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Oswald's last phone call

Unless I see something else posted on here of interest....I will wrap-up my involvement on this thread with this final link....interesting stuff.

It gives one a lot of insight into the investigation and its ultimate failure and certainly indicates a cia cover up....although it claims for certain Oswald was the shooter....the only question being did he have help which will never really be proven one way or the other.

I do not agree with the conclusion that Oswald definitely killed Kennedy...but that is just based more on my personal feel for the case than anything else...other than the he claimed to be a patsy and was subsequently assassinated himself.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/interview-g-robert-blakey/
 
I have always believed he was set up to be the fall guy. I do think he had intelligence connections and there are several indicators to that and it was these connections that set him up for the fall guy role...as you point out his history of being a loner....the perfect fall guy and a perfect fit aka just a loony loner who killed JFK ....as the cover for whoever actually did it.

Anyhow....what would have been his motivation to kill Kennedy?

What is your understanding of Oswalds association with George De Mohrenschildt who allegedly comitted suicide the day before he was to be interrogated? Who had ties to George Bush? A very interesting character to say the least.

How can you set him up when everything about his character screams out unreliable? There is an aspect of Oswald's makeup that would make him not to be the perfect fall guy. Oswald's own brother would tell you that Lee was not really political. Lee was always striving to be something else other than what he was. He wanted attention and the way he went about it was by being contrary and 'different' than everyone else. He didn't embrace Marxism because he truly believed in communism. It was because calling himself a communist automatically made him stand out from everyone else in the room and he secretly longed to be the center of attention in that room.

He, much like his mother, believed they were not being properly recognized for their obvious superior talents and believed deep inside that if wasn't for their low station in life, that he and his mother believed to be through no fault of their own, and the discriminatory society in which they lived. That they would achieve the recognition they deserved. Oswald actually craved fame. Even it were to be for notorious reasons. You see this pattern throughout his life. Openly learning to speak Russian and reading Russian periodicals while in the Marine Corp in full view of fellow marines. They even jokingly referred to him as Osvaldovich. Then he went awol from the Marine corp by defecting to Russia. And for awhile he rollicked in the attention that garnered him. But that soon wore off and so then he becomes disillusioned with communist life and tells them he wanted to go back to the US. He starts writing a historical diary of his days in Russia as an American defector. Which he called "Historical Dairy or Journal", or something like that. Fully expecting that his story would be of great interest to everyone. When he arrived back in the US his brother recalled how crestfallen he appeared to be when it became painfully apparent that there was no throng of reporters at the airport waiting to talk to him. He had even prepared some remarks for the occasion.

So if he wanted to kill JFK. Whom I don't believe he really had any personal animosity toward. It was going to be out of psychological compensatory motivations. Not political. JFK coming to Dallas and passing directly in front of the building in which he worked was an opportunity he simply could not pass up. It was opportunity for him to achieve that immortal fame he had been long seeking. That moment where he gets to tell the world. You all thought that I didn't matter and wouldn't ever matter. But now look. You all know who I am now, don't you? And this golden opportunity was being dropped right into his lap. Like a sign from God himself. A divinely sent acknowledgement that he was destined to be the great man he always believed he could be. So it didn't matter to him who it was that was in that motorcade car. This was the moment he had always been waiting for and he was going to seize it and he was going to own it and be proud of it no matter who was the target. He was no fall guy.
 
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What is your understanding of Oswalds association with George De Mohrenschildt who allegedly comitted suicide the day before he was to be interrogated? Who had ties to George Bush? A very interesting character to say the least.

George De Mohrenschildt is probably the most colorful and interesting character in this story. He had quite an eventful, exciting, and tragic life. With persecution of his family and children's unfortunate illnesses, being accused of being a Nazi sympathizer and being under FBI surveillance throughout the 40's and all. He was a rabid womanizer and a well educated eccentric who actually managed to get himself kicked out of two countries. He was also a close friend of the Bouvier family and had bounced Jackie Kennedy on his knee when she was a little girl and who called him Uncle George. Talk about your small world huh?

But I think his 'friendship' with Oswald was for him a source of intellectual amusement more than anything else. I think he was fascinated by Oswald's own twisted little eccentricities and thinking. I think he enjoyed probing and prodding Oswald just to get him going and try to see what it is that makes this weird little fellow tick. Oswald enjoyed his attention because for Oswald De Mohrenschildt was one of the few people in his entire life that seemed to take an actual interest in him. But even De Mohrenschildt would mock Oswald's disingenuous political stance. He would say to Oswald, or about Oswald, that Oswald reading all the books he did about Marx and Marxism was a sham and a waste of time. Because it was obvious to him that Oswald didn't have the capacity to be able to truly understand what he was reading. He would say to Oswald you can't really be a Marxist because you don't even know what a Marxist actually is. You think you do but I have to tell you that you really don't. The last time De Mohrenschildt had seen Oswald was in April of 63.

