WTC Core Details[W:183]

gerrycan · Feb 20, 2018

Re: WTC Core Details

gamolon said:
Sorry, your drawing clearly shows an angle, not round bar. How about you get your buddy Tony in here and ask him what HE thinks the drawing shows. I bet you won't.

Are the long and short span trusses the same in NIST's ANSYS model for the N Tower ?

I don't mind conceding anything you like about trusses beyond that for now. Just answer me that one thing.

gerrycan · Feb 20, 2018

Re: WTC Core Details

Thing is. I don't actually think it makes any material difference whether that piece is round flat or chocolate.

What does make a difference is whether NIST's model is an accurate reflection of the building. And there is no denyng that the trusses are different on the long and short span sides. You would rather talk about someting that is of no consequence because to admit that opens a potential can of worms for their model. And you know it. And you do not have the honesty to answer a straight question about something that is staring you and everyone else that is following this thread straight in the face.

gamolon · Feb 20, 2018

Re: WTC Core Details

gerrycan said:
Thing is. I don't actually think it makes any material difference whether that piece is round flat or chocolate.

What does make a difference is whether NIST's model is an accurate reflection of the building. And there is no denyng that the trusses are different on the long and short span sides. You would rather talk about someting that is of no consequence because to admit that opens a potential can of worms for their model. And you know it. And you do not have the honesty to answer a straight question about something that is staring you and everyone else that is following this thread straight in the face.

Sorry, but it makes a HUGE difference.

End of story.

gerrycan · Feb 20, 2018

Re: WTC Core Details

We're done here Gamelon. It's circular now.

-----------> this post

-----------> Gamelon's head

zyzygy · Feb 22, 2018

Re: WTC Core Details

gamolon said:
Sorry, but it makes a HUGE difference.

End of story.

He knows that but truthers never admit to a mistake.

gerrycan · Feb 22, 2018

Re: WTC Core Details

zyzygy said:
He knows that but truthers never admit to a mistake.

zyxygy, the pic below shows a red circle added by Gamolon, where he was insisting the element was not round bar. And shows a green circle, added by me, where the piece of angle that he wrongly believed was his circled piece was. What he hadn't realised at that time, and maybe still hasn't, was that the truss figures in the booklet didn't show the damping, but only the truss itself. He got it wrong, and has apparently realised that now.

gerrycan · Feb 22, 2018

Re: WTC Core Details

Any questions ?

gerrycan · Feb 22, 2018

Re: WTC Core Details

Gamolon ?

gamolon · Feb 23, 2018

Re: WTC Core Details

gerrycan said:
zyxygy, the pic below shows a red circle added by Gamolon, where he was insisting the element was not round bar.

That's a lie gerrycan. I'm insisting that the element represented by the drawing from the 1964 publication IS not round bar. The draftsman had DRAWN AN ANGLE. What part of this is giving you such mental fits that you can't understand? The drawing from the 1964 publication shows the element I circled in red as being an angle, not round bar. What is DRAWN in the 1964 publication is NOT what was installed as all the pictures prove.

Explanation yet again. What I circled in red below is representing an angle.

What is circled in red in the drawing below is round bar.

gamolon · Feb 23, 2018

Re: WTC Core Details

gerrycan said:
zyxygy, the pic below shows a red circle added by Gamolon, where he was insisting the element was not round bar.

To further my point, see drawings below.

Focus on the connection in the red square in the drawing below.

This is what that drawing shows the connection to be. This connection shows an ANGLE attached to the FRONT of the bottom angle chord. That's why we can see it IN FRONT OF THE ANGLE as was drawn.

Now focus on the connection in the red square in the drawing below.

This is what that drawing shows the connection to be. It shows round bar on the INSIDE of the bottom angle chord. That's why it it is drawn as DISAPPEARING behind the bottom angle. That round bar is sandwiched BETWEEN two angles.

The drawings represent two different things. You don't understand that because you lack the structural knowledge to read drawings.

So answer two questions gerrycan. Are you saying that both drawings accurately represent what we see in the photos? That would mean that both drawing represent the same identical thing. Is that what you think?

gamolon · Feb 23, 2018

Re: WTC Core Details

gerrycan said:
Gamolon ?
View attachment 67229059

You screwed up again!!!!

Why does the component you circled in green in the two drawings below appear DIRECTLY below the red component...

But in the photo below, you circled a component the appears BEFORE the component in red, not DIRECTLY below it!!!! Did you miss the round bar attached to what you thought was part of the damping assembly you circled in green in the photo??? The component you circled in green is one angle of two that make up the bottom chord of the truss!!!

:lamo:lamo:lamo

gamolon · Feb 23, 2018

Re: WTC Core Details

gerrycan said:
Gamolon ?
View attachment 67229059

Look at he photo below. I added purple, blue, and yellow lines to certain components.

