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You believe Jesus was at least a man who did exist, right?

OscarLevant said:
There is a logical path pointing to the idea that Jesus was an alien/human hybrid on a mission to bring a new religion to a ever growing chaotic earth of humans. It would explain the "immaculate conception", and provide a logical basis for how , indeed, an immaculate conception is possible ( that the concept was not a myth, there was an alien induced immaculate conception -- as there is evidence for this in current times ). I suggest reading David Jacobs's book entitled "walking among us" ( it's not about jesus, but it will explain non coital pregnancies by aliens who are creating hybrids to populate the earth, snf this is going on, according to Jacobs. seems far fetched, until you read the book, it becomes more plausible for there are many details supporting it ).
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If you can believe in aliens, it should be a giant leap to believe Jesus walked among us.

BTW: I'm not saying they're aren't aliens.
 
soylentgreen said:
Suggest you look up the legend of spartacus. Also a figure who left a wake. Yet like jesus there is not one bit of convincing evidence that he ever existed. What's more there is no reason to assume he existed other than like jesus there is an abundance of stories about him. But there is also, like jesus, good reason to assume he did not.
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Also not quite true.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartacus

https://www.google.com/search?clien...2......0....1.........33i10j30i10.ow4PcJY3ZCY
 
Wayne Jr said:
I don't relate Jesus to aliens in the first place for that to be a logical question. The existence of extraterrestrial intelligent life is a mathematical certainty while the existence of a supernatural human is not. The 2 topics are not related.
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It's not Jesus and aliens that are being related.


It's the basis for those who accept Jesus walked the earth, as a man, with only circumstantial evidence, but reject that aliens
haven't visited earth, but for circumstantial evidence. "Circumstantial evidence producing opposite results" is the thing, here. Nothing more.

See?

Circumstantial evidence for the former produces acceptance, but not for the latter.

I see this as an inconsistency. I ask for those who are exhibiting this inconsistency, why?
 
WCH said:
If you can believe in aliens, it should be a giant leap to believe Jesus walked among us.

BTW: I'm not saying they're aren't aliens.
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If you saw, in the ocean, a wake, that physics and math calculate have existed for 2000 years, one can reasonably conclude a mammoth event caused the wake. That is why, as a non-christian, I accept that Jesus was a man who walked the earth, and he was one helluva dude. Or perhaps aliens implanted the whole thing in the minds of men and women of antiquity, who knows. Something caused that wake. That, plus the evidence of today, either way, we wind up with aliens among us.
 
OscarLevant said:
If you saw, in the ocean, a wake, that physics and math calculate have existed for 2000 years, one can reasonably conclude a mammoth event caused the wake. That is why, as a non-christian, I accept that Jesus was a man who walked the earth, and he was one helluva dude. Or perhaps aliens implanted the whole thing in the minds of men and women of antiquity, who knows. Something caused that wake. That, plus the evidence of today, either way, we wind up with aliens among us.
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How many Daves or Joes or Freds are there? To imagine that there was only one man of that name Jesus at that time, to whom all these tales are attached, is a stretch. The mythic half-alien Jesus needs no actual man basis, he's a hotch-potch of pre-existing legends, with a personal twist.
 
OscarLevant said:
I accept that Jesus, at the minimum, was a man who at one time in our history, walked the earth. I also accept that aliens have, and are continuing to, visit this earth.