I think De Mohrenschildt killed himself as a result of severe depression coupled with acute paranoia. He spent the entirety of his life after the assassination trying evade the notoriety of his friendship with an assassin. Which was made all the worst by his own not so innocent past. I think after all those years of always being afraid of what people were thinking of him or would think of him if they knew about his past association with Oswald, the failed marriages, relationships and businesses, the tragic loss of children. It all took it's toll on him. It went from wondering what others were thinking or if they knew of his past to constantly thinking that he was being followed or watched and he just slowly began to lose his mind. He even wrote a letter to George Bush Sr. when he was the head of CIA to tell his CIA agents to stop following him around. There's that small world again.
 
I do not think that being reliable would be required of someone that the powers that be want to set up as a fall guy....what would be needed for a fall guy in the Kennedy Assassination? Someone who had a controversial past history, someone that could be manipulated, someone that would not generate any sympathy from the public, someone that is somewhat of a misfit, someone who had some proven ability to fire a rifle, someone angry with no credibility with some kind of association with the real perps.

Oswald was asscociated with the Marcello crime family in New Orleans and due to his defection to Russia had attracted the attention of American Intelligence even if there were no previous contacts. And...............the fact that the cia was not truthful with the investigators of the assassination....what were they hiding or covering up? Not even to mention the deathbed confession of E. Howard Hunt which proves nothing but does add fuel to the fire.

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Confession_of_Howard_Hunt.html


OSWALD'S EARLY LIFE:NEW ORLEANS AND ORGANIZED CRIME


David Ferrie
 
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I do not think that being reliable would be required of someone that the powers that be want to set up as a fall guy....what would be needed for a fall guy in the Kennedy Assassination? Someone who had a controversial past history, someone that could be manipulated, someone that would not generate any sympathy from the public, someone that is somewhat of a misfit, someone who had some proven ability to fire a rifle, someone angry with no credibility with some kind of association with the real perps.

Oswald was asscociated with the Marcello crime family in New Orleans and due to his defection to Russia had attracted the attention of American Intelligence even if there were no previous contacts. And...............the fact that the cia was not truthful with the investigators of the assassination....what were they hiding or covering up? Not even to mention the deathbed confession of E. Howard Hunt which proves nothing but does add fuel to the fire.

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Confession_of_Howard_Hunt.html


OSWALD'S EARLY LIFE:NEW ORLEANS AND ORGANIZED CRIME


David Ferrie

Being reliable for setup means that he would have to be open, predictable, stable, and willing to work with others and Oswald had none of those traits. There isn't a intelligence service in the world have made or try to turn a person like him into an agent. The Russians at first suspected Oswald might be CIA as they couldn't imagine why he took such desperate measures to stay in Russia. So reluctantly agreed to let him stay. But they kept him under constant surveillance everywhere he went every hour of the day. They even bugged the apartment they gave him in Minsk. To see if he was an agent and if he was could he be turned. They came to the conclusion that there was no way this deranged idiot could be a CIA agent. Unless the CIA had inexplicably decided to suddenly dispense with all their standards of operation. The fact that he was a defector would of course place him FBI's and CIA's watch list upon his return to America. Which would be another reason why it would be wise to avoid involving him in any plot.

There are no credible indications that Oswald had any connections with any crime family. When Oswald was arrested in New Orleans for disturbing the peace while handing out his Hands off Cuba pamphlets, he didn't even have the 5 or 10 dollars, I believe it was, to pay the fine so that he could get out of jail. He had get an uncle or aunt from his diseased father's side of the family that lived in New Orleans to come down there to pay it for him. Does that sound like a guy with mob connections? E Howard Hunt was no longer in possession of his mental faculties when he was on his deathbed. His sons manipulated him into making that 'confession' because the JFK conspiracy business is a very lucrative one.

Further more in order to bring Hunt, Sturgis or anyone in the CIA into the assassination you would have to fully subscribe to the 2nd shooter Grassy Knoll theory. Which at one time I will admit I believed as well. Until my own experience with firearms indicated to me that this simply wasn't possible given forensic ballistic evidence and the nature of the wounds and the lack of any wounds to Jackie. The ballistic evidence and metallurgic analysis clearly shows that all the bullet fragments recovered in the limousine and from JFk and the bullet recovered at Parkland were fired from Oswald's rifle to the exclusion of all other weapons in the world and were consistent in every way with the 6.5mm Mannlicher Carcano style ammunition in Oswald's possession. If you could find just one single fragment anywhere in that limousine, no matter how small, that doesn't match up with that ballistic forensic evidence. then you would have your definitive proof of a second shooter. But no such fragment or evidence has ever turned up from the limo or from anywhere in Dealey. Plaza in over 50 years.
 
