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Pre-civilizations spawned by time travelers?

Deuce said:
Thermodynamics! Why didn't I think of that? You're absolutely right! Life evolving into more complex life and expanding over the entire earth to the green planet we have today would require a tremendous input of energy. Why, you'd need some kind of massive fusion reactor to approach that sort of energy input. Where would that much energy possibly come from? I'm going to go work on my tan while I ponder this conundrum.
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That's a hard one. A fusion reactor on or near the Earth? Mmmmmm....Aliens! Oh wait, how did the alien life start?
 
Thoreau72 said:
Like trying to fit the square peg into the round hole, the data IS puzzling if one accepts traditional history accounts at face value.
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Which accounts?
 
Deuce said:
Life evolving into more complex life...
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Actually it would be NON-Life into more complex life, which is the point. Ain't happening, never has ;)
 
Davey said:
Actually it would be NON-Life into more complex life, which is the point. Ain't happening, never has ;)
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Not relevant to my counter-argument. I'll spell it out for you, since my sarcasm was too much for some to pierce:

There's a massive, constant input of energy into the earth. Thermodynamics is not violated.
 
Deuce said:
Not relevant to my counter-argument. I'll spell it out for you, since my sarcasm was too much for some to pierce:

There's a massive, constant input of energy into the earth. Thermodynamics is not violated.
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I caught the sarcasm :)

We are talking before the earth was formed, where did that initial energy source come from if it wasn't from God?
 
Davey said:
I caught the sarcasm :)

We are talking before the earth was formed, .
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No, we're not. You brought up life from non-life, (which, incidentally, isn't evolution). That requires an earth.
 
Exquisitor said:
Pre-civilizations spawned by time travelers?

I've been trying to find a common scale between evolution and Earth's pre-history civilizations; where did they come from?

If we just evolved from apes in the last sixty thousand years, where did pre-man come from?

Are Scientology, "I AM", Hare Krishna all wrong?

Did pre-man come from 1) Jumped here and took bodies that would come along 2) Time traveled 3) Dimensional 4) Never existed?
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Basically speaking pre-civilization began when a small community of hunter gatherers decided to stay in one place rather than continue being nomadic. It wasn't easy, but staying put and building permanent shelter had its advantages. Eventually someone figured out how to collect seeds and grow crop. Probably the first guy who made the connection between water and plant growth. After that, the rest is, how they say, history.
 
I'd be more inclined to believe that advanced aliens interfered with the human trajectory (genetically or technologically) than a time traveler. The oldest countries in the world like China and India all have stories dating back pre-AD about a being who showed them rudimentary agriculture and medicine. The ancient stories of Sumer are even more insane -- actual "Gods" who came in ships from the sky, along with their limited-verbal descriptions of technology that we are only just beginning to understand the nature of today. So... while I'm not a staunch believer, I think the alien theory has more credence.

I'm also inclined to believe that human understanding of temporal dynamics is somehow limited or biased, so our notions of time travel are kind of silly, as though we are looking at things wrong somehow. Also it appears that in dimensional mechanics there are spatial dimensions that operate outside or beyond space-time which means things can travel to or occupy multiple vectors simultaneously, regardless of distance. It's likely our physical limitations or something about the state of our consciousness which prevents us from seeing this.
 
Deuce said:
No, we're not. You brought up life from non-life, (which, incidentally, isn't evolution). That requires an earth.
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I think we are in two different discussions. RAMOS and I was talking about the very beginning.
 
Northern Light said:
I'd be more inclined to believe that advanced aliens interfered with the human trajectory (genetically or technologically) than a time traveler. The oldest countries in the world like China and India all have stories dating back pre-AD about a being who showed them rudimentary agriculture and medicine. The ancient stories of Sumer are even more insane -- actual "Gods" who came in ships from the sky, along with their limited-verbal descriptions of technology that we are only just beginning to understand the nature of today. So... while I'm not a staunch believer, I think the alien theory has more credence.
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Why is it people are so quick to believe in outer space goblins, just because a bunch of stories are told about it? Yet there are at least 295 "Legends" written all over the world, in caves from centuries ago, independently describing a Man, and his family of eight on a giant boat with a bunch of animals aboard, while the whole earth is covered under water?
 
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Davey said:
I think we are in two different discussions. RAMOS and I was talking about the very beginning.
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Correct, you are confused. I was responding to this post:

Davey said:
The text books regarding Evolution will tell you that life began from the torrential rains hitting hard against the Mountainside for millions of years, and as mineral deposit started slowly draining into the ocean depths, a chemical primordial complex soup started to percolate, and from a state of nothingness, life began.

In other words they teach that before the Apes, that we came from a bucket of slime from nonliving matter.

It violates the law of conservation of energy and the second law of thermodynamics, meaning it is scientifically impossible what they say predates the Apes. But your question is 'what do they say.'

And what I just told you is what they say verbatim.
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This post is clearly talking about an earth that already exists, and claims the second law of thermodynamics is violated.

This is clearly not true because a net input of energy to the earth is obvious. The sun adds an enormous amount of energy to the system. Thermodynamics is not violated.


You seem to also want to discuss abiogenesis. (life from non-life) This is often confused with evolution, but they are separate. Evolution discusses how life changes over time, not how it began in the first place.

If you think life-from-non-life is impossible, I'd ask this: what are you made of?

