What Happened to all the people HRC Killed?

lwf said:

So this husband and wife just happened to have tactical vests and assault rifles in their SUV and engaged in a running gun battle with police because they were innocent?

The third shooter report was investigated and it was determined that the eye witnesses were mistaken. There were just the two: Farook and Malik were radicalized by foreign terrorist websites and engaged in the terrorist attack without input from any known terrorist organizations. The only assistance they had was from a neighbor who pleaded guilty to providing material support to terrorists by purchasing the firearms for them.

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If there is one thing that you can bet on it is that innocent people always carry tactical vests and assault rifles.

NeverTrump said:

hmmm?? :shock:

Conspiracy theorists and QAnon believers linked Hillary Clinton to two shot state senators, 4 NYPD suicides, and the death of her brother. A month later, no links whatsoever have emerged and her arrest has not happened...

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Where do you think her pedophilia ring pizza shop got all its sausage?

Thoreau72 said:

I have seen the vehicles of many friends with tactical vests and assault rifles inside, and none of them have ever killed anybody.

A recent story had a cop planting drug evidence in the vehicles of innocent citizens. Such stories have been around for decades at least. It is not difficult to do.

Two different witnesses on the scene described the same trio. The lady interviewed by CBS saw their arrival, and a male saw and described the same men leaving the scene.

You're free to believe Scott Pelley and "what the authorities told us", but I'll pass.

Many but not all of the "mass shootings" the media has inundated us with have been staged events. SB was certainly one of them. The agenda is gun control, and in the case of SB an anti-muslim spin was incorporated.

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But the risk would outweigh the reward. Imagine what would happen if even a single person who was in on the conspiracy let a secret slip. Imagine how many heads would roll. Imagine the cost to whatever department or individuals made the decision to stage a mass shooting of innocent American citizens. All of that risk, all of that desperate life-threatening need to keep everyone involved quiet, and for what? The possibility that a few voters might be swayed to pass stricter gun laws? This is an irrational trade-off. Not to mention the near impossibility to keep that kind of explosive information secret for any length of time.

lwf said:

But the risk would outweigh the reward. Imagine what would happen if even a single person who was in on the conspiracy let a secret slip. Imagine how many heads would roll. Imagine the cost to whatever department or individuals made the decision to stage a mass shooting of innocent American citizens. All of that risk, all of that desperate life-threatening need to keep everyone involved quiet, and for what? The possibility that a few voters might be swayed to pass stricter gun laws? This is an irrational trade-off. Not to mention the near impossibility to keep that kind of explosive information secret for any length of time.

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The risk would outweigh the reward?

With Scott Pelley blatantly ignoring the testimony of a woman who worked there and saw it play out, there is no risk. As the old saying goes, if you can get them asking the wrong questions, you don't have to worry about the answers.

"The authorities" have a total lock on the mainstream media, as Scott Pelley so aptly demonstrated. There is no risk whatsoever to lying to the American people. Good Gawd, look at George Bush taking us to war under fraud. The sycophantic press positively adored him and supported him.

Deception of the American people is how the government rolls. As William Casey of CIA noted in 1981, when everything the American people believe is false, we will know the success of our misinformation efforts.

Inside the Beltway, there is no risk whatsoever to lying to the American people. Consider how Iran-Contra played out.

Thoreau72 said:

The risk would outweigh the reward?

With Scott Pelley blatantly ignoring the testimony of a woman who worked there and saw it play out, there is no risk. As the old saying goes, if you can get them asking the wrong questions, you don't have to worry about the answers.

"The authorities" have a total lock on the mainstream media, as Scott Pelley so aptly demonstrated. There is no risk whatsoever to lying to the American people. Good Gawd, look at George Bush taking us to war under fraud. The sycophantic press positively adored him and supported him.

Deception of the American people is how the government rolls. As William Casey of CIA noted in 1981, when everything the American people believe is false, we will know the success of our misinformation efforts.

Inside the Beltway, there is no risk whatsoever to lying to the American people. Consider how Iran-Contra played out.