I do not think Oswald was a agent....just a patsy.

Oswald did not have to do much of anything....all that was needed was for him to be seen at that location....he may not have even known what was about to happen. I seriously doubt he did.

His erratic movements after the assasination suggests he had no plan...no real plan of escape. He went home retrieved a pistol and began to wander aimlessly around on the streets with no clear or logical destination...the symptoms of someone very confused scared...hence his retrieval of the pistol.

By this time he no doubt knew Kennedy had been assassinated ...knowing that even before he left the school book depository and he was beginning to realize he had been set up. He didn't know what to do...he was scared desperate and very angry realizing what had been done to him.

The only scenario that would have made any sense for him to be the killer would be if he just did it for fame and recognition....but his denial of being the shooter and the claim that he was just a patsy destroys that narrative.

Organized Crime Expert Sees Mob Connections
By ABC NEWS

G. Robert Blakey, the former chief counsel of the House Assassinations Committee and an expert on organized crime, advocates the theory that there was a conspiracy behind the assassinations of President John F. Kennedy and his assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald.


On July 17, 1979, upon the release of the final report of U.S. House Select Committee on
Assassinations about the murder of President John Kennedy, its chief counsel, G. Robert
Blakey—one of the world’s experts on organized crime in America and the author of the 1970
RICO Act—declared: “The mob did it. It’s a historical fact.”

G. Robert Blakey on Oswalds connection to the Marcello crime family of New Orleans.

Blakey: 'I can show you that Lee Harvey Oswald knew, from his boyhood forward, David Ferrie, and David Ferrie was an investigator for Carlos Marcello on the day of the assassination, with him in a court room in New Orleans. I can show you that Lee Harvey Oswald, when he grew up in New Orleans, lived with the Dutz Murret family [one of Oswald's uncles]. Dutz Murret is a bookmaker for Carlos Marcello.

I can show you that there's a bar in New Orleans, and back in the '60s, bars used to have strippers and the strippers circuit is from Jack Ruby's strip joint in Dallas to Marcello-connected strip joints in the New Orleans area. So I can bring this connection.

Did Lee Harvey Oswald grow up in a criminal neighborhood? Yes. Did he have a mob-connected family? Did he have mob-connected friends? Was he known to them to be a crazy guy? He's out publicly distributing Fair Play for Cuba leaflets. If you wanted to enlist him in a conspiracy that would initially appear to be communist and not appear to be organized crime, he's the perfect candidate. Ex-Marine, marksman.'
 
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G. Robert Blakey on Oswalds connection to the Marcello crime family of New Orleans.

Blakey: 'I can show you that Lee Harvey Oswald knew, from his boyhood forward, David Ferrie, and David Ferrie was an investigator for Carlos Marcello on the day of the assassination, with him in a court room in New Orleans. I can show you that Lee Harvey Oswald, when he grew up in New Orleans, lived with the Dutz Murret family [one of Oswald's uncles]. Dutz Murret is a bookmaker for Carlos Marcello.

I can show you that there's a bar in New Orleans, and back in the '60s, bars used to have strippers and the strippers circuit is from Jack Ruby's strip joint in Dallas to Marcello-connected strip joints in the New Orleans area. So I can bring this connection.

Did Lee Harvey Oswald grow up in a criminal neighborhood? Yes. Did he have a mob-connected family? Did he have mob-connected friends? Was he known to them to be a crazy guy? He's out publicly distributing Fair Play for Cuba leaflets. If you wanted to enlist him in a conspiracy that would initially appear to be communist and not appear to be organized crime, he's the perfect candidate. Ex-Marine, marksman.'

As you probably know Blakey believed that Oswald was the actual killer....but there was second gunman he believes on the grassy knoll who took a shot but missed.

I think Marcello just used oswald as a patsy...too unreliable and disturbed for Marcello to pick him as the actual shooter...he would no doubt want a professional. But he needed oswald as a patsy to muddy the waters and deflect attention from the mob.

Just my opinion...I could be wrong...
 
I do not think Oswald was a agent....just a patsy.

Oswald did not have to do much of anything....all that was needed was for him to be seen at that location....he may not have even known what was about to happen. I seriously doubt he did.

His erratic movements after the assasination suggests he had no plan...no real plan of escape. He went home retrieved a pistol and began to wander aimlessly around on the streets with no clear or logical destination...the symptoms of someone very confused scared...hence his retrieval of the pistol.

By this time he no doubt knew Kennedy had been assassinated ...knowing that even before he left the school book depository and he was beginning to realize he had been set up. He didn't know what to do...he was scared desperate and very angry realizing what had been done to him.