The evidence for both is circumstantial, but you are correct, there is, indeed, more physical evidence for alien visitation noting that there is no physical proof that Jesus actually walked the earth. That "physical evidence" which is mostly that of implants in human bodies for unsolved purposes, when subjected to lab test, revealed more questions than there are answers, that of complex structures, nano tubes, exotic materials not abundant on earth, and not likely to exist in your average shard that might get embedded in ones nose, behind one's eyes, in ear canals, in various parts of the body, as well as deeply embedded in the brain, etc. which are confounding scientists, such that, coupled with stories of alien abductions, operations performed on abductees describing these implantations, thousands of such stories which tell the same story over and over and over again in abductee after abductee, stories garnered under hypnosis using controlled procedures designed to winnow out natural human tendencies to embellish, suggeststhat it does seem, indeed, establish there is more evidence for aliens than there is for Christ.


are there fakers? IN this field, it's riddled with huckters. One must dig deep to separate the wheat from the chaff.
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The urge to ridicule here would be my first response. But i will forgo the pleasure as it would be an unnecessary cruelty. If you wish to believe this stuff, then fine. I see no harm in it. But i see nothing more than another von danicken here.
 
OscarLevant said:
If you do a deep study of zen, eastern philosophy, the tao te ching, etc., you can say the same of, for example, Lao Tsu.

If you read the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas, after having studied eastern philosophy, it's concepts, and the meanings thereof, one might see
a deep similarity between the 114 (direct) quotes of Christ in that text, and that of eastern philosophy, which enigmatic in it's scope, such that one I can hardly believe such is the work of mere priests whose agendas were to control, largely, their own flocks at the times they existed. I'm inclined to believe such enlightened men did, indeed, walk the earth.

If you do read it, and cannot sense it, there is no way to really explain it to you, in 25 words or less. I arrived at that conclusion after a lifetime of meditation upon such works. One could argue this, but that is not my objective, for I don't care if one accepts the above, or not. Just explaining it from my perspective. You are free to reject it. i wont' belabor the point beyond this comment.

You can go pretty far with just the rational mind of reason, but the peak of conciousness that is possible, in terms of pure awareness, simple reason can only take one to the foothill of that mighty peak. The rest of the way one can only hint, paint with metaphors, point to, dance around, etc., it's up to the individual to get it, and that takes time, lots of time, infinite curiosity, and faith in the idea that it is there to be achieved, all one has to do is embark on that journey, within.

But what do I know? I'm just a guy on the internet with a computer.

Follow your own path, thats' about all one can do, in this world.
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You speak of faith. Which of itself is not a problem. It is when theists make up crap to give them something to hang their faith on that it becomes a problem.
 
soylentgreen said:
The urge to ridicule here would be my first response. But i will forgo the pleasure as it would be an unnecessary cruelty. If you wish to believe this stuff, then fine. I see no harm in it. But i see nothing more than another von danicken here.
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Well, I'm really not quite the lover of woo you might assume I am. I'm actually getting much of what I believe about aliens from the evidence. I always state, when it comes to beliefs, that if I don't know it for a fact, that it is a belief, that I dont make the mistake of upholding a belief as "truth". Many in religion do not make that distinction, and some even kill infidels. They are especially bad.

I don't like Von Danicken that much. His scope is way to narrow for me. Moreover, that you would say so tells me that you haven't studied the subject much, or have made a lot of assumptions about the poor productions on TV as representative of the field as a whole which is sad because it most certainly is far from it ( because the really good stuff never gets on TV, not in any big way ) or correct me if I'm wrong about you on this.


I don't really know what the truth is, I just toy with a lot of this stuff.

1. Because I'm not a Christian, though I am curious about the nature of things, it's just that religion doesn't do it for me, at all but....

2 , that doesn't mean necessarily that I don't believe Christ walked the earth, that I dont' necessarily not believe in the virgin birth ( but it's not magic or god doing it, either ) and that he didn't have special (alien/hybrid) abilities.


I do believe in aliens, I do believe they have visited the earth, and I do believe they are vastly superiour to the Human Race.

I don't believe this just because i want it to be true. What I want to be true is that they are good, but I dont think they have our
best interest in mind, not after reading "Walking Among US", by David Jacobs (phd, professor at Temple University ).

What they are up to, that's the open question. If you are not at all curious, I urge to keep an open mind, and amp up your curiositiy a thousand fold, and wade through tons of chaff, and trust me, there is wheat there, hard to find, but really good wheat, if you just take the time.


