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8JUN67. USS Liberty

Rexedgar said:
What does it say about a poster who continues to post on a topic that they are grossly ignorant of and have no desire to educate themselves?
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It says that poster is either willfully ignorant, or a propagandist.
 
JBG said:
I agree 100%. These posters always seek to stir the pot. It seems that the Jews are the only group in the world not allowed to have their own state. Funny how this seems to work.
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More ignorance from you. Jewish people DO have their own state, and have had since about 1948. It is very hard to take you seriously JBG.
 
Rexedgar said:
What does it say about a poster who continues to post on a topic that they are grossly ignorant of and have no desire to educate themselves?
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If you yourself were up to speed on the subject, you would realize that the American sailors were put into this predicament by our own gov't.

The fog of war will catch up to you real fast if you do not communicate well within the chain of command, and with your allies.
 
RetiredUSN said:
If you yourself were up to speed on the subject, you would realize that the American sailors were put into this predicament by our own gov't.

The fog of war will catch up to you real fast if you do not communicate well within the chain of command, and with your allies.
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Guilty conscience? Wasn’t you I had in mind; you post lazy and angry; out your sea bag!
 
RetiredUSN said:
The fog of war will catch up to you real fast if you do not communicate well within the chain of command, and with your allies.
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Fog of war? What fog of war? One ship on a clear day flying the American flag, and you call that the fog of war? Tell me more.
 
zyzygy said:
Metaphor.
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Misapplied metaphor. "Fog of war" hardly describes Israelis attacking a lone U.S. vessel flying the American flag on a clear day in international waters. You know better than that.
 
RetiredUSN said:
If you yourself were up to speed on the subject, you would realize that the American sailors were put into this predicament by our own gov't.

The fog of war will catch up to you real fast if you do not communicate well within the chain of command, and with your allies.
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All soldiers and sailors are put into such predicaments by their government. What is your point?
 
Thoreau72 said:
All soldiers and sailors are put into such predicaments by their government. What is your point?
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Then it explains what happened to the Liberty.

She never should have been there sitting naked and exposed like that in a war zone.
 
Sadling said:
Misapplied metaphor. "Fog of war" hardly describes Israelis attacking a lone U.S. vessel flying the American flag on a clear day in international waters. You know better than that.
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LOL "international waters" in a war zone.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Then it explains what happened to the Liberty.

She never should have been there sitting naked and exposed like that in a war zone.
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Yeah, who woulda thunk that an "ally" would shoot up the ship of a friendly nation? Thank you Admiral, for such brilliant insight!
 
RetiredUSN said:
LOL "international waters" in a war zone.
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LOL? The Liberty was clearly marked. It was flying the U.S. flag. The Israelis knew it was a U.S. vessel. It was an unprovoked attack. That you would continue to defend the attackers is . . . exactly what it looks like.
 
zyzygy said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_friendly_fire_incidents
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Sure it was friendly fire. The Liberty was marked; it was flying the American flag; it was a clear day; and the Israelis knew it was an American vessel. So the Israelis decided to friendly-fire the hell out of them.


If you're going to call it friendly fire, you have to forget all about the fact that the Israelis knew that they were attacking a U.S. vessel. You seem to be up to that challenge of forgetting all about that.
 
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Sadling said:
Sure it was friendly fire. The Liberty was marked; it was flying the American flag; it was a clear day; and the Israelis knew it was an American vessel. So the Israelis decided to friendly-fire the hell out of them.


If you're going to call it friendly fire, you have to forget all about the fact that the Israelis knew that they were attacking a U.S. vessel. You seem to be up to that challenge of forgetting all about that.
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Prove that they knew it.
 
Sadling said:
LOL? The Liberty was clearly marked. It was flying the U.S. flag. The Israelis knew it was a U.S. vessel. It was an unprovoked attack. That you would continue to defend the attackers is . . . exactly what it looks like.
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You still fail to explain why the United States Navy "chain of command" would place a defenseless ship in a war zone...…….even after Israel asked them to stay out of the area.

Captain McGonagle even asked his admiral in command if it was a good idea.



So much for your insight on the matter...….eh?
 
RetiredUSN said:
You still fail to explain why the United States Navy "chain of command" would place a defenseless ship in a war zone...…….even after Israel asked them to stay out of the area.
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At this point you should probably explain your support of foreigners who attacked a defenseless U.S. vessel flying the American flag. I'd be interested in hearing your excuse for that kind of loyalty. The attack was unprovoked.

As to the reason for the attack:

Historian Gabby Bron wrote in the Yediot Ahronot in Israel that he witnessed Israeli troops executing Egyptian prisoners on the morning of June 8, 1967, in the Sinai town of El Arish.

Bron reported that he saw about 150 Egyptian POWs being held at the El Arish airport where they were sitting on the ground, densely crowded together with their hands held on the back of their necks. Every few minutes, Bron writes, Israeli soldiers would escort an Egyptian POW from the group to a hearing conducted by two men in Israeli army uniforms. Then the man would be taken away, given a spade, and forced to dig his own grave.