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I wasn't talking about the risk of getting caught lying to the American people. You're right that politicians do this all the time. I was talking about the risk of murdering innocent American civilians. There is no way in hell anyone in their right mind would sign off on an operation to murder American citizens on American soil when the best case scenario is "it sparks a discussion on gun control." This makes no sense. One slip up and you and everyone involved is put to death. Get away with it, and you trigger nothing more than a national discussion and a week or two of media coverage. You know what this sounds like to me? Home-grown terrorism committed by some radicalized nutcase whose vision extends no farther than the last article he read on a nonsense propaganda website. And lo and behold, that's the conclusion that the FBI came to. Who could've guessed?

lwf said:

I wasn't talking about the risk of getting caught lying to the American people. You're right that politicians do this all the time. I was talking about the risk of murdering innocent American civilians. There is no way in hell anyone in their right mind would sign off on an operation to murder American citizens on American soil when the best case scenario is "it sparks a discussion on gun control." This makes no sense. One slip up and you and everyone involved is put to death. Get away with it, and you trigger nothing more than a national discussion and a week or two of media coverage. You know what this sounds like to me? Home-grown terrorism committed by some radicalized nutcase whose vision extends no farther than the last article he read on a nonsense propaganda website. And lo and behold, that's the conclusion that the FBI came to. Who could've guessed?

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The risk was minor to non-existent, because the American people (most of them) simply will not believe that their government would lie to them, as you here demonstrate.

In fact, they believe all sorts of nonsense like this, from Las Vegas to Sandy Hook to Pulse to 911 to Parkland. It is easier to fool a man than it is to explain to him how he has been fooled.

In fact, there was no risk at all. They are all asking the wrong questions.

Thoreau72 said:

The risk was minor to non-existent, because the American people (most of them) simply will not believe that their government would lie to them, as you here demonstrate.

In fact, they believe all sorts of nonsense like this, from Las Vegas to Sandy Hook to Pulse to 911 to Parkland. It is easier to fool a man than it is to explain to him how he has been fooled.

In fact, there was no risk at all. They are all asking the wrong questions.

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I absolutely do believe my government would lie to me. What I don't believe is that my government is capable of keeping something like this secret. My government can't even keep secrets I wish would remain secret, like military advancements. Loose lips sink ships. Tell me how there were no loose lips in any of those extraordinarily sensitive supposed operations you suspect the government of orchestrating? Also explain to me how any member of the American armed forces is going to consent to so thoroughly violating his oath and firing on the American civilians (including women and children) whom he is sworn to protect? You are deep in the rabbit hole, my friend. Your theories just don't pass the smell test. Occam's Razor: Don't unnecessarily multiply entities. The explanation that requires the least speculation is usually the correct one.

lwf said:

I absolutely do believe my government would lie to me. What I don't believe is that my government is capable of keeping something like this secret. My government can't even keep secrets I wish would remain secret, like military advancements. Loose lips sink ships. Tell me how there were no loose lips in any of those extraordinarily sensitive supposed operations you suspect the government of orchestrating? Also explain to me how any member of the American armed forces is going to consent to so thoroughly violating his oath and firing on the American civilians (including women and children) whom he is sworn to protect? You are deep in the rabbit hole, my friend. Your theories just don't pass the smell test. Occam's Razor: Don't unnecessarily multiply entities. The explanation that requires the least speculation is usually the correct one.

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Well they have not kept it a complete secret. I am not the only American who understands that numerous of these "mass shootings" are staged for political purposes. So it's not much of a secret anymore really, but the mainstream media works very hard to keep the official deception alive. So the net result is that a conspiracy of silence manifests. "Decent" people didn't talk about priests molesting boys, but it happened no matter what "decent" people talk about.

"Decent" people don't talk about the many failures of narratives for Sandy Hook or 911, but those narratives fail anyway, no matter what "decent" people talk about.

I'm not sure what you're trying to show mentioning soldiers not firing on US citizens, but they have, at least twice. Troops under Pershing fired on their comrades in arms a century ago on the Mall in Washington DC, firing on the complaining Brown Shoe Army guys wanting their wages. NG troops fired on college students at Kent State.

Ours is not to wonder why, ours is but to do, and die.

The rabbit hole is where the public has been taken many decades ago, by misinformation and downright deception by the government and media.

William Casey of CIA: "when everything the American people believe is false, we will know the success of our misinformation efforts."