Really if this had been anything other than a murder of a President a judge and jury would have wrapped thing whole thing up in day or two with a guilty verdict. The circumstantial, witness testimony, physical and forensic evidence all taken together would be overwhelming. There is proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that rifle found on the 6th floor and the gun taken from him at the movie theater belonged to Oswald. Both weapons were forensically proven to the murder weapons of President Kennedy and officer Tippit to the exclusion of all other weapons in the world. they can prove how he purchased and received those weapons via mail order, money order and post office documents in which had used the same alias as found on a fake draft card found inside his wallet at the time of his arrest. They have forensic evidence buttressed by witness testimony of how he transported his rifle and had prepared the 'sniper's nest' in the corner window of the 6th floor. There was one eye witness who was able to positively identify Oswald as being the man he saw in the 6th floor window. He was also positively identified by at least a half dozen eyewitnesses as being the man who shot officer Tippit.

Practically everything Oswald did in the immediate aftermath of the shooting was indicative of a conscientiousness of guilt. He was the only employee in the Depository at the time of the shooting to have left. When Oswald building he did go to wait at corner of Houston and Elm, I believe it was, where he would meet the bus that went to the Oak Cliff rooming house in which he lived each day week. Except for those weekends that he went to Ruth Paine's house. Where his wife and his daughter was staying. Because he would standing in plain view of the Depository and so anyone who might have seen or looking could see him. Instead he walked several blocks down the street from the Depository to take a bus whose route did not go directly by where he lived. We know where and about when he got on this bus from the testimony of the bus driver and from a lady on the bus who had previously rented a room to him. That woman in exact detail the clothing Mr Oswald was wearing when he got on the bus. Including the color of his shirt and the location of a tear or hole on the sleeve of that shirt. So from that they were able to estimate that Oswald left the Depository less than 5 minutes after the shooting.

Mind you to this point Oswald was pretty much following the same modus operandi that he used when he attempted to assassinate General Walker. Which was to blend in with the general confusion of the aftermath in order to leave the scene and then take public transportation to calmly travel away from it. But there was a big hitch this time. The large crowd attracted by the Presidential visit and Dealey Plaza quickly turning into a crime scene with cops converging from all over created a huge traffic jam with bus traveling not very far at all. So he abandoned the bus and got off it after getting a transfer ticket punched by the driver. He then walked to a bus terminal where he hailed a cab. He had the cab driver drive past the house where he lived and drop him a couple blocks up from it. Almost certainly because he wanted to check to see if there were police there first. So already he was showing the signs of the acute paranoia of someone who is on the run from the law and thinks his pursuers must be already probably on his tail. He goes to his grab his pistol and puts on a jacket, even though it's fairly very warm day, and quickly exits and starts walking toward main street area of town. The rest we know.
 
Well, first of all eye witness testimony is extremely unreliable...any lawyer or prosecutor will tell you that.

What I am saying is if oswald was the shooter...it would just be logical for him to have some rational escape plan...he was not stupid and supposedly had a high i.q. ---Just getting away from where he worked was not an escape plan...if he had one that of course would have been the first phase of it and he used demonstrated intelligence to get away from the building and the crowd...but just getting home was not an escape plan...he had to know they knew where he lived and would not take them long to get there...thus he could not stay there. Obviously he had no plan what to do after leaving the building...as in get out of town, or having a secure safe house or hideout somewhere, or even on leaving the city. Not the behavior of an intelligent man who had planned to shoot a President...in no way compares to his sniping at the General. All he had to do in that case was just slink off into the night and no one was the wiser...but he worked in the school book depository...he had to know that alone would make him a suspect....not even to mention the rifle...now why if he were the assasin would he use a rifle that could be traced back to him and even leave his prints on the rifle...that suggests a frame up....someone could have encouraged or even given him the money to buy the rifle and tricked him into bringing it to the depository without him even knowing what was up...or they could have bought the rifle from him and told him to bring it to work and they would pick it up there.....undoubtedly he quickly realized what the situation was when he found out that kennedy had been shot. Bottom line: if he were the assassin his behavior and actions make no sense unless he just wanted to do it for the glory and fame...but if that was the case he would not have claimed to be a patsy...he woud have bragged about it ...saying something like he did it for America or whatever.

another theory I just read the other days claims David Ferrie or whatever his name was something like that was a genius of sorts and knew how to hypnotize people and the claim was made that he hypnotized Oswald into shooting kennedy....I have always heard one could not be hypnotized to do anything one did not have a disposition to do...but maybe oswald had that disposition....if he were hypnotized that would make a lot of sense...his confused behavor after the event of just wandering the streets with a pistol in his pocket with no destination no plan. His shooting of the policeman was probably motivated by the deep anger he had at being setup as a patsy...the officer might have threatened to bring him downtown.

Of course I could be wrong about everything. hehheh Jusst trying to think about it all in a logical manner.


New evidence links the cases of Kim Philby and Lee Harvey Oswald in fascinating ways.
 
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