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Vaccines

Good4Nothin said:
Aluminum Adjuvant-Containing Vaccines in the Context of the Hygiene Hypothesis: A Risk Factor for Eosinophilia and Allergy in a Genetically Susceptible Subpopulation?

"The reviewed data on aluminum adjuvants supports the possibility that aluminum-containing vaccination may be an amplifier of the hygiene hypothesis and microbiome theory, and thus a contributing factor to the increase in allergic disease, especially in a genetically predisposed young subpopulation."
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The possibility. Where is the proof? In what academic study is your PhD?
 
Good4Nothin said:
You looked at one. I linked a bunch. There is plenty of research showing problems with vaccine safety. You don't care. You just don't want the "anti-vaxxers" to be right about anything. And I am not an anti-vaxxer, but the way. I just try to see more than one side of controversies.

You want to trust the authorities you have so much respect for. You want our lives to be dominated by "smart experts."

Well sorry I don't trust them.
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Nope. You have yet to show a single study that's RELEVANT; i.e. one that argues for stopping any single vaccine. All your links are NOT relevant because they discuss relatively few and relatively unimportant cases compared to savings millions of lives and avoiding millions of horrible diseases. While those studies are important for further improving vaccines, they do NOT mean what you want them to mean.

There is NO controversy in this field except for one created by conspiracy theorists and amplified by Russian misinformation units.
 
The one positive aspect of this thread is that it reveals that the anti-vaxxers and the climate change deniers have the same pigheaded perspectives.
 
Slavister said:
Nope. You have yet to show a single study that's RELEVANT; i.e. one that argues for stopping any single vaccine. All your links are NOT relevant because they discuss relatively few and relatively unimportant cases compared to savings millions of lives and avoiding millions of horrible diseases. While those studies are important for further improving vaccines, they do NOT mean what you want them to mean.

There is NO controversy in this field except for one created by conspiracy theorists and amplified by Russian misinformation units.
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My links show that questions about vaccine safety have NOT been answered. Mainstream media says vaccines are all safe and wonderful, without showing any evidence.

I am not talking about stopping any single vaccine. I am saying that safety testing has been inadequate, and there are scientific reasons for thinking vaccines can damage the immune system and brain.

The immune system is complex and poorly understood. Relationships between gut bacteria and the brain have only been investigated recently.

The mainstream consensus is that all the people who thought their children became autistic after being vaccinated are too stupid and ignorant to have an opinion.

We know that allergies and autoimmune disorders have been increasing in children. There is no scientific reason to assume this has nothing to do with vaccines.

As you can see from the comments in this thread, people who defend vaccines are angry and emotional. If you really were scientific you would have read the articles I linked. At least the abstracts of the ones that are not free. You would see that there are very good reasons to have concerns about vaccine safety.

If, for example, aluminum adjuvants were found to sometimes be harmful, maybe something else could be used.

Almost no one wants to get rid of vaccines altogether. But there is nothing wrong with being careful.
 
Clinical Features in Patients with Long-Lasting Macrophagic Myofasciitis

"The exact biological mechanisms leading to the outbreak of clinical manifestations in patients with long-term persisting MMF lesions are unknown so far. In the light of the story of MMF, one may consider that it is timely for health governmental agencies to rethink the methods for evaluating long-term safety of inorganic compounds and to support appropriate research programs."
 
"In 2010, Shoenfeld and Agmon-Levin proposed the concept of autoimmune/inflammatory syndrome induced adjuvants (ASIA) that includes different clinical syndromes induced by exposure to xenobiotic having immune adjuvant properties (42). ASIA includes siliconosis (complications associated with silicone-containing implants), Gulf War syndrome, MMF, and post-vaccination phenomena. ASIA is characterized by a corpus of common symptoms including (i) muscle symptoms (myalgias, muscle weakness); (ii) joint involvement (arthralgia, arthritis); (iii) chronic fatigue and sleep disorders; and (iv) a neurological and/or cognitive involvement (Table ​(Table33)."
 
It looks like maybe adjuvants aren't so good for everyone.
 
Greece is the latest European country to face a major measles outbreak with Romania, Italy and Germany recording epidemics. ’

‘It is tragic and unacceptable that 49 children and adults in EU countries have died from complications of measles infection in the past two years, while safe and effective vaccines are readily available,’ says Dr Andrea Ammon, Director of the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control (ECDC).

