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Question for UFO & Alien skeptics

OscarLevant said:
Did not Santilli, the source of the film, admit it was fake? but he admitted it was a filmed reconstruction of the original, which was alleged authentic, which had deteriorated, he said only two frames of the film were from the original, but I doubt it. I have my doubts. I don't know about the scotch tape, got a URL?
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(USAF description) Some of the early developmental radar targets were manufactured by a toy or novelty company. These targets were made up of ...acetate and/or cloth reinforcing tape... Some of the targets were also assembled with purplish-pink tape with symbols on it.

(Pflock description) "The manufacturer used "sticky tape" to reinforce the structure, lapping it over the struts and securing it to both sides of the reflector foil. ... This tape was clear or whitish, about two inches wide. It had pink and purple flower-like figures on it. Charles Moore remembers these figures as being "embossed on the back of the tape" and not very bright in color but having "very sharp edges, sharply incised."

(SKEP) Many witnesses of the debris described tape with flower designs or hieroglyphics on it. Moore recalls that the reinforcing tape used on NYU targets had curious markings. "There were about four of us who were involved in this, and all remember that our targets had sort of a stylized, flowerlike design. I have prepared, in my life, probably more than a hundred of these targets for flight. And every time I have prepared one of these targets, I have always wondered what the purpose of that tape marking was. But . . . a major named John Peterson, laughed . . . and said 'What do you expect when you get your targets made by a toy factory?'"

Roswell flower tape
 
zyzygy said:
(USAF description) Some of the early developmental radar targets were manufactured by a toy or novelty company. These targets were made up of ...acetate and/or cloth reinforcing tape... Some of the targets were also assembled with purplish-pink tape with symbols on it.

(Pflock description) "The manufacturer used "sticky tape" to reinforce the structure, lapping it over the struts and securing it to both sides of the reflector foil. ... This tape was clear or whitish, about two inches wide. It had pink and purple flower-like figures on it. Charles Moore remembers these figures as being "embossed on the back of the tape" and not very bright in color but having "very sharp edges, sharply incised."

(SKEP) Many witnesses of the debris described tape with flower designs or hieroglyphics on it. Moore recalls that the reinforcing tape used on NYU targets had curious markings. "There were about four of us who were involved in this, and all remember that our targets had sort of a stylized, flowerlike design. I have prepared, in my life, probably more than a hundred of these targets for flight. And every time I have prepared one of these targets, I have always wondered what the purpose of that tape marking was. But . . . a major named John Peterson, laughed . . . and said 'What do you expect when you get your targets made by a toy factory?'"

Roswell flower tape
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Ahh, I recall this but I didn't recall it being referred to as tape. I beam, or something like that.

Well, what does Marcell have to say (you didn't inlcude his reply) ?

JESSE MARCEL JR.
(KPFA) [The Air Force claims that the strange writing on metal fragments that Marcel and others saw was nothing more than transparent tape, with a flowery pattern, used to hold balsa wood sticks to the balloon assembly. Marcel disagrees.] "It certainly didn't look like tape. I didn't see anything that looked like tape, to my recollection. I've seen drawings of the tape they're talking about. Again the writing, as I recall, was entirely inside, or at least along the surface of one of those beams, and it didn't extend beyond it, like the drawings that they showed. It [the writing on the beam] was not on tape."
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OscarLevant said:
Ahh, I recall this but I didn't recall it being referred to as tape. I beam, or something like that.

Well, what does Marcell have to say (you didn't inlcude his reply) ?
Click to expand...

On June 14, 1947, William Brazel, a foreman working on the Foster homestead, noticed strange clusters of debris approximately 30 miles (50 km) north of Roswell, New Mexico. This date—or "about three weeks" before July 8—appeared in later stories featuring Brazel, but the initial press release from the Roswell Army Air Field (RAAF) said the find was "sometime last week," suggesting Brazel found the debris in early July. Brazel told the Roswell Daily Record that he and his son saw a "large area of bright wreckage made up of rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather tough paper and sticks." He paid little attention to it but returned on July 4 with his son, wife and daughter to gather up the material. Some accounts have described Brazel as having gathered some of the material earlier, rolling it together and stashing it under some brush. The next day, Brazel heard reports about "flying discs" and wondered if that was what he had picked up. On July 7, Brazel saw Sheriff Wilcox and "whispered kinda confidential like" that he may have found a flying disc. Another account quotes Wilcox as saying Brazel reported the object on July 6.

Wilcox called RAAF Major Jesse Marcel and a "man in plainclothes" accompanied Brazel back to the ranch where more pieces were picked up. "[We] spent a couple of hours Monday afternoon [July 7] looking for any more parts of the weather device", said Marcel. "We found a few more patches of tinfoil and rubber."

