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Vaccines

Good4Nothin

Good4Nothin

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I understand the reason for vaccines. They supposedly prevent epidemics of infectious diseases, which used to be so destructive in the past. We seldom have these epidemics anymore in the US, and that is supposedly because of vaccines.

I am willing to go along with the assumption that vaccines can be helpful. I am NOT willing to go along with the medical industry pushing more and more vaccines. They do NOT have good evidence that this is safe or necessary.

Vaccine makers are not motivated to test well for safety, since they have no liability. We are so vaccine crazed now, that the government wants to make things easy for the drug companies, to make sure they continue making more and more vaccines. If they had liability, they might stop, supposedly.

And then of course there is the other side -- all the people who want to sue because they think their children were damaged. And the doctors and lawyers who want to profit from this.

You can't trust either side. Our government has teamed up with the big drug companies, that is obvious.

But there is also a sincere well-meaning belief in the wonder of vaccines.

Obviously the truth is not found in either extreme. The difficult and expensive work of controlled scientific studies is the only way to answer the questions. But they probably won't be done, since we already "know" vaccines are safe and effective. And any research that is done will be funded by drug companies, so they will always turn out favorably for the vaccines.

It has become very hard to find information in google that is skeptical of vaccines. That's because Big Tech is taking good care of us and making sure we don't get fake information. Or what they consider fake. Or what Big Tech and Big Drug and the US government don't want us to know.

Autism was a big controversy of course, because so many children got it after being vaccinated. But that could be a coincidence, a lot of coincidences. And parents are not medical experts so they know nothing about their own children.

Research has shown no connection between vaccines and autism. But you can make research show anything you want, practically.

There has been research showing a connection between vaccines and gastrointestinal problems, and between gastrointestinal problems and autism.

Those dots are easy enough to connect. Wakefield did that decades ago, but he was discredited. The drug companies didn't like his research.

So who knows. One thing I do know is I do not trust Big Drug or our nanny government and its Big Tech friends.
 
Good4Nothin said:
I understand the reason for vaccines. They supposedly prevent epidemics of infectious diseases, which used to be so destructive in the past. We seldom have these epidemics anymore in the US, and that is supposedly because of vaccines.

I am willing to go along with the assumption that vaccines can be helpful. I am NOT willing to go along with the medical industry pushing more and more vaccines. They do NOT have good evidence that this is safe or necessary.

Vaccine makers are not motivated to test well for safety, since they have no liability. We are so vaccine crazed now, that the government wants to make things easy for the drug companies, to make sure they continue making more and more vaccines. If they had liability, they might stop, supposedly.

And then of course there is the other side -- all the people who want to sue because they think their children were damaged. And the doctors and lawyers who want to profit from this.

You can't trust either side. Our government has teamed up with the big drug companies, that is obvious.

But there is also a sincere well-meaning belief in the wonder of vaccines.

Obviously the truth is not found in either extreme. The difficult and expensive work of controlled scientific studies is the only way to answer the questions. But they probably won't be done, since we already "know" vaccines are safe and effective. And any research that is done will be funded by drug companies, so they will always turn out favorably for the vaccines.

It has become very hard to find information in google that is skeptical of vaccines. That's because Big Tech is taking good care of us and making sure we don't get fake information. Or what they consider fake. Or what Big Tech and Big Drug and the US government don't want us to know.

Autism was a big controversy of course, because so many children got it after being vaccinated. But that could be a coincidence, a lot of coincidences. And parents are not medical experts so they know nothing about their own children.

Research has shown no connection between vaccines and autism. But you can make research show anything you want, practically.

There has been research showing a connection between vaccines and gastrointestinal problems, and between gastrointestinal problems and autism.

Those dots are easy enough to connect. Wakefield did that decades ago, but he was discredited. The drug companies didn't like his research.

So who knows. One thing I do know is I do not trust Big Drug or our nanny government and its Big Tech friends.
Click to expand...

I was one of the first children in the UK who received the polio vaccine. I saw children in leg callipers and iron lungs. Vaccination is a good thing.
 
zyzygy said:
I was one of the first children in the UK who received the polio vaccine. I saw children in leg callipers and iron lungs. Vaccination is a good thing.
Click to expand...

You are making it all sound so simple. Vaccines have prevented diseases, therefore all vaccines are good, and we should all have more and more of them. THAT is the thinking of our medical authorities.

Any time something is considered to be ALL GOOD, there is chance it will be over-used.
 
Good4Nothin said:
You are making it all sound so simple. Vaccines have prevented diseases, therefore all vaccines are good, and we should all have more and more of them. THAT is the thinking of our medical authorities.

Any time something is considered to be ALL GOOD, there is chance it will be over-used.
Click to expand...

Name a bad vaccine.
 
Good4Nothin said:
You are making it all sound so simple. Vaccines have prevented diseases, therefore all vaccines are good, and we should all have more and more of them. THAT is the thinking of our medical authorities.

Any time something is considered to be ALL GOOD, there is chance it will be over-used.
Click to expand...

Wakefield lied. He wasn't just discredited, he was struck off the Medical Register due to his egregious lies.
 
Manc Skipper said:
Wakefield lied. He wasn't just discredited, he was struck off the Medical Register due to his egregious lies.
Click to expand...

Any time a researcher finds something Big Drug doesn't like, they can be accused of lying. How do you know he was lying, aside from their motivated accusations?
 