I'm a little more complex, I believe in the immortal soul, that life has a spiritual basis, but I don't believe in an "intelligent designer", to me, that's archaic and simplistic. I have no idea as to the why and beginnings of the Universe ( if indeed there is a beginning ) nor would I even argue about it.
 
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soylentgreen said:
You speak of faith. Which of itself is not a problem. It is when theists make up crap to give them something to hang their faith on that it becomes a problem.
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True, and, of course, at least for me, I just let it be another's problem. I'm not interested in debating faith, not at least for those who believe a legit rebuttal is to quote scripture, for if someone cannot grasp what circular logic is, I'm not interested in discussing the issue with such persons. and they do exist on this forum.

To me, to have a faith like Christianity, that's a bit much.


I pare it down to a more logical (imho), though possibly wishful thinking level, for example:

I have faith that, in the journey of life, nature has something ultimately good in store for us, that there is a spiritual basis to life, and that life is permanent. I have no faith in the concept of an intelligent designer, that idea seems to be born out of a weak imagination.

Once achieved, life cannot be taken away (though one's body can be perished, or wither and die, of course ).

I have faith only in that idea. The rest is up to one to discover what life is all about, if at all possible, and it might take a few millenia or two, to figure it out.

My fave is this one:

I believe in reincarnation, though I won't bet my life on it.

That's just about it, for me.
 
soylentgreen said:
Not quite. All we have of Jesus is stories. Same as all we have of Harry, potter.
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Except everyone knows Harry is a made up character. Your comparison doesn't work. The creator of Harry is alive, active on social media, available for an interview, and there is no mystery around the formation of the character.
 
Wayne Jr said:
Except everyone knows Harry is a made up character. Your comparison doesn't work. The creator of Harry is alive, active on social media, available for an interview, and there is no mystery around the formation of the character.
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No one knows that jesus is anything but a made up character. It is simply faith and a never ending litany of bad arguments that keep theists believing a character from a book full of fantasy stories was real.
 
OscarLevant said:
But, let's see. You do believe he was a real person, but there is no concrete evidence that he was a real person...Because of the gargantuan wake of Jesus, his legacy, I can see no other possible conclusion that he was a real man.
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Few historians would agree that there's no evidence for Jesus.

OscarLevant said:
The point is, if you have accepted the fact that a real person who was the ultimate cause of the movement called Christianity, whether he was divine, the Son Of God, not being the argument, how come, then.....

Why will you not accept the idea that Aliens have visited, and most likely contacted many, either voluntarily though most likely ( for most) involuntarily, on earth?

Again, we're not talking religion here, we're talking popularity. And no, I'm not suggesting that aliens, being as famous as Jesus ( they come close, though ) should necessarily be believed in, it's just that, given that you will accept the existence of Jesus, without concrete evidence, just for the abundant circumstantial evidence, and that there is abundant circumstantial evidence for aliens, ( though not impacting in any spiritual way, but that is not at debate ) why would you disbelieve in their having visited the earth ?


ps. please don't bug me about the run on sentence, just read it through and it does work. :)
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Wait a second. You concluded that Jesus must have existed "Because of the gargantuan wake of... his legacy..." IF there was no gargantuan wake of legacy you otherwise would not have believed, right?

So where's the gargantuan wake of alien's legacy for you to believe in them?
 
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beancounter said:
The fours Gospels were written between 60-95 years after his alleged existence. Back then, a generation was about 15 years, so 60-95 years is about 4-6 generations later.

4-6 generations is plenty of time for a story to get embellished, and for a legend to grow from little or nothing.

Therefore it is within the realm of possibility that Jesus didn't exist.
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Your dating for the Gospels is way, way off.

Scores of scholars date the NT as all first century (first link), and the first mention of the resurrection of Jesus was within a few years of the event (second link).

