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EO 13223: Preparing for war?

Mr Person said:
I could say the bolded myself...

My point was that tech only gets you so far. I pointed to a situation where a massively out-matched country in technical terms beat a better-trained/teched enemy with bodies (USSR-Russia). Your responses was oh yeah, but more tech!





China isn't some wimpy pushover. They also are rather starting to catch up on the tech front.
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Nazis didnt really have better tech and they didn't have absolutely ridiculous air superiority.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Nazis didnt really have better tech and they didn't have absolutely ridiculous air superiority.
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They didn't have several hundred million adult bodies to throw at troops.



A war to the death would be the greatest crime in history. It may not get that far, but the questions are how far and was it worth it?
 
Mr Person said:
They didn't have several hundred million adult bodies to throw at troops.



A war to the death would be the greatest crime in history. It may not get that far, but the questions are how far and was it worth it?
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How do you throw troops with rifles at drones and stealth and laser guided bombs? Did you see the 1991 Gulf War at all?
 
Bodhisattva said:
How do you throw troops with rifles at drones and stealth and laser guided bombs? Did you see the 1991 Gulf War at all?
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Think about the numbers of various things involved. You're not killing an army with drones. You're harassing them at best.




I could also add that we were also way better technologically speaking in the first Korean War.
 
Absentglare said:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-pres...xecutive-order-amending-executive-order-13223

Pretty cryptic, but it sounds like President Trump is preparing to recall retired military personnel to active duty.

Is he gearing for war?

It is truly sad that i'm hoping he's just trying to use this as a way to silence criticism from retired generals, as active duty personnel are unable to speak so freely...
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No more. Not me. I'm too old. No matter how much I'd like to I can't drink all night and run the whores anymore. Oh yeah, or wake up early and exercise till I puke. Besides, my wife wouldn't let me. If I get called up Trump will have to deal with my wife. Good luck with that. War? She'd give him war.
 
Mr Person said:
Think about the numbers of various things involved. You're not killing an army with drones. You're harassing them at best.




I could also add that we were also way better technologically speaking in the first Korean War.
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That's just it, you're thinking we would be confining our actions to just the military. America fights dirty, before we dropped Nukes we practically leveled the Japanese mainland with regular air raids after we took out their air defenses and military infrastructure. Not only air superiority, our biggest strength is our naval superiority. We would starve them, it takes a lot of food and trade to feed that many people. And unless Russia decides to join in on China's side they will need their ports open. A nation can starve relatively quickly in today's global economy. Even a big Ag nation like the US or China. China going to war with us would cause a depression there, not even the wealthy would be immune. Billions will be lost to them. Their currency will inflate to the point you could use it for toilet paper and burn it for heat. Which they will have to.

While over here, our economy is designed for war. It thrives on war. It's driven by war. We won't be able to get cheap **** off ebay, American manufacturing will make a big come-back for the necessary **** we've getting from China. And we'll make up the difference in natural resource requirements from Canada, who always has our backs. They got everything China has that we need, and haven't tapped a bit of it.

They going through all that trouble over NK? Doubtful. The only way that happens is if they think we're not going to stop at NK, which they have no reason to think that. There is a reason Russia lost a cold war while our economy was humming away singing a merry tune. And that reason is why the world will always think twice before starting ****.
 
Absentglare said:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-pres...xecutive-order-amending-executive-order-13223

Pretty cryptic, but it sounds like President Trump is preparing to recall retired military personnel to active duty.

Is he gearing for war?

It is truly sad that i'm hoping he's just trying to use this as a way to silence criticism from retired generals, as active duty personnel are unable to speak so freely...
Click to expand...

Executive Order 13223 concern the ready reserve. It has nothing to do with retirees.

George W. Bush: Executive Order 13223?Ordering the Ready Reserve of the Armed Forces to Active Duty and Delegating Certain Authorities to the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of Transportation

The feverish fear mongering can end, now.
 
apdst said:
Executive Order 13223 concern the ready reserve. It has nothing to do with retirees.

George W. Bush: Executive Order 13223?Ordering the Ready Reserve of the Armed Forces to Active Duty and Delegating Certain Authorities to the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of Transportation

The feverish fear mongering can end, now.
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Wrong.

From the EO:
>Section 1. Amendment to Executive Order 13223. Section 1 of Executive Order 13223 is amended by adding at the end: "The authorities available for use during a national emergency under sections 688 and 690 of title 10, United States Code, are also invoked and made available, according to their terms, to the Secretary concerned, subject in the case of the Secretaries of the Army, Navy, and Air Force, to the direction of the Secretary of Defense."


Section 688 of title 10:
>(a)Authority.— Under regulations prescribed by the Secretary of Defense, a member described in subsection (b) may be ordered to active duty by the Secretary of the military department concerned at any time. (b)Covered Members.—Except as provided in subsection (d), subsection (a) applies to the following members of the armed forces: (1) A retired member of the Regular Army, Regular Navy, Regular Air Force, or RegularMarine Corps. (2) A member of the Retired Reserve who was retired under section 1293, 3911, 3914, 6323, 8911, or 8914 of this title. (3) A member of the Fleet Reserve or Fleet Marine Corps Reserve.
 
Absentglare said:
Wrong.

From the EO:
>Section 1. Amendment to Executive Order 13223. Section 1 of Executive Order 13223 is amended by adding at the end: "The authorities available for use during a national emergency under sections 688 and 690 of title 10, United States Code, are also invoked and made available, according to their terms, to the Secretary concerned, subject in the case of the Secretaries of the Army, Navy, and Air Force, to the direction of the Secretary of Defense."


