power that can be used to undermine ANY occupant of the Oval Office, Democrat, Republican, Third Party.

What say you?
Click to expand...
I previously posted a similar thought, without the melodramatic overtones. I thought of the whistleblower as the sacrificial lamb. Short straw? But I do think that the information is a compilation of the concerns of a number of professionals. And there is no doubt that the complaint was drafted by an analyst of some experience.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Not quite.

Trump did present the unredacted transcript. I have already discussed my opinion on that document in other threads.

But this "whistleblower complaint" uses that document to create suspicion via innuendo and interpretations. Making allegations of "suspect actions" based on it in order to create a reason for the Democrats to "investigate."

There is nothing in the "complaint" except allegations of possible "wrongdoing."

Taken at face value, Trump did nothing wrong. Add slants to it, he is doing "something" worthy of impeachment.
Click to expand...

Boy, that is really off the deep end, my friend. It takes a huge dose of willful ignorance to dismiss the obvious misconduct in the documents, most of which have actually been corroborated already.
 
JasperL said:
It's pretty unbelievable you see it that way. Taken at face value, he called up Ukraine and asked them to put his political rivals under investigation while working with the AG and his personal attorney. How in the world can that be acceptable "at face value"?

If that's OK, Biden scheduling a meeting with a Chinese official starting it off with talks about trade, etc. The Chinese say, "We'd like to end these trade wars, get back to more open trading between our countries." and Joe goes, "I'd like for you to do me a favor, though. I hear there's lots of shady things going on with Don Jr. and the Trump family. Selling visas for investing in Trump properties is something I heard. I'd appreciate it if your guys can get to the bottom of that."

Seriously, that's an OK world where that becomes common?
Click to expand...

There's only one problem...

Trump didn't ask Zelenskiy to "get to the bottom" of anything involving Biden or his son.

If you think he did, please quote whatever words Trump used that give you that opinion. (and please...no matter how hard you find it to do...try to provide context)
 
NWRatCon said:
Boy, that is really off the deep end, my friend. It takes a huge dose of willful ignorance to dismiss the obvious misconduct in the documents, most of which have actually been corroborated already.
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No...what's off the deep end is the use of the tactics that C.A. identified. But then, these are the favored tactics of those who hate Trump. We see it from the media daily...spin, speculation innuendo, hyperbole...and a few lies. Yes...we see this daily.

We also see this from Congressional Democrats. Just yesterday, Sen. Wyden...the ranking member of the Senate Finance Committee reported on an "investigation" by the Democrats on that committee that was dismissed by the Chairman of the committee this way:

Unsupported conclusions rely on stretched assumptions & ignorance of existing laws

Washington – With no facts to support their call for an audit of the National Rifle Association’s tax-exempt status, Senate Finance Committee Democrats relied heavily on assumptions and innuendo to conjure a mirage of impropriety surrounding a 2015 trip by NRA officials to Russia. However, a report issued today by the committee’s minority staff summarizing its review of the evidence failed to establish abuse of its tax-exempt status.

“…the Minority report reads more like a political document directed at an organization well-known in U.S. politics to be despised by Democrats because of its advocacy for Second Amendment rights. This Majority finds no wrongdoing by the NRA or its officials that would reasonably call into question the NRA’s tax-exempt status, based on the documents provided to the Committee,” the Republican majority wrote in its analysis of the minority’s investigation summary.

“The Minority report uses terms like ‘raises concerns’ in an attempt to embarrass the NRA while absolving the Minority from having to assert any serious factual or legal analysis. The Minority report exaggerates several details, while omitting or downplaying mitigating facts. … Glossing over such facts just because they are damning to a narrative does not mean they do not exist. Despite this, the Minority report seeks to use this report as justification for a compulsory audit of the NRA, in order to conduct yet another fishing expedition for wrongdoing.”

Chairman's News | Newsroom | The United States Senate Committee on Finance
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Does this sound familiar? It should. The minority report us using the very same tactics that are used by the House Democrats and the two intel community members who are working for them...the whistleblower and the IG.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Sorry, I didn't want to fill the thread with separate cites when I am responding with the same info.

I just came across this report containing the opinion of a former CIA Analyst.



He says this looks like it was written by a "law firm," then points out how Schiff had been talking about this before it was revealed, and there are other Congressional sources who suggest it could have been written by congressional staffers.
Click to expand...


Schiff couldn't wait to leak it, but UkraineGate couldn't be *just* a leak, wafting around the Beltway. No, it had to have legs, so leaked information was funneled to a designated "whistleblower" who in turn, got hooked up with legal representation, who wrote the complaint letter for him, based on his regurgitated, second-hand information. That letter was sent to the proper authorities to launch an investigation.
Mind you, all the while, people who had FIRST-HAND information about these complaints said NOTHING. Why? Perhaps because what they actually witnessed would not trigger impeachment, but when several stories are leaked and conflated to make more hysteria, Democrats gin up a narrative to launch an impeachment inquiry, with gives them authority to subpoena all sorts of information, drag anyone in front of them and crank the "overturn Trump's election" tornado to an F5, as we barrel head long into the 2020 election.
 
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