As described in the July 9, 1947 edition of the Roswell Daily Record,

The balloon which held it up, if that was how it worked, must have been 12 feet long, [Brazel] felt, measuring the distance by the size of the room in which he sat. The rubber was smoky gray in color and scattered over an area about 200 yards in diameter. When the debris was gathered up, the tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about three feet long and 7 or 8 inches thick, while the rubber made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long and about 8 inches thick. In all, he estimated, the entire lot would have weighed maybe five pounds. There was no sign of any metal in the area which might have been used for an engine, and no sign of any propellers of any kind, although at least one paper fin had been glued onto some of the tinfoil. There were no words to be found anywhere on the instrument, although there were letters on some of the parts. Considerable Scotch tape and some tape with flowers printed upon it had been used in the construction. No strings or wires were to be found but there were some eyelets in the paper to indicate that some sort of attachment may have been used.
https://www.mufon.com/roswell-ufo-retrieval---1947.html


On June 4th, the Alamogordo Army Air Force base released Mogul Flight #4, part of a high-altitude balloon array, each some 600 feet long, designed to monitor sound waves from Soviet nuclear tests. It was constructed of sheets of tin foil, balsa wood, Scotch tape, and rubber. Days later, it crash-landed in the desert some 30 miles southeast of Corona, New Mexico, and 75 miles northwest of Roswell.

On or about June 14, 1947, “Mack” Brazel, a ranch foreman, found some debris in the desert about seven or eight miles from his sheep ranch—precisely in the area of the balloon crash—scattered over a football field-sized area; he later described it as consisting of sheets of tinfoil, rubber strips, balsa struts partially covered with tape, and “tough paper.” He ignored the material.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-paranormal/201205/roswell-revisited
 
Furthermore, "Considerable scotch tape and some tape with flowers printed upon it had been used in the construction. No string or wire were to be found, but there were some eyelets in the paper to indicate that some sort of attachment may have been used".

Brazel's descriptions correspond with the recollection of Bessie Brazel Schreiber, Brazel's daughter, who claims she was shown by her father, "sticks, like kite sticks, attached to some of the pieces [of foil-like material] with a whitish tape" and "tape [which] was about two or three inches wide and had flower-like designs on it". [4]

"There was what appeared to be pieces of heavily waxed paper and a sort of aluminium-like foil", she added. [5]

Loretta Proctor, Brazel's neighbour, confirmed that Mac, "said there was more stuff there, like a tape that had some sort of figures on it". [6] "There was also something he described as tape which had printing on it. The colour of the printing was a kind of purple", she recalled. [7]

The Day Before Roswell - UFO Evidence

"..might have been as large as a table top. The balloon which held it up, if that is how it worked, must have been about 12 feet long, he felt, measuring the distance by the size of the room in which he sat. The rubber was smoky gray in color and scattered over an area about 200 yards in diameter. When the debris was gathered up the tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about three feet long and 7 or 8 inches thick, while the rubber made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long and about 8 inches thick. In all, he estimated, the entire lot would have weighed maybe five pounds. There was no sign of any metal in the area which night have been used for an engine and no sign of any propellers of any kind. Although at least one paper fin had been glued onto some of the tinfoil. There were no words to be found anywhere on the instrument although there were letters on some of the parts. Considerable scotch tape and some tape with flowers printed upon it had been used in the construction. No string or wire were to be found but there were some eyelets in the paper to indicate that some sort of attachment may have been used. Brazel said that he had previously found two weather balloons on the ranch, but that what he found this time did not in any way resemble either of these."
ROSWELL INCIDENT REPORT
 
Since what Brazel was describing could not possibly be an alien spaceship, Roswell believers need to discredit Brazel’s interview. They claim he was lying and had been coerced by the military (3). In UFO Crash at Roswell, Randle and Schmitt describe this as “the beginning of the cover-up that lasted, almost intact, for forty years.” (4) However, on the same page they also quote Brazel saying in the same interview that it was not a weather balloon which he found. This is meant to be proof that it was not a weather balloon which crashed. This means that either the military cover-up did not do a very good job of threatening Brazel and keeping him in line and he managed to slip the “truth” in, or there was no attempt to coerce Brazel at all and he was simply reporting what he saw. He said it was not an ordinary weather balloon because it was a Project Mogul balloon train, and it was not like any weather balloon he had seen before.

https://malcolmnicholson.wordpress.com/what-really-crashed-at-roswell-part-two/
 
zyzygy said:
On June 14, 1947, William Brazel, a foreman working on the Foster homestead, noticed strange clusters of debris approximately 30 miles (50 km) north of Roswell, New Mexico. This date—or "about three weeks" before July 8—appeared in later stories featuring Brazel, but the initial press release from the Roswell Army Air Field (RAAF) said the find was "sometime last week," suggesting Brazel found the debris in early July. Brazel told the Roswell Daily Record that he and his son saw a "large area of bright wreckage made up of rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather tough paper and sticks." He paid little attention to it but returned on July 4 with his son, wife and daughter to gather up the material. Some accounts have described Brazel as having gathered some of the material earlier, rolling it together and stashing it under some brush. The next day, Brazel heard reports about "flying discs" and wondered if that was what he had picked up. On July 7, Brazel saw Sheriff Wilcox and "whispered kinda confidential like" that he may have found a flying disc. Another account quotes Wilcox as saying Brazel reported the object on July 6.

Wilcox called RAAF Major Jesse Marcel and a "man in plainclothes" accompanied Brazel back to the ranch where more pieces were picked up. "[We] spent a couple of hours Monday afternoon [July 7] looking for any more parts of the weather device", said Marcel. "We found a few more patches of tinfoil and rubber."

As described in the July 9, 1947 edition of the Roswell Daily Record,

The balloon which held it up, if that was how it worked, must have been 12 feet long, [Brazel] felt, measuring the distance by the size of the room in which he sat. The rubber was smoky gray in color and scattered over an area about 200 yards in diameter. When the debris was gathered up, the tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about three feet long and 7 or 8 inches thick, while the rubber made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long and about 8 inches thick. In all, he estimated, the entire lot would have weighed maybe five pounds. There was no sign of any metal in the area which might have been used for an engine, and no sign of any propellers of any kind, although at least one paper fin had been glued onto some of the tinfoil. There were no words to be found anywhere on the instrument, although there were letters on some of the parts. Considerable Scotch tape and some tape with flowers printed upon it had been used in the construction. No strings or wires were to be found but there were some eyelets in the paper to indicate that some sort of attachment may have been used.
https://www.mufon.com/roswell-ufo-retrieval---1947.html


On June 4th, the Alamogordo Army Air Force base released Mogul Flight #4, part of a high-altitude balloon array, each some 600 feet long, designed to monitor sound waves from Soviet nuclear tests. It was constructed of sheets of tin foil, balsa wood, Scotch tape, and rubber. Days later, it crash-landed in the desert some 30 miles southeast of Corona, New Mexico, and 75 miles northwest of Roswell.

On or about June 14, 1947, “Mack” Brazel, a ranch foreman, found some debris in the desert about seven or eight miles from his sheep ranch—precisely in the area of the balloon crash—scattered over a football field-sized area; he later described it as consisting of sheets of tinfoil, rubber strips, balsa struts partially covered with tape, and “tough paper.” He ignored the material.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-paranormal/201205/roswell-revisited
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Sure is a lot of hullabaloo over a damn weather balloon. Who could have predicted the weather balloon could cause so much Ruckus?

I'm inclined to believe the story but I hold off until I study it more
 
OscarLevant said:
Sure is a lot of hullabaloo over a damn weather balloon. Who could have predicted the weather balloon could cause so much Ruckus?

I'm inclined to believe the story but I hold off until I study it more
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I've studied it before. No aliens.
 
zyzygy said:
I've studied it before. No aliens.
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There is also no concrete tangible evidence that Christ ever existed.

Do you believe that Jesus Christ ever walked the earth or is he just a myth?

I ask because you're not believing in Aliens because there's no concrete evidence,
Though the event caused a huge wake of people talking about it etcetera. It's hard for me to accept that a weather balloon cause this wake of activity surrounding it.

Now the evidence for Christ is circumstantial and there's a lot of it but it's circumstantial nevertheless. So if you accept that Christ lived then it's a question of degrees of circumstantial evidence, eh?

Note that I'm not trying to get off into a religious argument, lets stick strictly to the above point I've raised, which is just basically if you accept the existence of Christ then how much circumstantial evidence would there have to be regarding aliens for you to accept the existence of aliens?
 
OscarLevant said:
There is also no concrete tangible evidence that Christ ever existed.

Do you believe that Jesus Christ ever walked the earth or is he just a myth?

I ask because you're not believing in Aliens because there's no concrete evidence,
Though the event caused a huge wake of people talking about it etcetera. It's hard for me to accept that a weather balloon cause this wake of activity surrounding it.

Now the evidence for Christ is circumstantial and there's a lot of it but it's circumstantial nevertheless. So if you accept that Christ lived then it's a question of degrees of circumstantial evidence, eh?

Note that I'm not trying to get off into a religious argument, lets stick strictly to the above point I've raised, which is just basically if you accept the existence of Christ then how much circumstantial evidence would there have to be regarding aliens for you to accept the existence of aliens?
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UFO believers started the wave of activity. It was a weather balloon.
 
zyzygy said:
Abductions at night,anal probing and scaring folks on lonely roads. Never a landing on the White House lawn.
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In the late 80's there was a rush of books and films which claimed alien insemination and folks floating thru walls. We had some good drugs back in the day:lamo
 
If we assume there is intelligent life out there....and it is capable of travelling to Earth...

Should we not close SETI down and adopt a plan of complete cosmic silence in the hope they never discover us ?
 
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