The connection between gut bacteria and the immune system is being increasingly recognized. So is the connection between gut bacteria and the brain.

Wakefield noticed these connections decades ago. Never got any credit for it of course, since he was attacked and shut down by the authorities.
 
The problem is that there is no reliable reporting of Vaccine "failures." Currently the only tracking done by the CDC is VAERS.

VAERS - About Us

Meanwhile, this only collects data from those willing to report it, and it is not verified.

"When evaluating data from VAERS, it is important to note that for any reported event, no cause-and-effect relationship has been established. Reports of all possible associations between vaccines and adverse events (possible side effects) are filed in VAERS. Therefore, VAERS collects data on any adverse event following vaccination, be it coincidental or truly caused by a vaccine. The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a vaccine caused the event."
Click to expand...

What CDC statistics say about vaccine-related illnesses, injuries and death | PunditFact

So who knows how vaccines are affecting the population?

I have a problem with forced vaccination based on my own history.

As a child I had a very severe cold, and had to spend time in the hospital. I recovered and have never experienced either the Flu or common cold since...

That is except when I was in the Army and required to take a battery of vaccinations once a year. For a couple of days after these vaccinations, I felt ill. Not showing actual cold symptoms, just a general achiness and lethargy. It would clear up in a couple of days but it troubled me.

After I left the Army I've avoided such shots ever since. I have never experienced a Cold or Flu symptom since.

This experience makes me wonder if we are falling to allow our kids to develop natural immunities. That we are constantly bombarding citizens with unnecessary treatments out of fear they won't, encouraged by Drug company propaganda.

So I can sympathize to a certain extent with those who oppose requiring such treatments.
 
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Manc Skipper said:
Not a vaccine, nor a medicine, it is neither safe nor effective. It has no known function within the human body.
Click to expand...

Geez Manc, it was a joke. :D Jones touts this stuff as a cure-all and I thought it would be funny.

E.T.A. Admittedly, it's not one of my best.
 
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Captain Adverse said:
This experience makes me wonder if we are falling to allow our kids to develop natural immunities. That we are constantly bombarding citizens with unnecessary treatments out of fear they won't, encouraged by Drug company propaganda.

So I can sympathize to a certain extent with those who oppose requiring such treatments.
Click to expand...


Natural immunity is much better. It lasts a lifetime, while vaccine immunity is temporary.

Some vaccines may be helpful, some probably are not. But the whole problem is being ignored now. What medical researcher would dare to investigate vaccines?
 
Not this again! Every single time we get somewhere with vaccines someone comes along with misinformation and we end up our most vulnerable struck by what we almost eradicated.

If it’s not junk science, it’s religion... otherwise it is useless conspiracy theory further clouding the issue.
 
OrphanSlug said:
Not this again! Every single time we get somewhere with vaccines someone comes along with misinformation and we end up our most vulnerable struck by what we almost eradicated.

If it’s not junk science, it’s religion... otherwise it is useless conspiracy theory further clouding the issue.
Click to expand...

There is too much fanaticism on this subject. You don't want to investigate and see if there are any problems. You just want everyone to think ALL VACCINES ARE ALL GOOD ALL THE TIME.

Any medical intervention can have risks. It is important to be aware of the risks. Safety testing should not be left entirely up to the drug companies.
 
Good4Nothin said:
Natural immunity is much better. It lasts a lifetime, while vaccine immunity is temporary.

Some vaccines may be helpful, some probably are not. But the whole problem is being ignored now. What medical researcher would dare to investigate vaccines?
Click to expand...

Poor logic highlighted.

In order to gain natural immunity to measles, you have to contract measles, which gives you about a 1 in 500 chance of death, along with potential problem with your sight, right up to blindness. As best we know, the vaccine causes severe allergic responses in 1 in a million. Your call.


On the research, Wakefield got famous with (I'll say supposed) lies, and you don't think there's a researcher or two out there that would be interested in getting famous by revealing the truth?

It's getting harder to suppress information, not easier.

If your concern is sincere, look into Wakefield more closely. He had financial ties directly to people actively suing the vaccine manufacturer (arguably the original anti-vaxxers.) His "study" was based on 12 test subjects, which were apparently improperly collected. He lost his license. His work was discredited by his co-authors.

Some of that might have been retaliation, but not all.

Figuring out the truth about vaccines is worthwhile. Don't start it by hitching your wagon to a fraud.
 
WillyPete said:
Poor logic highlighted.

In order to gain natural immunity to measles, you have to contract measles, which gives you about a 1 in 500 chance of death, along with potential problem with your sight, right up to blindness. As best we know, the vaccine causes severe allergic responses in 1 in a million. Your call.


On the research, Wakefield got famous with (I'll say supposed) lies, and you don't think there's a researcher or two out there that would be interested in getting famous by revealing the truth?

It's getting harder to suppress information, not easier.

If your concern is sincere, look into Wakefield more closely. He had financial ties directly to people actively suing the vaccine manufacturer (arguably the original anti-vaxxers.) His "study" was based on 12 test subjects, which were apparently improperly collected. He lost his license. His work was discredited by his co-authors.

Some of that might have been retaliation, but not all.

Figuring out the truth about vaccines is worthwhile. Don't start it by hitching your wagon to a fraud.
Click to expand...

The information against Wakefield was mostly from a drug company advocate. So it's their word against his. He denies everything Deer said.
 
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