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A Simple Act Of Revenge

F

Flanders

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New Jersey
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Political Leaning
Very Conservative
This message is my opinion on who killed JFK. Everything I say is not a conspiracy theory. I am simply laying out how I arrived at my opinion and interpretation about an event that is rapidly fading into history.

Let me begin with a departed friend of mine, Eugene, the most politically astute person I ever knew.

Gene and I sailed together on two ships. The first one was in late 1961 or early 1962. That ship, a break/bulk freighter, was on a scheduled run that seamen called the “jungle run” because it went to some gawd-awful ports in the Orient. Saigon was one of the better ports of call.

After the ship docked in Saigon, Gene and I went ashore for a few hours. Everything was normal. The next morning we decided to go uptown again. As soon as we got there it looked like we were walking around a U.S. Army post. American Soldiers were everywhere. We soon found out that a troop ship had arrive the night before. If I remember correctly, we were told that 3,000 troops arrived the night before. Naturally, Gene and I discussed the implications after we settled down with cold beers in the Majestic Hotel:

1960.jpg​

Gene accurately detailed the coming Vietnam War. I distinctly remember him analyzing Dien Bien Phu:

​


We were not engaging in crystal ball gazing or Monday morning quarter backing. Gene blamed President Eisenhower for not helping the French hang on to Vietnam as he detailed what was coming.

Now lets move to November 1, 1963. As fate would have it Gene and I found ourselves on a ship docking in Saigon. Only this time all hell broke loose:

Following the overthrow of his government by South Vietnamese military forces the day before, President Ngo Dinh Diem and his brother are captured and killed by a group of soldiers. The death of Diem caused celebration among many people in South Vietnam, but also lead to political chaos in the nation. The United States subsequently became more heavily involved in Vietnam as it tried to stabilize the South Vietnamese government and beat back the communist rebels that were becoming an increasingly powerful threat. While the United States publicly disclaimed any knowledge of or participation in the planning of the coup that overthrew Diem, it was later revealed that American officials met with the generals who organized the plot and gave them encouragement to go through with their plans. Quite simply, Diem was perceived as an impediment to the accomplishment of U.S. goals in Southeast Asia. His increasingly dictatorial rule only succeeded in alienating most of the South Vietnamese people, and his brutal repression of protests led by Buddhist monks during the summer of 1963 convinced many American officials that the time had come for Diem to go. Three weeks later, an assassin shot President Kennedy. By then, the United States was more heavily involved in the South Vietnamese quagmire than ever. Its participation in the overthrow of the Diem regime signaled a growing impatience with South Vietnamese management of the war. From this point on, the United States moved step by step to become more directly and heavily involved in the fight against the communist rebels.​

This Day in HIstory: Nov 02 1963
Ngo Dinh Diem assassinated in South Vietnam

Ngo Dinh Diem assassinated in South Vietnam - Nov 02, 1963 - HISTORY.com​

Being somewhat foolish, Gene and I went uptown to see what was going on. Before long we once again settled down in the Majestic Hotel. Gene covered much of what we talked on our previous trip to Saigon adding “Now it begins.”

The long voyage home

Sailing from Saigon to the West Coast usually took about 18 days depending upon the weather. On November 23, 1963 the ship was a few hours out of San Pedro, California. Gene and I were working on deck preparing for port when someone came out and told us JFK had been assassinated.

After finishing work we went to the sailor’s mess room and listened to the radio that was blanketed with the event in Dallas. Lee Harvey Oswald was still unknown in those early reports. It did not matter. The first thought that came to our minds was that a Catholic South Vietnamese hit squad had assassinated JFK as revenge for Ngo Dinh Diem’s assassination.
 
LBJ had JFK killed.Oswald had nothing to do with it.
 
Ngo Dinh Diem was a Catholic killed by Buddhist officers who had no reason to kill JFK for ordering Diem’s murder.

President Kennedy (not wanting to be a one term President) ordered Diem to let up on the persecutions . . . but he refused. World opinion forced Kennedy to choose between his church and his political career and his decision cost him his life.

Finally the order went forth for Diem's removal and Buddhist Officers dragged him from the church and riddled him with bullets. This occurred on Nov. 2, 1963.​

Assassination of President Kennedy — Solved at Last!!

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/assassination_kennedy.htm
​

Subsequent events never changed our minds. The coverup tells the story after you eliminate every theory. Of all the theories —— blaming Lee Harvey Oswald is the most improbable:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/10/22/2D48FF2D00000578-3267845-image-m-104_1444511072132.jpg
Both McCone and the commission concluded that Lee Harvey Oswald (center) was a 'lone gunman' who killed Kennedy
​

Let me repeat. I am stating my opinion and interpretation. I offer no theory for discussion.

The U.S. government needed the South Vietnamese, a Buddhist country governed by Catholics, as willing allies in the coming war against Communist expansion in SE Asia. The American people never would have fought for the South if the Vietnamese got caught killing an American president.

You can find a piss pot full of interpretations for the JFK assassination. Everything from Oswald, to the CIA, to the Catholic Church, to the mafia. Every theory, and some I probably never heard about, is down by the head with true believers. Examine them one by one and you will not find this one: Liberals will never admit that a simple act of revenge killed their beloved JFK for something he did. Everybody else spent all of their energies looking for a grand conspiracy instead of considering a simple act of revenge carried out by a few bitter South Vietnamese Catholics.

One observation about the Vietnam War itself. It was as necessary as the Korean War. Had the U.S.A. and its allies defeated Communism militarily during the Cold War, the war against Islam would be a pushover today instead of America facing two enemies sworn to destroy this country. Specifically, Korea and Vietnam would be this country’s allies on China’s border instead of two full-fledged enemy Communist countries.


Finally, the Dragon Lady was not in Vietnam when her husband and brother-in-law were murdered. Had she been in Saigon on that fateful day she surely would have been killed. Sly comments she made years after 1963 convinced me that she at least knew why JFK was assassinated. These articles will remind interested readers of who she was.

During her 1963 U.S. speaking tour, she accused the United States of being soft on communism and presented herself as the victim. She complained that the Kennedy White House, which did not acknowledge her visit, could have shown her “more courtesy.” She made several high-profile appearances, including an interview on NBC’s “Meet the Press.” She said America wasn’t as anti-communist as Vietnam and had given in to liberalism, which in her view meant they were, “not red yet, but they are pink.”

The Washington Post described her during her visit as “petite, quick-witted” and remarked on her “long, sharpened red fingernails detracting somewhat from her posture of defenselessness.”​

‘
The Dragon Lady’: How Madame Nhu helped escalate the Vietnam War
By Colby Itkowitz
September 26

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...alate-the-vietnam-war/?utm_term=.23233a810c59​

XXXXX​

Madame Nhu listened helplessly to the details of the crisis thousands of miles away. She wrote, “If only I had been there,” again and again in her memoir. She told herself that she would have prevented the regime from falling, as she had in 1955, 1960 and again in 1962. She believed this time her absence had fatally weakened the Ngo regime.​

Assassination, Coup and Madame Nhu
By Monique Brinson Demery
7/10/2017 • Vietnam Magazine

Assassination, Coup and Madame Nhu | HistoryNet​
 
Last edited:
Let me repeat. I am stating my opinion and interpretation. I offer no theory for discussion.

I'm without an answer........
 
Flanders said:
Gene blamed President Eisenhower for not helping the French hang on to Vietnam
Click to expand...

Ike was right, the French were wrong, as their military failure proved. As our military failure proved.

Ike could have done even better by walking away.

Btw, we don't need more conspiracy fantasies, they're a dime a dozen.
 
Flanders said:
This message is my opinion on who killed JFK. Everything I say is not a conspiracy theory. I am simply laying out how I arrived at my opinion and interpretation about an event that is rapidly fading into history.

Let me begin with a departed friend of mine, Eugene, the most politically astute person I ever knew.

Gene and I sailed together on two ships. The first one was in late 1961 or early 1962. That ship, a break/bulk freighter, was on a scheduled run that seamen called the “jungle run” because it went to some gawd-awful ports in the Orient. Saigon was one of the better ports of call.