Most cases – 87% – were among people who were not vaccinated, despite the widespread availability of the MMR vaccines, which protects against measles, mumps and rubella.

‘Vaccination with at least two doses of MMR vaccine remains the most effective measure to prevent the further spread of measles,’ Dr Ammon says, noting the Europe is committed to eliminating the disease.
Europe's 49 measles deaths: 'tragic and unacceptable' - VaccinesToday
 
WELCOME TO THE ANTI-VACCINE BODY COUNT
The United States Anti-Vaccination Movement is composed of a variety of individuals ranging from former doctors who should know better, to semi-celebrities who have no medical training, to anti-government conspiracy theorists who distrust anything that the government says. They all hold onto the mistaken belief that autism is caused by receiving childhood vaccines.

Most anti-vaccination believers claim that the compound Thimerosal led to an increase in autism cases. The Measles/Mumps/Rubella vaccine is their usual target. However, Thimerosal was never used as a preservative in the Measles/Mumps/Rubella vaccine. No vaccine licensed since 1999 has contained Thimerosal as a preservative, except a few multi-dose container vaccines such as some (but not all) HIB and Influenza vaccines. Autism has not declined since 1999, thereby disproving this connection. However, this has not stopped anti-vaccination believers from claiming that it was the MMR vaccine itself that caused autism or that it was vaccines in general that caused autism. All of these ideas have been disproven in multiple scientific and legal examinations of the evidence. The primary scientific reason for the increase in autism diagnoses is due to more disorders being included in the Autism Spectrum and doctors getting better at diagnosing the characteristics of autism.

In 2007 there was an increase in celebrities promoting anti-vaccination rhetoric. Because of their celebrity status they appeared on several television shows and published multiple books advising parents not to vaccinate their children. This has led to an increase in the number of vaccine preventable illnesses as well as an increase in the number of vaccine preventable deaths.

The Anti-Vaccination Movement has a body count attached to its name. This website publishes the total number of vaccine preventable illnesses and vaccine preventable deaths that have happened in the United States since this 2007 increase in speaking out against vaccines.

Is the United States Anti-Vaccination Movement directly responsible for every vaccine preventable illness and every vaccine preventable death listed here? No. However, the United States Anti-Vaccination Movement may be indirectly responsible for at least some of these illnesses and deaths and even one vaccine preventable illness or vaccine preventable death is too many.

Anti-Vaccine Body Count - Home
 
Expect even more measles outbreaks in the United States in coming years, public health experts say, thanks to overseas epidemics and growing misinformation efforts by anti-vaccination activists.

Outbreaks of the highly contagious virus are now active in 20 states, with 555 confirmed cases in the US this year alone, according to the CDC. That’s well on track to exceed 2014’s record of 667 cases, the highest number recorded since the disease was declared domestically eradicated in 2000.
US Measles Outbreaks Are The New Normal, Experts Say
 
Weeks after a hotspot for anti-vaxxers turned into a hotspot for measles infections, vaccination rates have surged in the area, according to news reports.

Last month, following 50 confirmed cases and 11 suspected cases of the measles, Clark County, Washington, declared a public health emergency. Now, residents of the area are scrambling for vaccinations, according to Kaiser Health News.

Compared with January of last year, measles vaccinations in Clark County are up 500 percent, from 530 doses to 3,150 doses. Statewide, the number of measles vaccinations increased by about 30 percent, from 12,140 doses last January to 15,780 this January, Kaiser Health News reported


Measles Outbreak Spurs Vaccination Surge in Anti-Vaxxer Hotspot
 
Good4Nothin said:
My links show that questions about vaccine safety have NOT been answered.
...
I am not talking about stopping any single vaccine.
...
I am saying that safety testing has been inadequate, and there are scientific reasons for thinking vaccines can damage the immune system and brain.
...
You would see that there are very good reasons to have concerns about vaccine safety.

If, for example, aluminum adjuvants were found to sometimes be harmful, maybe something else could be used.

Almost no one wants to get rid of vaccines altogether. But there is nothing wrong with being careful.
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Since you recommend we do NOT stop any vaccines and continue to vaccinate the population, how exactly do you propose to "be careful"?
 