The following is from an article ("ISRAEL REPORTEDLY KILLED POWS IN '67 WAR: HISTORIANS SAY DEATHS OF HUNDREDS OF EGYPTIANS WAS COVERED UP") in The Washington Post on August 17, 1995:

"Israeli soldiers killed hundreds of Egyptian prisoners of war during the 1967 Middle East war - deaths that commanders who are now prominent leaders have known about for years, historians said today. The controversy involves some top politicians, including Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and legislator Rafael Eitan [who also gave us U.S. Navy spy Jonathan Pollard, and then lied about it], a former army chief. The allegations dominated news shows, shocking many Israelis who have long prized the notion that their army maintained high ethical standards throughout decades of warfare with the Arab world and military rule over Palestinians. The Army spokesman, Brig. Gen. Amos Gilad, refused to comment. Rabin, who was chief of staff when some of the 1967 killings allegedly were committed, walked away today when a reporter shouted a related question. His office later issued a statement denouncing the killings and calling them isolated incidents.

Did you take note that after Rabin walked away and refusing to answer the question, his office did not deny the killings, and in fact denounced them. And then attempted some damage control by calling the murders isolated incidents.

Bottom line: The Liberty was a state-of-the-art communications vessel. On the morning of the attack on the Liberty, Israelis had murdered captured POWs in the Sinai town of El Arish. Afterward, Israelis attacked the Liberty deliberately and unprovoked on that very same day despite the fact that the Liberty was clearly marked and flying the U.S. flag. Does your loyalty prohibit you from doing the math!
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But let's start with you telling whether or not you believe the Israelis knew that the USS Liberty was an American vessel. So, what about it?
 
Sadling said:
At this point you should probably explain your support of foreigners who attacked a defenseless U.S. vessel flying the American flag. I'd be interested in hearing your excuse for that kind of loyalty. The attack was unprovoked.

As to the reason for the attack:

Historian Gabby Bron wrote in the Yediot Ahronot in Israel that he witnessed Israeli troops executing Egyptian prisoners on the morning of June 8, 1967, in the Sinai town of El Arish.

Bron reported that he saw about 150 Egyptian POWs being held at the El Arish airport where they were sitting on the ground, densely crowded together with their hands held on the back of their necks. Every few minutes, Bron writes, Israeli soldiers would escort an Egyptian POW from the group to a hearing conducted by two men in Israeli army uniforms. Then the man would be taken away, given a spade, and forced to dig his own grave.

The following is from an article ("ISRAEL REPORTEDLY KILLED POWS IN '67 WAR: HISTORIANS SAY DEATHS OF HUNDREDS OF EGYPTIANS WAS COVERED UP") in The Washington Post on August 17, 1995:

"Israeli soldiers killed hundreds of Egyptian prisoners of war during the 1967 Middle East war - deaths that commanders who are now prominent leaders have known about for years, historians said today. The controversy involves some top politicians, including Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and legislator Rafael Eitan [who also gave us U.S. Navy spy Jonathan Pollard, and then lied about it], a former army chief. The allegations dominated news shows, shocking many Israelis who have long prized the notion that their army maintained high ethical standards throughout decades of warfare with the Arab world and military rule over Palestinians. The Army spokesman, Brig. Gen. Amos Gilad, refused to comment. Rabin, who was chief of staff when some of the 1967 killings allegedly were committed, walked away today when a reporter shouted a related question. His office later issued a statement denouncing the killings and calling them isolated incidents.

Did you take note that after Rabin walked away and refusing to answer the question, his office did not deny the killings, and in fact denounced them. And then attempted some damage control by calling the murders isolated incidents.

Bottom line: The Liberty was a state-of-the-art communications vessel. On the morning of the attack on the Liberty, Israelis had murdered captured POWs in the Sinai town of El Arish. Afterward, Israelis attacked the Liberty deliberately and unprovoked on that very same day despite the fact that the Liberty was clearly marked and flying the U.S. flag. Does your loyalty prohibit you from doing the math!
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But let's start with you telling whether or not you believe the Israelis knew that the USS Liberty was an American vessel. So, what about it?
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Ahhhhhhhhhh……..the anti American attack from you, huh?

Let's start by you proving your accusations instead of me doing your homework.

It is a proven fact the that Liberty captain asked about being that close to the action.

It is a proven fact that Israel requested all American ships away from the area.

It is a proven fact that the American Captain questioned the admirals decision.

It's a proven fact that the Pentagon went lips tight after the attack.\

There are contradicting reports of what was actually said between the Israeli pilots and the IDF command center and what the command center did during a multi front war zone..



But you...…...who wasn't there ……...has all the answers!
 
RetiredUSN said:
You still fail to explain why the United States Navy "chain of command" would place a defenseless ship in a war zone...…….even after Israel asked them to stay out of the area.

Captain McGonagle even asked his admiral in command if it was a good idea.



So much for your insight on the matter...….eh?
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I knew Capt. McGonagle. You don't know what you don't know.
 
Sadling said:
So is this your way of saying that the Israelis knew that they were attacking an American vessel?
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So is this your way of totally eliminating American incompetence in the pentagon?

Come back to me when you make the mature decision to look at both sides of the Liberty investigation.

George Noory makes a good living off of people like you.
 
RetiredUSN said:
So is this your way of totally eliminating American incompetence in the pentagon?
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No. This is my way of finding out that your answer to the question of whether or not the Israelis knew that they were attacking a U.S. vessel is "no comment."
 
Sadling said:
No. This is my way of finding out that your answer to the question of whether or not the Israelis knew that they were attacking a U.S. vessel is "no comment."
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You already stated your opinion...…….quite clearly. (clear day, etc.)

You are trying to milk the debate for what it's worth.

There are no clear findings and you know it.
 
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