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Thread: 8JUN67. USS Liberty

  1. #241
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    Re: 8JUN67. USS Liberty

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    To say that it was deliberately done, is to assume intent. To assume that the Israeli government would deem it within its interest to attack their only ally in the middle 1967 war, is an extraordinary claim, requires extraordinary evidence. However, to say that it was a mishap caused by ineffeciancy and ineffective leadership isn't such an extraordinary claim, and justify's the US's stance in negotiating this issue. Afterall, if the US were to take such a hard line on everyone that attacked us, we would be at war with every country that have ram into our ships and killed US sailors. We had quite a few of those 2 years ago, and good sailors died from it.

    So, PeteEU, or anyone who endorses this claim, needs to prove why this is deliberate, as opposed to an accident.

    You(or, peteEU, since I was originally talking to him) also needs to explain why, after nearly 60 years, is the issue is not settled after both sides of come an agreement? Why, after 60 years of friendly relations between our 2 countries, should the US renew a grudge against the Jewish state, over this? Pete, what exactly does the US government have to gain by reopening long closed wounds?
    I agree 100%. These posters always seek to stir the pot. It seems that the Jews are the only group in the world not allowed to have their own state. Funny how this seems to work.

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    Re: 8JUN67. USS Liberty

    Quote Originally Posted by JBG View Post
    I agree 100%. These posters always seek to stir the pot. It seems that the Jews are the only group in the world not allowed to have their own state.
    Check out the title of the thread. It's about the Israel's deliberate attack on the USS Liberty. But somehow you've interpreted proof to that effect as a declaration that Jews are not allowed to have their own state. Hysterical much?

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    Re: 8JUN67. USS Liberty

    Quote Originally Posted by Sadling View Post
    Check out the title of the thread. It's about the Israel's deliberate attack on the USS Liberty. But somehow you've interpreted proof to that effect as a declaration that Jews are not allowed to have their own state. Hysterical much?
    Alleged deliberate attack.

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    Re: 8JUN67. USS Liberty

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyiP1tUOxig

    I recently watched this BBC documentary on this subject. Call me lazy but I didn't go through all 25 pages of this thread to see if it had already been linked. Apologies if it has
    There never has been a peace process, but rather an annexation process that used the “peace process” as a facade

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    Re: 8JUN67. USS Liberty

    Quote Originally Posted by zyzygy View Post
    Alleged deliberate attack.
    I'm afraid your argument is with these guys:

    Never before in the history of the United States Navy has a Navy Board of Inquiry ignored the testimony of American military eyewitnesses and taken, on faith, the word of their attackers.--Captain Richard F. Kiepfer, Medical Corps, US Navy (retired), USS Liberty Survivor.

    "The evidence was clear. Both Admiral Kidd and I believed with certainty that this attack...was a deliberate effort to sink an American ship and murder its entire crew.... It was our shared belief. . .that the attack. . .could not possibly have been an accident.... I am certain that the Israeli pilots [and] their superiors. . .were well aware that the ship was American."-- Captain Ward Boston, JAGC, US Navy (retired), senior legal counsel to the US Navy Court of Inquiry.

    "It appears to me that it was not a pure case of mistaken identity."
    -- Captain William L. McGonagle, Commanding Officer, USS Liberty, speaking at Arlington National Cemetery, June 8, 1997.

    Ralph Hoppe, Colonel, US Army, retired, reports that dozens of intelligence reports soon after the attack described the attack as deliberate including a "consensus report" which summarized the collective view of the US intelligence community. Soon orders came from Washington to collect and destroy all such reports. Nothing more in official channels described the attack as deliberate.--Aerotech News and Review, March 2, 2001, by John Borne, PhD, and conversations with James Ennes.

    U.S. Secratary of State Dean Rusk.

    CIA Director Richard Helms.

    CIA Deputy Director Admiral Rufus Taylor.

    Former NSA Director retired Army Lieutenant General William Odom.

    Former NSA/CIA Director Admiral Bobby Inman.

    Chief of Naval Operations and later Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Thomas Moorer.

    Deputy CIA director, as quoted by CIA director Admiral Rufus Taylor.