The colors I added above match with the colors in the drawings below.

gamolon · Feb 23, 2018

Re: WTC Core Details

gerrycan said:
Gamolon ?
View attachment 67229059

Correct orientation of components. I flipped gerrycan's photo at the bottom horizontally to match up easier.

gamolon · Feb 23, 2018

Re: WTC Core Details

gerrycan said:
zyxygy, the pic below shows a red circle added by Gamolon, where he was insisting the element was not round bar. And shows a green circle, added by me, where the piece of angle that he wrongly believed was his circled piece was. What he hadn't realised at that time, and maybe still hasn't, was that the truss figures in the booklet didn't show the damping, but only the truss itself. He got it wrong, and has apparently realised that now.
View attachment 67229051

Hey gerrycan!!!

Any particular reason you thought that both ends of the floor trusses had dampers? I mean you circled the location of one in green on the CORE END of the truss. According to what I've read, the dampers were on the external/perimeter end.
https://books.google.com/books?id=9...=onepage&q="wtc" viscoelastic dampers&f=false

Exterior wall end truss detail...

gamolon · Feb 23, 2018

Re: WTC Core Details

gerrycan said:
Any questions ?

Yup.

Why are you getting so many things wrong?

zyzygy · Feb 23, 2018

Re: WTC Core Details

gamolon said:
Yup.

Why are you getting so many things wrong?

It's because he's a truther.

gerrycan · Feb 23, 2018

Re: WTC Core Details

gamolon said:
Yup.

Why are you getting so many things wrong?

Lat's just clarify - what is the element you circled in red originally representing ? is it round bar ?

I knew you couldn't resist.

gamolon · Feb 23, 2018

Re: WTC Core Details

gerrycan said:
Lat's just clarify - what is the element you circled in red originally representing ? is it round bar ?

When the draftsperson created the 1964 drawing, he/she had drawn an angle.

gerrycan said:
I knew you couldn't resist.

Yup. I can't resist reply to folks who think they know what they're talking about, but are getting things horribly wrong. Now it's your turn. Address the recent posts about your damper location.

gamolon · Feb 23, 2018

Re: WTC Core Details

gerrycan said:
Lat's just clarify - what is the element you circled in red originally representing ? is it round bar ?

Also, see post #135. That should answer your question.

gerrycan · Feb 23, 2018

Re: WTC Core Details

gamolon said:
When the draftsperson created the 1964 drawing, he/she had drawn an angle.

Nope. That's simply not true. Look at the similar element to the left f it - are you supposing that is also angle ?

gamolon said:
Yup. I can't resist reply to folks who think they know what they're talking about, but are getting things horribly wrong. Now it's your turn. Address the recent posts about your damper location.

I'm sensing a bit hostility here Gamolon. Can't we just be pals ? :2razz:

gamolon · Feb 23, 2018

Re: WTC Core Details

gerrycan said:
Nope. That's simply not true. Look at the similar element to the left f it - are you supposing that is also angle ?

Gerrycan. On the bottom chord. Is the component I circled in red behind the angle of the bottom chord or outside it (towards us).

gerrycan said:
I'm sensing a bit hostility here Gamolon. Can't we just be pals ? :2razz:

Sure!:2razz:

gamolon · Feb 23, 2018

Re: WTC Core Details

gerrycan said:
Nope. That's simply not true. Look at the similar element to the left f it - are you supposing that is also angle ?:

Tell you what. Let's take this in baby steps. Look at the two red arrows I added in the drawing below. They are pointing to a thin line that runs parallel to the component. That is a "centerline". With me so far?

gerrycan · Feb 23, 2018

Re: WTC Core Details

Let's just stick to the reality of the situation instead.

gamolon said:
Gerrycan. On the bottom chord. Is the component I circled in red behind the angle of the bottom chord or outside it (towards us).

Bottom chord is typically 2 angles but we can return to that.

Here's the long and short core ends from the booklet to refresh your memory, save you having to take my word for it.

View attachment 67229089

Here is the short span core end in reality.

View attachment 67229090

You can mark on both where you are saying the angle piece is if you like, but I would say that the booklet would appear to be exactly correct in it's depiction of a short span truss connection at the core end - do we agree ?

If not mark on the pictures where you think they differ.

Click to expand...

gamolon · Feb 23, 2018

Re: WTC Core Details

gerrycan said:
Nope. That's simply not true. Look at the similar element to the left f it - are you supposing that is also angle ?

Continuing on from the post above. When someone is drawing a cylindrical object that is viewed from the side (such as a pipe, round bar, soda can), the centerline bisects the object into two equal parts. See pipe drawing below.

Notice in your image, the centerline is closer to the bottom edge of the object and NOT in the center. It does not bisect it, indicating it is not round.

Below is a 3" angle cross section and front view. Notice how the centerline/axis of the front view is 1.94" from the top of the angle. The centerline is NOT bisecting it.

gerrycan · Feb 23, 2018

Re: WTC Core Details

I'll wait on your opinion on the booklet Vs reality. I am heading out for the weekend though so don't be too long.

Will you miss me if I don't have internet access ? :mrgreen: