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Cholesterol drugs

NWO_Spook said:
So, we have to take your word for it. Don't be offended if I don't.
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I would never expect anyone to take my word for it. You should think about it, and read about it, especially if you or family members are taking statin drugs. They will not help most people, and they interfere with critical life processes that are not well understood.

Do not simply trust a couple of mainstream sources.
 
zyzygy said:
I'd believe it if I saw some proof, but Good4Nothing does not do proof.
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If you had an interest you would search and investigate.
 
Sweden said:
Now let us see. Who's medical advice do I trust most? My excellent Swedish doctor, who is quite old enough to be my grand daughter, and who prescribes me statins, or some anon on a website who thinks 'for' can be best rendered by the numeral '4'? Sorry but Sophie wins.
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You can have blind faith in Sophie, or you can be skeptical and do some reading.

Consider that maybe Sophie has blind faith in the drug companies.
 
OldFatGuy said:
And now, studies are showing lower incidents of certain cancers for those enjoying statin therapies. Enough incidents to demonstrate causation.
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Yes that is where it gets really crazy. The drug companies have so much influence they get publicity for the most obviously garbage research.
 
Cholesterol-lowering statin therapy for healthy people is not as simple as 'yes' or 'no' | Insight | Pharmaceutical Journal

There are many articles that are skeptical of the drug company research on statins. This is just one of them.

If you are taking statin drugs because you want to prevent cardiovascular disease, you would have much greater success by improving your lifestyle. This is well known, almost goes without saying. Yet the drug companies are doing such a great job of promoting their products, many MDs are prescribing statins anyway.
 
Good4Nothin said:
Yes that is where it gets really crazy. The drug companies have so much influence they get publicity for the most obviously garbage research.
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Except the research is not coming from drug companies, but hospital surveys.

Changing lifestyles is not an option for those whose livers genetically produce excess cholesterol, more than 40% of the population. Vascular disease is not limited to those who don't exercise and eat too much. It is more likely for a the sufferer of a cardiac event to survive if the individual is slightly overweight. The thin die. There are no acceptable generalizations when it comes to health. We all age and as we age our bodies fail no matter how well we care for them. Whatever your problems are with the pharma industry, it is not for you to tell others how they should deal with their health issues. Your advice can murder people. Stand down.
 
OldFatGuy said:
Except the research is not coming from drug companies, but hospital surveys.

Changing lifestyles is not an option for those whose livers genetically produce excess cholesterol, more than 40% of the population. Vascular disease is not limited to those who don't exercise and eat too much. It is more likely for a the sufferer of a cardiac event to survive if the individual is slightly overweight. The thin die. There are no acceptable generalizations when it comes to health. We all age and as we age our bodies fail no matter how well we care for them. Whatever your problems are with the pharma industry, it is not for you to tell others how they should deal with their health issues. Your advice can murder people. Stand down.
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You are misinformed. CVD is mostly a disease of modern industrialized societies. When people from more traditional cultures immigrate here they start getting CVD. It is NOT mostly genetic. Only about 1% have a genetic defect that causes extremely high cholesterol. It is almost always caused by either smoking or type 2 (adult onset) diabetes.

Being thin is definitely NOT a problem! Being fat is a problem. But thin people can get type 2 diabetes also. It is caused by overly processed food, refined carbohydrates, and LACK OF EXERCISE.

If you are taking cholesterol-lowering drugs and you do not exercise, then what you are doing makes NO sense at all. You have been given very bad advice from your MD.

It is NOT mostly age and genetics. That is one of the myths.

And most drug research is funded by drug companies. Well known, not controversial. You must be getting your information from drug companies.
 
Good4Nothin said:
You are misinformed. CVD is mostly a disease of modern industrialized societies. When people from more traditional cultures immigrate here they start getting CVD. It is NOT mostly genetic. Only about 1% have a genetic defect that causes extremely high cholesterol. It is almost always caused by either smoking or type 2 (adult onset) diabetes.

Being thin is definitely NOT a problem! Being fat is a problem. But thin people can get type 2 diabetes also. It is caused by overly processed food, refined carbohydrates, and LACK OF EXERCISE.

If you are taking cholesterol-lowering drugs and you do not exercise, then what you are doing makes NO sense at all. You have been given very bad advice from your MD.

It is NOT mostly age and genetics. That is one of the myths.

And most drug research is funded by drug companies. Well known, not controversial. You must be getting your information from drug companies.
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Vascular disease has been found in the mummies of Egypt, as well as the natural mummified remains of Ötzi found in the Alps which was older. You are FOS.

Diabetes is a catch all for numerous maladies with similar symptoms, and Type II can be found among otherwise fit individuals. For the obese, it is an almost always present, but a simple cold can cause failure of the pancreas to produce quality insulin, and no one truly understands the reasons for insulin resistance development. One can practice a quality exercise regimen, avoid processed foods, and still suffer diabetes. There are many quality of life reasons for maintaining healthy exercise regimens and consuming healthy portion controlled diets. Viruses are the single largest group of suspects as a cause of both Type I and II diabetes.

Medical scientists would love to have your simplistic reasoning at their disposal, if it were on target.
 
OldFatGuy said:
Vascular disease has been found in the mummies of Egypt, as well as the natural mummified remains of Ötzi found in the Alps which was older. You are FOS.

Diabetes is a catch all for numerous maladies with similar symptoms, and Type II can be found among otherwise fit individuals. For the obese, it is an almost always present, but a simple cold can cause failure of the pancreas to produce quality insulin, and no one truly understands the reasons for insulin resistance development. One can practice a quality exercise regimen, avoid processed foods, and still suffer diabetes. There are many quality of life reasons for maintaining healthy exercise regimens and consuming healthy portion controlled diets. Viruses are the single largest group of suspects as a cause of both Type I and II diabetes.

Medical scientists would love to have your simplistic reasoning at their disposal, if it were on target.
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Oh yeah the mummies. There is NO reason to think ancient people had CVD at the rate we have it in modern societies. And NO, not because they only lived to age 30. People who survived infancy often got old, in ancient and prehistoric and modern primitive societies. And they SELDOM get CVD.

Type 2 diabetes is most often the result of the modern lifestyle. What I am saying is not controversial. What you are saying is just nonsense you're making up, to defend your lousy lifestyle.

Viruses are NOT suspected as a major cause of type 2 diabetes! That is complete nonsense. Metabolic syndrome, which is extremely common in our society, is a lifestyle disorder, and it often leads to diabetes. ALL THIS IS KNOWN AND ACCEPTED BY MAINSTREAM MEDICINE.

"One can practice a quality exercise regimen, avoid processed foods, and still suffer diabetes."

Yes one CAN. Anything is possible. But if it is extremely improbable then we can just forget about it. The odds of getting type 2 diabetes if you have a healthy lifestyle are extremely small.

Yes a major cause of insulin resistance is known. Too much glucose being shoved into muscle cells. The cells have to become resistant. The muscles are not using enough of the glucose.

Why are you so opinionated when you obviously know very little about health? Are you trying to justify your lousy lifestyle and your faith in drugs?
 
Good4Nothin said:
Why are you so opinionated when you obviously know very little about health? Are you trying to justify your lousy lifestyle and your faith in drugs?
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At age 41 I suffered my first heart attack. Atherosclerosis has been a genetic dispensation for many members of my extended family for untold generations on both sides of my family. It is also been known as the curse of eastern Europe and the EuroAsiatic steppes of Russia. Tho historically it has been more common for the men of my family to die in combat. At the time of my first cardiac event I was also diagnosed with Type I diabetes, the symptoms hidden by an excessive exercise regimen (running ten miles daily, and 4 hours minimal additional exercise), a diet based on vegetables, inclusive of fruit, and almost exclusively fish as a protein source.

I am now 70, with congestive heart disease and a brand new pacemaker/defrib device. I am working my way back toward walking 5 miles daily, a regimen of tai chi and light weights repetitions after 4 months of intermittent hospitalization and treatment for side effects from cardiac deterioration. Medications like statins, alpha blockers among others have helped me stay alive and maintain a quality active life. You don't know jack about me or how I live. You are the one who has shown himself to be opinionated with no justification and dangerous to others.

I've learned the most honest and best educated doctors are the first to admit they know little, and can only advise based on educated guesses based on observations. They, with all humility, know they are not gods. You could do with a bit of their honesty and humility, to say the least.
 
OldFatGuy said:
At age 41 I suffered my first heart attack. Atherosclerosis has been a genetic dispensation for many members of my extended family for untold generations on both sides of my family. It is also been known as the curse of eastern Europe and the EuroAsiatic steppes of Russia. Tho historically it has been more common for the men of my family to die in combat. At the time of my first cardiac event I was also diagnosed with Type I diabetes, the symptoms hidden by an excessive exercise regimen (running ten miles daily, and 4 hours minimal additional exercise), a diet based on vegetables, inclusive of fruit, and almost exclusively fish as a protein source.

I am now 70, with congestive heart disease and a brand new pacemaker/defrib device. I am working my way back toward walking 5 miles daily, a regimen of tai chi and light weights repetitions after 4 months of intermittent hospitalization and treatment for side effects from cardiac deterioration. Medications like statins, alpha blockers among others have helped me stay alive and maintain a quality active life. You don't know jack about me or how I live. You are the one who has shown himself to be opinionated with no justification and dangerous to others.

I've learned the most honest and best educated doctors are the first to admit they know little, and can only advise based on educated guesses based on observations. They, with all humility, know they are not gods. You could do with a bit of their honesty and humility, to say the least.
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I have said from the beginning of this post that a small minority of CVD patients have some kind of genetic defect that causes extremely high cholesterol. They are the only patients who really need statin drugs. You must not have read my OP.

Statin drugs are being prescribed to millions of people who will be harmed and will not benefit.
 
And type 1 diabetes can also cause CVD, and it is not usually related to lifestyle. You are confused about type 1 vs type 2, and a lot of other things. You are mostly interested in defending the drug companies.
 
Good4Nothin said:
I have said from the beginning of this post that a small minority of CVD patients have some kind of genetic defect that causes extremely high cholesterol. They are the only patients who really need statin drugs. You must not have read my OP.

Statin drugs are being prescribed to millions of people who will be harmed and will not benefit.
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I read your post thoroughly and you are FOS. When you get your medical degree post and image of it here. Till then your credulity is in the greatest doubt.

There is no confusion on my part about the differences between Type I and II diabetes. You fail to understand Type I, commonly known as juvenile diabetes, can be undetected for decades, and rarely, never diagnosed.

This isn't an issue of defending the pharma industry, it is an issue of your agenda based on false and dangerous information. You are right up there with the anti-vaccers.
 
Good4Nothin said:
I would never expect anyone to take my word for it. You should think about it, and read about it, especially if you or family members are taking statin drugs.
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That is why I asked.

They will not help most people, and they interfere with critical life processes that are not well understood.
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So you assert.

Do not simply trust a couple of mainstream sources.
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As a textual analyst, I do not trust any source especially 'alternative therapy' sites that denounce modern medicine in order to sell snake oil.
 
NWO_Spook said:
That is why I asked.



So you assert.



As a textual analyst, I do not trust any source especially 'alternative therapy' sites that denounce modern medicine in order to sell snake oil.
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It is not a choice between either mainstream pro-drug sites or snake oil sites. There is all kinds of information from all kinds of sources. It takes time to become informed.
 
OldFatGuy said:
I read your post thoroughly and you are FOS. When you get your medical degree post and image of it here. Till then your credulity is in the greatest doubt.

There is no confusion on my part about the differences between Type I and II diabetes. You fail to understand Type I, commonly known as juvenile diabetes, can be undetected for decades, and rarely, never diagnosed.

This isn't an issue of defending the pharma industry, it is an issue of your agenda based on false and dangerous information. You are right up there with the anti-vaccers.
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Right. Fall back on saying I don't have a medical degree. Neither do you, obviously. There is nothing I "failed to understand" about juvenile diabetes. You, on the other hand, failed to understand type 2 and insulin resistance.

Many things are not known to medical science, but some things are known. And you don't know them.

And my information is dangerous! Well maybe everything you disagree with should be banned from the internet.
 
And, OldFatGuy, you said 40% of the population have high cholesterol because of genetics. That is FALSE.

You have said nothing to defend the idea that people without the genetic defect should be taking statin drugs. You have ignored the whole point of this post.
 
Good4Nothin said:
Right. Fall back on saying I don't have a medical degree. Neither do you, obviously. There is nothing I "failed to understand" about juvenile diabetes. You, on the other hand, failed to understand type 2 and insulin resistance.

Many things are not known to medical science, but some things are known. And you don't know them.

And my information is dangerous! Well maybe everything you disagree with should be banned from the internet.
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Did you mean unknown? But you know them?
 
Good4Nothin said:
It is not a choice between either mainstream pro-drug sites or snake oil sites.
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I don't think I stated it was.

There is all kinds of information from all kinds of sources.
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I'm sure there are.

It takes time to become informed.
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Really? As a former university student who graduated with honours, I never would have known that.
 
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NWO_Spook said:
I don't think I stated it was.



I'm sure there are.



Really? As a former university student who graduated with honours, I never would have known that.
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By informed he means reading tosh on the internet.
 
zyzygy said:
Familial hypercholesterolaemia (FH for short) is an inherited condition which can lead to extremely high cholesterol levels. It's passed down through families in the genes.

Without treatment, FH can lead to heart disease at a very young age. But once it's been diagnosed, it can be treated with medicines and a healthy lifestyle.
What is Familial Hypercholesterolaemia (FH) - HEART UK
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He said it's 40%, but it's about one in 250.
 
Good4Nothin said:
He said it's 40%, but it's about one in 250.
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Keep blustering with ignorance. More than 40% of the general population has a predisposition to high cholesterol, and most won't see the associated problems until their later years, and some never, having genetic protections builtin. Having high cholesterol is not a guarantee for having vascular issues, having higher than the norm triglycerides is far more dangerous. You keep proving you don't know jack.

I know of individuals with genetic caused cholesterol content in their systems greater than 400, and having no evidence of vascular issues, living well into their 80's and beyond. I know others with apparent normal cholesterol counts who have suffered cardia blockages, heart attacks, carotid artery blockages and strokes, dying in their 20's and 30's. Suspect is a group of viruses which carry calcified lipids and sugars attaching them to blood vessel walls, another which is suspect of breaking calcification hot spots causing blockages. Reducing the lipids in the blood stream can prevent calcification. How much or how little is not understood. But you know all. Pathetic.

Do us all a favor, don't take statins. Make yourself happy. Make us happy. Bye.
 
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