Wake up and smell the napalm sir. Our governing document went up in smoke a long time ago.

Sorry I can't provide a link, but back when the 911 Commission issued its final report to the public, one poll was conducted and it showed that 85% of respondents thought that "the government is hiding something".

Thoreau72 said:

The risk was minor to non-existent, because the American people (most of them) simply will not believe that their government would lie to them, as you here demonstrate.

In fact, they believe all sorts of nonsense like this, from Las Vegas to Sandy Hook to Pulse to 911 to Parkland. It is easier to fool a man than it is to explain to him how he has been fooled.

In fact, there was no risk at all. They are all asking the wrong questions.

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The question we should be asking is “why does TD72 believe every single claim he reads about mass shooter conspiracy theories?”

Thoreau72 said:

CBS is mainstream media. It is the same "news organization" that told me lies about the San Bernardino shooting a few years back. They told the same lies about WMD and the other pro-war propaganda of the Bush administration. They told and retell the falsehoods about WTC attacks.

Why should I believe them now when so many other facts contradict their claims?

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There's got to a place between believing everything you read in MSM and believing everything you read in the library of bat**** crazy, tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy bukkakists. I mean, you're replacing a suspect version of reality, that absolutely requires constant fact checking, I'll give you that, with a political nerd on bathsalts' version of reality.

NeverTrump said:

hmmm?? :shock:

Conspiracy theorists and QAnon believers linked Hillary Clinton to two shot state senators, 4 NYPD suicides, and the death of her brother. A month later, no links whatsoever have emerged and her arrest has not happened...

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Similar to the Obama birth certificate lie. It served its racist purpose, no longer needed.

The Dems have now learnt to play just as dirty as Republicans. It does not bode well for our democracy.

OlNate said:

There's got to a place between believing everything you read in MSM and believing everything you read in the library of bat**** crazy, tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy bukkakists. I mean, you're replacing a suspect version of reality, that absolutely requires constant fact checking, I'll give you that, with a political nerd on bathsalts' version of reality.

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Yes Nate, there must be such a place, even if it exists only in your mind.

Place faith in the pronouncements of known liars at your own risk. Thanks, I'll pass, ESPECIALLY when the facts contradict the claims of your known liars.

NeverTrump said:

hmmm?? :shock:

Conspiracy theorists and QAnon believers linked Hillary Clinton to two shot state senators, 4 NYPD suicides, and the death of her brother. A month later, no links whatsoever have emerged and her arrest has not happened...

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Soylent green.

Bum said:

Soylent green.

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The plot thickens!

Thoreau72 said:

Yes Nate, there must be such a place, even if it exists only in your mind.

Place faith in the pronouncements of known liars at your own risk. Thanks, I'll pass, ESPECIALLY when the facts contradict the claims of your known liars.

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But what's your alternative? Click-bait snake oil salesmen? The tinfoil hat brigade?

I'm quite certain we get lied to all the time, and if there is an issue that's important to you beyond indulging in outrage, and if there's something you can actually do about the situation, then it's to the point where it's on you to gather the truth yourself, if you want to be 100% sure....but how many of those things are there, really? What makes you so sure that these sources of yours aren't planted there to muddy the waters further?

No point stressing the stuff you can't impact, bud...believing in conspiracies might help explain a world one is not happy or satisfied with, but ultimately it's a waste of time. Even if you have all kinds of "secret knowledge" the rest of us sheeple don't have or won't believe, unless you have an army or two at your disposal, it's all moot anyway. :shrug:

NeverTrump said:

hmmm?? :shock:

Conspiracy theorists and QAnon believers linked Hillary Clinton to two shot state senators, 4 NYPD suicides, and the death of her brother. A month later, no links whatsoever have emerged and her arrest has not happened...

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Trump found them, gave them CPR, and resuscitated every last one of them. He's a hero! #LostTrumpHistory

OlNate said:

But what's your alternative? Click-bait snake oil salesmen? The tinfoil hat brigade?

I'm quite certain we get lied to all the time, and if there is an issue that's important to you beyond indulging in outrage, and if there's something you can actually do about the situation, then it's to the point where it's on you to gather the truth yourself, if you want to be 100% sure....but how many of those things are there, really? What makes you so sure that these sources of yours aren't planted there to muddy the waters further?

