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Thread: Thinking about 9/11

  1. #61
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    Re: Thinking about 9/11

    Having doubts about something as complex as the total collapse of a massive, let alone 3... sky scrapers is perfectly normal. This is a something unseen. On the other hand the sort of damage inflicted is also something never seen... wide body planes full of fuel slamming in the the building, no sprinklers or fire fighting... and I would add structural designs which were vulnerable to runaway progressive collapse.

    It is impossible to model the collapses on a perfect matching basis because this requires enough real time data to use in the model. All those who have attempted to model / describe the collapses in an detail are forced to used data assumptions... which of course would have to be reasonable and consistent with established science and engineering "law". And even that allows for multiple collapse sequence scenarios leading to complete collapse.

    I suspect the NIST sequences/scenarios may be possible. But I also believe that they may likely not be THE scenarios/models describing the sequences leading to collapse. It is impossible to prove one sequence/model correct and rule out all others.

    Gravity causes ALL collapses... regardless of what TRIGGERS the collapse. And once triggered the collapse is a PROCESS.... runaway and rapidly progressing as more and more integrity of the structural system is lost. As such it is import to understand the structures... and how their capacity to support themselves and super imposed loads are transferred to the foundations... and how a compromised structure fails in this task.

    Disbelief and ignorance of the engineering and physics is not a basis to speculate on explosive devices. And this is exactly what AE911T has been doing for more than a decade. Any explanation has to match the observations and data available.. regardless of how limited. There was no molten steel. And there were no steel columns forcibly ejected laterally. Asserting this is intellectually dishonest.
    Nothing is as it appears.

  2. #62
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    Re: Thinking about 9/11

    Quote Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
    Disbelief and ignorance of the engineering and physics is not a basis to speculate on explosive devices. And this is exactly what AE911T has been doing for more than a decade. Any explanation has to match the observations and data available.. regardless of how limited. There was no molten steel. And there were no steel columns forcibly ejected laterally. Asserting this is intellectually dishonest.
    And this is the issue right here.

    Truthers, no matter which conspiracy theory they believe, are ALL out for one thing. To blame the government and hold on to the thought that it was they who committed some planned, heinous crime for their benefit. They cry from the mountaintops that they are all about the truth and that those that believe the "OCT" have been either duped or are paid shills. Yet when you try and discuss the theory THEY believe in, they either move the goal posts to avoid discussion or put you on ignore. Truthers praise those in the truth movement for being brave and providing "proof" of their respective theory, but when pointed out that certain theories contradict others, they clam up.

    There is one example in this very thread that proves this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Thoreau72 View Post
    I don't give a GGD who is correct Mike. In fact, there are elements of truth in each man's analysis. I am an independent thinker more concerned with the Big Picture. Such analysis does not always require an either/or solution. Some do, some don't.

    The over-riding point is that the official narrative is absurd and impossible from every perspective.

    I was conned in 2001 just like you still are. I am able to admit how gullible I was, but that is brought into perspective by the fact that professional propagandists were and still are at work. Yes, it was a magnificently done deception, impossible without the bully pulpit of the state and its media.

    Life goes on Mike. The truth DOES set one free.
    The number of lies and incorrect pieces of evidence that have been provided by Thoreau72 is ridiculous. He's been challenged on all fronts, yet refuses to discuss them. I for one, will continue to point out these lies and misinformation whether he chooses to address them or not. His lack of response speaks volumes though.

  3. #63
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    Re: Thinking about 9/11

    Quote Originally Posted by Thoreau72 View Post
    In fact, there are elements of truth in each man's analysis. I am an independent thinker more concerned with the Big Picture.
    How about the truth in YOUR "analysis"?

    Let's start with an easy one Thoreau72. How about this claim made by you:
    Quote Originally Posted by Thoreau72 View Post
    The proper use of specially designed nuclear devices would also render boiling iron.
    Boiling iron?! That's a temperature of 5,184F?! Iron MELTS at 2,800F. Show us your evidence of temperatures at/around 5,184F. My prediction is that you'll cower behind the ignore list like usual.

  4. #64
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    Re: Thinking about 9/11

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    You can have your opinion and beliefs, no matter how misguided and wrong they are.
    That applies to us all Mike.

    Some opinions are informed and based on fact, while others are based upon falsehoods and propaganda, but yes, they are like elbows and belly buttons.

  5. #65
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    Re: Thinking about 9/11

    Quote Originally Posted by Thoreau72 View Post
    That applies to us all Mike.

    Some opinions are informed and based on fact, while others are based upon falsehoods and propaganda, but yes, they are like elbows and belly buttons.
    You demonstrate this every single day
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
    Winston Churchill



    A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.
    Winston Churchill

  6. #66
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    Re: Thinking about 9/11

    Quote Originally Posted by Thoreau72 View Post
    That applies to us all Mike.

    Some opinions are informed and based on fact, while others are based upon falsehoods and propaganda, but yes, they are like elbows and belly buttons.
    Your claim of "boiling iron" is based on "facts? Show us these facts.
    Your claim that "vehicles were strangely burned" is based on "facts"? I can provide photo of cars having the same exact burn patterns from normal fires?
    Your claim that "massive steel pieces were laterally ejected is based on "facts"? I can provide proof that a simple parabolic trajectory from pieces high up the structure can produce what you saw.
    Your claim that "Matt Tartaglia" is dead" is based on "facts"? I did a search and found nothing regarding his supposed death. Where are your "facts" regarding this?
    Your claim that "four total nukes went off" in WTC1/2 is based on "facts"? Where are those "facts"?
    Your claim of people suffering "radiation sickness" is based on "facts"? I can show you firefighting procedures for decontamination after firefighting and that cancer is caused by fighting fires and the toxic environment those fires can create.

    You mean THOSE "facts"?

  7. #67
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    Re: Thinking about 9/11

    Quote Originally Posted by Thoreau72 View Post
    That applies to us all Mike.

    Some opinions are informed and based on fact, while others are based upon falsehoods and propaganda, but yes, they are like elbows and belly buttons.
    What I find interesting is that you are ok with cherry picking certain points from Prager's and AE911T. That means much of what else they say is false or misleading. No different than your opinion of the Government reports and other non government that came to the same conclusions.

    Care to tell us how Rodriquez escaped without getting sick from radiation?

    Instead of reading some author why not read the research reports written by those who did the studies. You will find that your nuke conclusion is wrong.
    Last edited by mike2810; Today at 11:30 AM.
    "
    If we have data, let's look at the data. if all we have is opinions let's go with mine
    -barksdale
    "

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