You might say a brain, skin, bones, etc. What's that made of? Lots of individual cells of various types. We can keep breaking things down. Atoms, you're made of atoms. You've probably heard the human body is mostly water, by weight. What's water? Hydrogen and oxygen. Carbon is next on the list. Plus a bunch of other miscellaneous stuff. Calcium and whatnot. None of these things are alive. At a base level, you are made entirely of things that aren't alive. And yet, here you are. Posting on the internet, while breathing. Life can't come from non-life? We have absolute proof that it does! All of us.
 
Davey said:
Why is it people are so quick to believe in outer space goblins, just because a bunch of stories are told about it? Yet there are at least 295 "Legends" written all over the world, in caves from centuries ago, independently describing a Man, and his family of eight on a giant boat with a bunch of animals aboard, while the whole earth is covered under water?
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Show me pictures of those caves.
 
Davey said:
Why is it people are so quick to believe in outer space goblins, just because a bunch of stories are told about it? Yet there are at least 295 "Legends" written all over the world, in caves from centuries ago, independently describing a Man, and his family of eight on a giant boat with a bunch of animals aboard, while the whole earth is covered under water?
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(Citation needed)
 
Davey said:
Why is it people are so quick to believe in outer space goblins, just because a bunch of stories are told about it? Yet there are at least 295 "Legends" written all over the world, in caves from centuries ago, independently describing a Man, and his family of eight on a giant boat with a bunch of animals aboard, while the whole earth is covered under water?
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Because the statistical probability of aliens existing and having visited Earth is still higher than the existence of the Biblical flood.
 
Exquisitor said:
Pre-civilizations spawned by time travelers?

I've been trying to find a common scale between evolution and Earth's pre-history civilizations; where did they come from?

If we just evolved from apes in the last sixty thousand years, where did pre-man come from?

Are Scientology, "I AM", Hare Krishna all wrong?

Did pre-man come from 1) Jumped here and took bodies that would come along 2) Time traveled 3) Dimensional 4) Never existed?
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My dad is a cave man and his dad is a homo-erectus but it is said that his dad was phh... Australopithecus.

Don't even get me started on the quadrupeds on my mom's side...
 
Bodhisattva said:
My dad is a cave man and his dad is a homo-erectus but it is said that his dad was phh... Australopithecus.

Don't even get me started on the quadrupeds on my mom's side...
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I guess you just have to accept science like a religion and that's that?
 
Mr Person said:
Who knows, who knows...

The main thing we know about physics is that we cannot possibly have the full picture. But, quantum mechanics demands the existence of wormholes (smaller than atoms and, I think, subatomic particles, but it's been a while; they also exist for the tiniest fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a second) that really do connect different points of space-time.

There's no attempt at a theory that I'm aware of that tries to describe how one might go about capturing, stabalizing, and expand. But, if those are at least possible, well, who knows as long as we don't have the complete picture (and I suspect it is fundamentally impossible to know one has the complete picture, for that would require knowledge greater than the great picture. If that doesn't make sense, consider: the basic idiocy of "intelligent design" re: evolution is that in order to know what must and must not be created by a deity, one must have the deity's level of knowledge. Same for knowing one has the complete picture of physics in this universe).
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We know that faster than light and time travel are possible because God does it and although you can't prove there's a God his existence is proof of other theorems.
 
Northern Light said:
Because the statistical probability of aliens existing and having visited Earth is still higher than the existence of the Biblical flood.
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The story of the flood is in the Bible because it is a common pastime to build an ark and be lone survivor on a planet and it just so happens upon approach to this harmonic time in History there was a comet strike in the South Indian Ocean about twenty eight O seven BC. And there was torrential rains and everybody wished they'd had an Ark.

The comet was three miles wide and made an eighteen mile wide crater.
 
Exquisitor said:
The story of the flood is in the Bible because it is a common pastime to build an ark and be lone survivor on a planet and it just so happens upon approach to this harmonic time in History there was a comet strike in the South Indian Ocean about twenty eight O seven BC. And there was torrential rains and everybody wished they'd had an Ark.

The comet was three miles wide and made an eighteen mile wide crater.
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People are always building Arks here.
 
Exquisitor said:
The story of the flood is in the Bible because it is a common pastime to build an ark and be lone survivor on a planet and it just so happens upon approach to this harmonic time in History there was a comet strike in the South Indian Ocean about twenty eight O seven BC. And there was torrential rains and everybody wished they'd had an Ark.

The comet was three miles wide and made an eighteen mile wide crater.
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lol well... I could accept if the Ark story was just allegorical because there is no evidence that there was a flood of those proportions. Regional floods, sure... but nothing spanning continents or the globe.
 
Northern Light said:
lol well... I could accept if the Ark story was just allegorical because there is no evidence that there was a flood of those proportions. Regional floods, sure... but nothing spanning continents or the globe.
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And no building arks as a common pastime.
 
I watched a pretty interesting documentary on man discovering the grasses last night. Clearly, this was a huge factor in establishing civilization, both in EurAsia and the Americas. Not only did they learn to eat the wild grass, which then allowed man to settle in one place. But, they also learned to gather the seeds and replant...and engineer, shortly thereafter. It was kind of an amazing thing to see.
 
Exquisitor said:
...if we just evolved from apes in the last sixty thousand years, where did pre-man come from?
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We didn't evolve from apes

Man and modern day apes had a common ancestor.

Man has been around for 100,000-200,000 years.


...Are Scientology, "I AM", Hare Krishna all wrong?
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About what ?

...Did pre-man come from 1) Jumped here and took bodies that would come along 2) Time traveled 3) Dimensional 4) Never existed?
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No, our common ancestors evolved from even more distant common ancestors.

Man and bananas have a common ancestor (sharing 50% DNA as they do)
 
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