No point stressing the stuff you can't impact, bud...believing in conspiracies might help explain a world one is not happy or satisfied with, but ultimately it's a waste of time. Even if you have all kinds of "secret knowledge" the rest of us sheeple don't have or won't believe, unless you have an army or two at your disposal, it's all moot anyway. :shrug:

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The alternative I use is independent thinking, and the 'alternative' media.

I read headlines on mainstream media, and sometimes an entire article if pertinent,just to discover how they want me to think. I do the same with alternative media.

Once a person really understands that William Casey was making a true statement in 1981, it's much easier to be an independent thinker. When everything the American people believe is false, we will know the success of our misinformation efforts.

Operation Mockingbird was real, and it was playing out when I was a kid. There is a reason the MSM never discusses that.

Thoreau72 said:

The alternative I use is independent thinking, and the 'alternative' media.

I read headlines on mainstream media, and sometimes an entire article if pertinent,just to discover how they want me to think. I do the same with alternative media.

Once a person really understands that William Casey was making a true statement in 1981, it's much easier to be an independent thinker. When everything the American people believe is false, we will know the success of our misinformation efforts.

Operation Mockingbird was real, and it was playing out when I was a kid. There is a reason the MSM never discusses that.

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I think what you're describing, minus all the unprovable stuff, is essentially the same as what I'm saying. You need to be disciplined enough to separate the bias from the facts, and understand that there are simply things we, as the public, can't know, in order to keep the machine running. Not saying that's always right, often it's not, but it is what it is.

By going to alternative media you take a bigger risk of getting fed nonsense. That also shouldn't be surprising … the Internet nobodies have far less to lose than a national media outlet. In fact, the quick research I did on Operation Mockingbird indicates that they used the equivalent back in the day - student newspapers, independent rags... So, how are you so sure that these media outlets you turn to now aren't compromised, or blatant setups? MSM gets it wrong by inserting opinion, or by not being disciplined enough to get ALL the facts, or the right interpretation of the facts. And yes, once in a while they seem to get caught in a blatant lie. But alternative media is free to generate as much fiction as they like, for an audience who eats this stuff up with a religious fervor...and if they get caught, they shut down, and pop up as something else.

I respect your reasoning and your process, but I can't help but wonder what makes you think it's any better than mine.

NeverTrump said:

hmmm?? :shock:

Conspiracy theorists and QAnon believers linked Hillary Clinton to two shot state senators, 4 NYPD suicides, and the death of her brother. A month later, no links whatsoever have emerged and her arrest has not happened...

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2 years of "TRUMP COLLUDED WITH RUSSIANS!" 24/7/7 no links whatsoever have emerged.

OlNate said:

I think what you're describing, minus all the unprovable stuff, is essentially the same as what I'm saying. You need to be disciplined enough to separate the bias from the facts, and understand that there are simply things we, as the public, can't know, in order to keep the machine running. Not saying that's always right, often it's not, but it is what it is.

By going to alternative media you take a bigger risk of getting fed nonsense. That also shouldn't be surprising … the Internet nobodies have far less to lose than a national media outlet. In fact, the quick research I did on Operation Mockingbird indicates that they used the equivalent back in the day - student newspapers, independent rags... So, how are you so sure that these media outlets you turn to now aren't compromised, or blatant setups? MSM gets it wrong by inserting opinion, or by not being disciplined enough to get ALL the facts, or the right interpretation of the facts. And yes, once in a while they seem to get caught in a blatant lie. But alternative media is free to generate as much fiction as they like, for an audience who eats this stuff up with a religious fervor...and if they get caught, they shut down, and pop up as something else.

I respect your reasoning and your process, but I can't help but wonder what makes you think it's any better than mine.

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I'm not saying it's necessarily BETTER than yours, but I am saying that it is APPARENTLY different than yours.

In part, that is because we CAN KNOW one important fact--in many if not most cases, we are being lied to. Some of us, myself included, understand that, and that knowledge helps the analysis. There are so many examples of our being lied to that I don't see how the independent thinker can believe much of what is being crammed down our throats. Snowden and all the other whistleblowers are evidence of that. Conscientious men and women who can no longer live with themselves having to participate in the widespread deception.