    Of four former NSA/CIA seniors with inside knowledge, none was aware of any agency official who dissented from the position that the attack was deliberate--David Walsh, writing in Naval Institute Proceedings.

    "Inconceivable that it was an accident; 3 strafing passes, 3 torpedo boats. Set forth facts. Punish Israelis responsible"--Clark Clifford, Secretary of Defense under Lyndon Johnson, in Minutes of NSC Special Committee Meeting, 9 June 1967.

    "The attack was clearly deliberate."--General Marshall Carter, former director, National Security Agency, in a telephone interview with James Ennes.

    The attack was deliberate"--Lucius Battle, former presidential advisor, as keynote speaker for 1982 USS Liberty reunion.

    "I can tell you for an absolute certainty (from intercepted communications) that they knew they were attacking an American ship."--Oliver Kirby, former deputy director for operations/production, National Security Agency. Kirby participated in NSA's investigation of the attack and reviewed translations of intercepted communications between pilots and their headquarters which he reports show conclusively that they knew their target was an American ship. Kirby is considered the "Godfather" of the USS Liberty and USS Pueblo intercept programs. (Telephone interviews with James Ennes and David Walsh for Friendless Fire, Proceedings, June 2003).

    On the strength of intercept transcripts of pilots' conversations during the attack, the question of the attack's deliberateness "just wasn't a disputed issue" within the agency.--Lieutenant General William E. Odom, former director, National Security Agency, interview with David Walsh on March 3, 2003, reported in Naval Institute Proceedings, June, 2003.
    __________________________________________________ ________________

    You should probably take it up with them.

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    Re: 8JUN67. USS Liberty

    Quote Originally Posted by Sadling View Post
    I'm afraid your argument is with these guys:

    Never before in the history of the United States Navy has a Navy Board of Inquiry ignored the testimony of American military eyewitnesses and taken, on faith, the word of their attackers.--Captain Richard F. Kiepfer, Medical Corps, US Navy (retired), USS Liberty Survivor.
    It seems like everyone "ignores" this craziness.

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    Re: 8JUN67. USS Liberty

    Quote Originally Posted by RetiredUSN View Post
    You don't agree and that is fine with me, but the American government placed that crew in peril, not the Israeli's. I still thinks it's accidental, but from what I have learned since...............after?

    Israel would have had every ****ing right to attack this ship, especially after finding out that it was communicating with the Arabs.
    Pleased to meet you, thanks for your Service.
    Yeah, LBJ or someone put that crew and ship in harm's way. The normal Navy Command channels don't seem to have been fully briefed, the special comms in place were compartmented and the traffic routed funny...the crew was unaware of the specifics of the mission...America assured Israel no vessels of ours would be in those waters.
    The initial attack was an 'honest' mistake, the Israeli planes were reporting back to their Command who were calling US and we denied the Liberty was ours, at least at first. It May be that because her mission was so black, that normal means of assurance/diplomacy/deconfliction between the Israelis and us were insufficient to meet this emergency.
    I 'think', don't have the evidence in front of me, that Israel asked us at least twice during the attack if she was ours, we denied her. I think this is why LBJ aborted the alpha strike to aid her, he knew the horrific mess he or someone very close to him set up.

    The pilots called, we denied her and the attack continued. But we could have stopped it by simply acknowledging her.

    If you look at the Israeli political and military leadership and decision-making at those moments, it is simply not possible to imagine they knowingly staged an unprovoked attack on her knowing she was ours.

    The crew simply had no clue what happened, they only know they were hit. The Navy couldn't figure out exactly what because LBJ or someone very close to him was running a very black op. So...accept Israel's apology and war is hell.

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    Re: 8JUN67. USS Liberty

    Quote Originally Posted by JBG View Post
    It seems like everyone "ignores" this craziness.
    Well, only after they've been shown to be wrong.

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    Re: 8JUN67. USS Liberty

    Quote Originally Posted by Stymie_X View Post
    If you look at the Israeli political and military leadership and decision-making at those moments, it is simply not possible to imagine they knowingly staged an unprovoked attack on her knowing she was ours.
    Then what's your answer to everything that points to the fact that the Israelis knew that they were attacking a U.S. vessel in international waters?

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    Re: 8JUN67. USS Liberty

    Exactly!

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