Slavister said:
Since you recommend we do NOT stop any vaccines and continue to vaccinate the population, how exactly do you propose to "be careful"?
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He is only saying that testing is inadequate. He has no proof of that statement.
 
Threegoofs said:
Of course I didn’t read your conspiracy blog trash.

Yes- it’s known that many vaccines are not 100% effective.

That’s not a problem when you really just want herd immunity.

The measles vaccine, despite not having 100% coverage, was fantastically effective on a population level- virtually eradicating the disease completely in the US.
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I was lucky--before the vaccine for measles was developed I contracted the disease and suffered no particular ill effects. I can remember seeing the red spots all over my body.

So now I have life long immunity.

Yes, beware of conspiracies. They are man's worst enemy! :lamo
 
Thoreau72 said:
I was lucky--before the vaccine for measles was developed I contracted the disease and suffered no particular ill effects. I can remember seeing the red spots all over my body.

So now I have life long immunity.

Yes, beware of conspiracies. They are man's worst enemy! :lamo
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Nice avoidance of any of my points.
 
Good4Nothin said:
I SAID they should all be tested for safety!
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They are. There is a higher incidence of reactions to OTCs like Tylenol and Aleve than there is to any of the commonly used vaccines.
 
Thoreau72 said:
I was lucky--before the vaccine for measles was developed I contracted the disease and suffered no particular ill effects. I can remember seeing the red spots all over my body.

So now I have life long immunity.

Yes, beware of conspiracies. They are man's worst enemy! :lamo
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And for all we know, those to whom you passed on this disease were not so lucky. You might have been part of the chain that passed this on to some baby that did not survive it.
 
zyzygy said:
Greece is the latest European country to face a major measles outbreak with Romania, Italy and Germany recording epidemics. ’

‘It is tragic and unacceptable that 49 children and adults in EU countries have died from complications of measles infection in the past two years, while safe and effective vaccines are readily available,’ says Dr Andrea Ammon, Director of the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control (ECDC).

Most cases – 87% – were among people who were not vaccinated, despite the widespread availability of the MMR vaccines, which protects against measles, mumps and rubella.

‘Vaccination with at least two doses of MMR vaccine remains the most effective measure to prevent the further spread of measles,’ Dr Ammon says, noting the Europe is committed to eliminating the disease.
Europe's 49 measles deaths: 'tragic and unacceptable' - VaccinesToday
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You keep posting these, and I keep saying the purpose of the OP was NOT to say all vaccines are worthless. My point is that vaccine safety should be questioned, and I have provided supporting evidence, which you ignore.
 
zyzygy said:
He is only saying that testing is inadequate. He has no proof of that statement.
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I posted many articles explaining why testing is inadequate. There is no absolute proof or absolute certainty. There are scientific reasons to suspect some vaccine ingredients may be harmful. Especially when a large number of vaccines are given to an infant.
 
Good4Nothin said:
You keep posting these, and I keep saying the purpose of the OP was NOT to say all vaccines are worthless. My point is that vaccine safety should be questioned, and I have provided supporting evidence, which you ignore.
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You have provided links that say "probable" and "maybe". Vaccines are thoroughly tested.
 
zyzygy said:
You have provided links that say "probable" and "maybe". Vaccines are thoroughly tested.
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If they are so thoroughly tested, why are they probably sometimes harmful?
 
The medical authorities are afraid people will stop getting their children vaccinated. That is why there is so much propaganda saying vaccines are extremely safe.

If parents have any doubts or fears, they might decide it's better to risk their kids getting measles, flu, etc.

The authorities do not expect the public to be intelligent. They do not expect people to think in shades of grey. Like some of you here -- it's all black vs white.

The reality is that the immune system is poorly understood, and vaccines are poorly understood, even by the experts.

More and better research is needed, and it should not all be done by the vaccine makers.
 
Good4Nothin said:
The medical authorities are afraid people will stop getting their children vaccinated. That is why there is so much propaganda saying vaccines are extremely safe.

If parents have any doubts or fears, they might decide it's better to risk their kids getting measles, flu, etc.

The authorities do not expect the public to be intelligent. They do not expect people to think in shades of grey. Like some of you here -- it's all black vs white.

The reality is that the immune system is poorly understood, and vaccines are poorly understood, even by the experts.

More and better research is needed, and it should not all be done by the vaccine makers.
Click to expand...

In your misinformed opinion.
 
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