Not to beat a dead horse, but William Casey was making a simple and very true statement in the same way Ike was making a very true statement. Brainwashing and the undue influence of the military industrial complex respectively.

I respect you for even talking about this.

I understand I see things differently, but IMO there is no clearer example of how it all works than the San Bernardino event and Scott Pelley's comments--"But the authorities have told us that the shooters were a man and his wife", coming right after he had interviewed a woman who worked there and had seen very much the opposite.

In my world, Pelley and his employers can never be trusted again. He is a mouthpiece for government deception and propaganda, and he is certainly not the only one. For decades now, when watching the evening news on TV, I switch back and forth between the big 3. And for decades, the big stories are told by them in an identical way. WMD in Iraq, SB, Pulse, MH17 and so many more are all told the same way. Mainstream media is nothing but propaganda. Today, complete silence on the 5G thing, even as alternative media such as Global Research offer story after story from Europe and elsewhere regarding the effects on real people where the early installments are having health effects.

Thanks for your time.

Deuce said:

The question we should be asking is “why does TD72 believe every single claim he reads about mass shooter conspiracy theories?”

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It's a documented psychological phenomenon attributed to people that are usually alienated and socially isolated. Conspiracy theories make them feel special, like they're privy to some inside information known only to them. Conspiracy theories are driven by people, not facts.

HenryChinaski said:

It's a documented psychological phenomenon attributed to people that are usually alienated and socially isolated. Conspiracy theories make them feel special, like they're privy to some inside information known only to them. Conspiracy theories are driven by people, not facts.

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What psychological factors drive the popularity of conspiracy theories, which explain important events as secret plots
by powerful and malevolent groups? What are the psychological consequences of adopting these theories? We review
the current research and find that it answers the first of these questions more thoroughly than the second. Belief in
conspiracy theories appears to be driven by motives that can be characterized as epistemic (understanding one’s
environment), existential (being safe and in control of one’s environment), and social (maintaining a positive image
of the self and the social group). However, little research has investigated the consequences of conspiracy belief, and
to date, this research does not indicate that conspiracy belief fulfills people’s motivations. Instead, for many people,
conspiracy belief may be more appealing than satisfying. Further research is needed to determine for whom, and
under what conditions, conspiracy theories may satisfy key psychological motives.
SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class journal research

HenryChinaski said:

It's a documented psychological phenomenon attributed to people that are usually alienated and socially isolated. Conspiracy theories make them feel special, like they're privy to some inside information known only to them. Conspiracy theories are driven by people, not facts.

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Yeah, let's take solace in Dubya's speech at the UN in 2001: LET US NEVER TOLERATE OUTRAGEOUS CONSPIRACY THEORIES CONCERNING THE ATTACKS OF SEPTEMBER 11; MALICIOUS LIES THAT ATTEMPT TO SHIFT THE BLAME AWAY FROM THE TERRORISTS, THEMSELVES, AWAY FROM THE GUILTY.

Dubya would be proud of you Henry! :mrgreen:

Thoreau72 said:

Yeah, let's take solace in Dubya's speech at the UN in 2001: LET US NEVER TOLERATE OUTRAGEOUS CONSPIRACY THEORIES CONCERNING THE ATTACKS OF SEPTEMBER 11; MALICIOUS LIES THAT ATTEMPT TO SHIFT THE BLAME AWAY FROM THE TERRORISTS, THEMSELVES, AWAY FROM THE GUILTY.

Dubya would be proud of you Henry! :mrgreen:

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Case in point right here. Conspiracy theories are driven by people, not facts.

HenryChinaski said:

Case in point right here. Conspiracy theories are driven by people, not facts.

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That is certainly a true statement.

I wonder who it is, which people, that drive the conspiracy theory in which 19 arabs with box cutters hijacked 4 airliners back in 2001?

I wonder who it was that drove the theory that a man and his wife did the shooting at San Bernardino?

Who drove the theory that Adam Lanza shot up Sandy Hook?

So strange that facts contradict those theories.

The Lance deHaven-Smith book Conspiracy Theory in America deals with all this. Have you read it?