After the ship docked in Saigon, Gene and I went ashore for a few hours. Everything was normal. The next morning we decided to go uptown again. As soon as we got there it looked like we were walking around a U.S. Army post. American Soldiers were everywhere. We soon found out that a troop ship had arrive the night before. If I remember correctly, we were told that 3,000 troops arrived the night before. Naturally, Gene and I discussed the implications after we settled down with cold beers in the Majestic Hotel:


Gene accurately detailed the coming Vietnam War. I distinctly remember him analyzing Dien Bien Phu:

​


We were not engaging in crystal ball gazing or Monday morning quarter backing. Gene blamed President Eisenhower for not helping the French hang on to Vietnam as he detailed what was coming.

Now lets move to November 1, 1963. As fate would have it Gene and I found ourselves on a ship docking in Saigon. Only this time all hell broke loose:

Following the overthrow of his government by South Vietnamese military forces the day before, President Ngo Dinh Diem and his brother are captured and killed by a group of soldiers. The death of Diem caused celebration among many people in South Vietnam, but also lead to political chaos in the nation. The United States subsequently became more heavily involved in Vietnam as it tried to stabilize the South Vietnamese government and beat back the communist rebels that were becoming an increasingly powerful threat. While the United States publicly disclaimed any knowledge of or participation in the planning of the coup that overthrew Diem, it was later revealed that American officials met with the generals who organized the plot and gave them encouragement to go through with their plans. Quite simply, Diem was perceived as an impediment to the accomplishment of U.S. goals in Southeast Asia. His increasingly dictatorial rule only succeeded in alienating most of the South Vietnamese people, and his brutal repression of protests led by Buddhist monks during the summer of 1963 convinced many American officials that the time had come for Diem to go. Three weeks later, an assassin shot President Kennedy. By then, the United States was more heavily involved in the South Vietnamese quagmire than ever. Its participation in the overthrow of the Diem regime signaled a growing impatience with South Vietnamese management of the war. From this point on, the United States moved step by step to become more directly and heavily involved in the fight against the communist rebels.​

This Day in HIstory: Nov 02 1963
Ngo Dinh Diem assassinated in South Vietnam

Ngo Dinh Diem assassinated in South Vietnam - Nov 02, 1963 - HISTORY.com​

Being somewhat foolish, Gene and I went uptown to see what was going on. Before long we once again settled down in the Majestic Hotel. Gene covered much of what we talked on our previous trip to Saigon adding “Now it begins.”

The long voyage home

Sailing from Saigon to the West Coast usually took about 18 days depending upon the weather. On November 23, 1963 the ship was a few hours out of San Pedro, California. Gene and I were working on deck preparing for port when someone came out and told us JFK had been assassinated.

After finishing work we went to the sailor’s mess room and listened to the radio that was blanketed with the event in Dallas. Lee Harvey Oswald was still unknown in those early reports. It did not matter. The first thought that came to our minds was that a Catholic South Vietnamese hit squad had assassinated JFK as revenge for Ngo Dinh Diem’s assassination.
Click to expand...


No.... Just no.
 
This will be my final message.

late said:
Ike was right, the French were wrong, as their military failure proved.
Click to expand...

To late: At least offer some proof to support your opinion, asshole.

Try to understand what happened in Dien Bein Phu. There would have been no Vietnam War had the French stopped Ho Chi Min.

late said:
As our military failure proved.
Click to expand...

To late: The American military never lost a battle in Vietnam; so American Communists had good reason to defeat to their own country. It was people like Walter Cronkite and John Kerry who brought defeat to this country by handing Communists a political victory to the North Vietnamese. Not only did they give Communists a victory they handed a sovereign nation to Communism.

Get some facts here:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/law-and-order/317129-paris-1971-nyc-2018-part-2-a.html

Fledermaus said:
No.... Just no.
Click to expand...

To Fledermaus: Yes.... Just yes.
 
Flanders said:


<<<<snipped to meet character count restrictions>>>>

. . .After finishing work we went to the sailor’s mess room and listened to the radio that was blanketed with the event in Dallas. Lee Harvey Oswald was still unknown in those early reports. It did not matter. The first thought that came to our minds was that a Catholic South Vietnamese hit squad had assassinated JFK as revenge for Ngo Dinh Diem’s assassination.
Click to expand...