A Chronological Order of The New Testament Books

https://righterreport.com/2013/01/17/1064/
 
Logicman said:
Few historians would agree that there's no evidence for Jesus.



Wait a second. You concluded that Jesus must have existed "Because of the gargantuan wake of... his legacy..." IF there was no gargantuan wake of legacy you otherwise would not have believed, right?

So where's the gargantuan wake of alien's legacy for you to believe in them?
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Allow me to qualify this further:

There is a gargantuan wake, though I wouldn't characterize it as "legacy", for aliens.

It's the size of the wake, and not the legacy of one or the other, that moves my opinion on both fronts.
 
OscarLevant said:
Allow me to qualify this further:

There is a gargantuan wake, though I wouldn't characterize it as "legacy", for aliens.

It's the size of the wake, and not the legacy of one or the other, that moves my opinion on both fronts.
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I don't see the gargantuan wake for aliens. It's more like a Bigfoot fettish for a very small crowd of people.
 
OscarLevant said:
But, let's see. You do believe he was a real person, but there is no concrete evidence that he was a real person.

Now then, you believe he was a real person because the wake that was left in his name, well, that's such an abundance and thus overwhelming, though technically circumstantial evidence, one must conclude, therefore, he was real.

I would. Because of the gargantuan wake of Jesus, his legacy, I can see no other possible conclusion that he was a real man.


Now then, as for divinity, that's an article of faith, noting that this is not the point of this thread, so I dont want to comment on that.


The point is, if you have accepted the fact that a real person who was the ultimate cause of the movement called Christianity, whether he was divine, the Son Of God, not being the argument, how come, then.....

Why will you not accept the idea that Aliens have visited, and most likely contacted many, either voluntarily though most likely ( for most) involuntarily, on earth?

Again, we're not talking religion here, we're talking popularity. And no, I'm not suggesting that aliens, being as famous as Jesus ( they come close, though ) should necessarily be believed in, it's just that, given that you will accept the existence of Jesus, without concrete evidence, just for the abundant circumstantial evidence, and that there is abundant circumstantial evidence for aliens, ( though not impacting in any spiritual way, but that is not at debate ) why would you disbelieve in their having visited the earth ?


ps. please don't bug me about the run on sentence, just read it through and it does work. :)
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I work with Jesus. He’s in our Facilities department and really nice guy.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Technically he would be an alien human hybrid

God or the holy spirit are not from this earth, while Mary was.
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He was a cosmic Jewish zombie, who was his own father that could make you live forever, if you telepathically accept him as your master and symbolically eat his flesh, so he can remove an evil force from your soul, because a rib woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical fruit tree. Think about the drugs consumed in order to think that up..
 
Logicman said:
I don't see the gargantuan wake for aliens. It's more like a Bigfoot fettish for a very small crowd of people.
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How well have you studied the issue?

A cursory glance at books in books stores, but never buy.

Cursory watch on TV shows on aliens, by Sci, HIstory, channels?

Read many books?

Attended Mufon Lectures on Abductions ? ( where I find the best evidence is )


have you interviews abductees? How many?


I..,e what is degree/level of your involvement with the subject.
 
OscarLevant said:
How well have you studied the issue?

A cursory glance at books in books stores, but never buy.

Cursory watch on TV shows on aliens, by Sci, HIstory, channels?

Read many books?

Attended Mufon Lectures on Abductions ? ( where I find the best evidence is )


have you interviews abductees? How many?


I..,e what is degree/level of your involvement with the subject.
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We studied it at the university I attended. It didn't wash.
 
HenryChinaski said:
He was a cosmic Jewish zombie, who was his own father that could make you live forever, if you telepathically accept him as your master and symbolically eat his flesh, so he can remove an evil force from your soul, because a rib woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical fruit tree. Think about the drugs consumed in order to think that up..
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Jesus was his own father? You couldn't have dreamed that folly up yourself. I wonder how many drugs someone took to think that one up?
 
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