Interesting theory as to motive. But I watched a serious documentary on that in the last year or two--this would have been on one of the serious channels such as History or Discovery or National Geographic but I didn't take note of which. Scientific researchers re-enacted the event of the assassination to determine as closely as possible exactly what did happen. The mystery of the bullet that changed directions was resolved by the fact that Connelly was sitting in a jump seat in the limo convertible with the top down and that put him in position so that he was directly in front of the President.

Oswald, from his fourth floor advantage point, fired and hit the President in the initial shot that also wounded Governor Connelly. The Secret Service driver immediately gunned the engine in the limo as did the secret service in the car following, also a limo convertible with the top down. A secret service agent who had been standing in the second car was thrown off balance and his weapon, a rifle, discharged unintentionally. And it was that bullet that was the second and fatal shot.

The way they described it made that version of the story entirely plausible.

The horror of this is self evident. And, if true, it is obvious the government has covered it up ever since.

I believe Oswald did fire the initial shot. Of course we still don't have a motive for Oswald, so your theory is as good as any. He was likely the kind of guy who could have worked for anybody.
 
Flanders said:
1) To late: At least offer some proof to support your opinion

2) Try to understand what happened in Dien Bein Phu. There would have been no Vietnam War had the French stopped Ho Chi Min.
Click to expand...

1) You already have your proof, we lost, France lost.

2) And if wishes were horses, beggars could ride.

Because I am a Boomer, this has been a bone of contention since the 60s. This is my read of the history. The judgement was that we could do another Korea. The problem was that we were never willing to actually do another Korea. We didn't want to fight China again, and we were worried that Russia would get seriously involved. They get kinda wacky when you get near their border.

In Korea, we were in all the way, for as long as it takes, and we are still there.

That wasn't how most of the top guys in government felt. Instead of 'all in', we did a ratcheted response. And in that place, at that time, that was a recipe for failure.

The first American mistake was made by Truman, when he let State persuade him, against his better judgement, to ferry French troops to Vietnam. Without our ships, Vietnam would have stopped being a colony. And a few bucks worth of aid would have been enough to generate good relations.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Interesting theory as to motive. But I watched a serious documentary on that in the last year or two--this would have been on one of the serious channels such as History or Discovery or National Geographic but I didn't take note of which. Scientific researchers re-enacted the event of the assassination to determine as closely as possible exactly what did happen. The mystery of the bullet that changed directions was resolved by the fact that Connelly was sitting in a jump seat in the limo convertible with the top down and that put him in position so that he was directly in front of the President.

Oswald, from his fourth floor advantage point, fired and hit the President in the initial shot that also wounded Governor Connelly. The Secret Service driver immediately gunned the engine in the limo as did the secret service in the car following, also a limo convertible with the top down. A secret service agent who had been standing in the second car was thrown off balance and his weapon, a rifle, discharged unintentionally. And it was that bullet that was the second and fatal shot.

The way they described it made that version of the story entirely plausible.

The horror of this is self evident. And, if true, it is obvious the government has covered it up ever since.

I believe Oswald did fire the initial shot. Of course we still don't have a motive for Oswald, so your theory is as good as any. He was likely the kind of guy who could have worked for anybody.
Click to expand...

A very reasonable and depressing analysis.
 
late said:
1) You already have your proof, we lost, France lost.

2) And if wishes were horses, beggars could ride.

Because I am a Boomer, this has been a bone of contention since the 60s. This is my read of the history. The judgement was that we could do another Korea. The problem was that we were never willing to actually do another Korea. We didn't want to fight China again, and we were worried that Russia would get seriously involved. They get kinda wacky when you get near their border.

In Korea, we were in all the way, for as long as it takes, and we are still there.

That wasn't how most of the top guys in government felt. Instead of 'all in', we did a ratcheted response. And in that place, at that time, that was a recipe for failure.

The first American mistake was made by Truman, when he let State persuade him, against his better judgement, to ferry French troops to Vietnam. Without our ships, Vietnam would have stopped being a colony. And a few bucks worth of aid would have been enough to generate good relations.
Click to expand...

By the time Ike wrote his Farewell Address, the military industrial complex was already in complete control of the federal government. Stage false flags to keep the war going, and the profits are handsome indeed, seemingly never-ending.
 
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