Section 688 of title 10:
>(a)Authority.— Under regulations prescribed by the Secretary of Defense, a member described in subsection (b) may be ordered to active duty by the Secretary of the military department concerned at any time. (b)Covered Members.—Except as provided in subsection (d), subsection (a) applies to the following members of the armed forces: (1) A retired member of the Regular Army, Regular Navy, Regular Air Force, or RegularMarine Corps. (2) A member of the Retired Reserve who was retired under section 1293, 3911, 3914, 6323, 8911, or 8914 of this title. (3) A member of the Fleet Reserve or Fleet Marine Corps Reserve.
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Retired members who are still a part of ready reserve.
 
ThoughtEx. said:
That's just it, you're thinking we would be confining our actions to just the military. America fights dirty, before we dropped Nukes we practically leveled the Japanese mainland with regular air raids after we took out their air defenses and military infrastructure. Not only air superiority, our biggest strength is our naval superiority. We would starve them, it takes a lot of food and trade to feed that many people. And unless Russia decides to join in on China's side they will need their ports open. A nation can starve relatively quickly in today's global economy. Even a big Ag nation like the US or China. China going to war with us would cause a depression there, not even the wealthy would be immune. Billions will be lost to them. Their currency will inflate to the point you could use it for toilet paper and burn it for heat. Which they will have to.

While over here, our economy is designed for war. It thrives on war. It's driven by war. We won't be able to get cheap **** off ebay, American manufacturing will make a big come-back for the necessary **** we've getting from China. And we'll make up the difference in natural resource requirements from Canada, who always has our backs. They got everything China has that we need, and haven't tapped a bit of it.

They going through all that trouble over NK? Doubtful. The only way that happens is if they think we're not going to stop at NK, which they have no reason to think that. There is a reason Russia lost a cold war while our economy was humming away singing a merry tune. And that reason is why the world will always think twice before starting ****.
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This is why I lose zero sleep over NK. China might hate us, and to take a crack at leveling us...but they've become capitalist enough now that they need us, and they know. At least, the wealthy do. No, if anyone is going to war with NK, it'll be China. Because, eventually, NK is going to do something that'll be bad for business for China...and the business of China is business.
 
Absentglare said:
So you either didn't read the bold, or you didn't understand it.
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I did read the bold. I also noticed that you didn't embolden the "retired reserve" part. Couldn't have people noticing that; it would gilflirt your fearmongering.
 
Absentglare said:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-pres...xecutive-order-amending-executive-order-13223

Pretty cryptic, but it sounds like President Trump is preparing to recall retired military personnel to active duty.

Is he gearing for war?

It is truly sad that i'm hoping he's just trying to use this as a way to silence criticism from retired generals, as active duty personnel are unable to speak so freely...
Click to expand...

Before forcing old timers back into uniform, maybe he should put his sons and daughter into the military and have them first in line at the front, where ever that might be. Tired of the wealthy sending someone else's children to fight their wars. Next war, go back to the draft, maybe then people would not be in such a hurry to start another war.
 
apdst said:
I did read the bold. I also noticed that you didn't embolden the "retired reserve" part. Couldn't have people noticing that; it would gilflirt your fearmongering.
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That was a distinct group that was being included in addition to, rather than in substitution for.
 
ThoughtEx. said:
I don't see what the point would be to bring back retirees in an emergency. It's not like we didn't all sign up for the draft when we were 18. The old timers did their part, let em be. I'm 31, and I was raised to think of war as a game with a sea of battle simulating video games. Makes more sense to just draft people like me in an emergency.
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When you ramp up for battle you need a lot of mid grade NCO’s and officers. It could be part of the message to China: “We are not screwing around anymore”.

I’m sure the strategy notes will be leaked by someone. Hopefully, NoKo will understand that there lots of versions of the battle plans, and WaPo may not be the best source for matters like this.

Are we waiting for Kim to MIRV a half dozen 50 megaton nukes per missile and give him the power to destroy us? China just started bragging that they expect to dominate the world in thirty years. Do they have some agreement with NoKo to do Chinas dirty work for them? For example, NoKo nukes the USA and threaten to nuke what is left if we retaliate?

BTW, the EO was just updating the authority for future disasters.
 
ThoughtEx. said:
That's just it, you're thinking we would be confining our actions to just the military. America fights dirty, before we dropped Nukes we practically leveled the Japanese mainland with regular air raids after we took out their air defenses and military infrastructure. Not only air superiority, our biggest strength is our naval superiority. We would starve them, it takes a lot of food and trade to feed that many people. And unless Russia decides to join in on China's side they will need their ports open. A nation can starve relatively quickly in today's global economy. Even a big Ag nation like the US or China. China going to war with us would cause a depression there, not even the wealthy would be immune. Billions will be lost to them. Their currency will inflate to the point you could use it for toilet paper and burn it for heat. Which they will have to.

While over here, our economy is designed for war. It thrives on war. It's driven by war. We won't be able to get cheap **** off ebay, American manufacturing will make a big come-back for the necessary **** we've getting from China. And we'll make up the difference in natural resource requirements from Canada, who always has our backs. They got everything China has that we need, and haven't tapped a bit of it.

They going through all that trouble over NK? Doubtful. The only way that happens is if they think we're not going to stop at NK, which they have no reason to think that. There is a reason Russia lost a cold war while our economy was humming away singing a merry tune. And that reason is why the world will always think twice before starting ****.
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying about NK, but starving China would be a different story. If China backed them again, could we really bet the conflict would stay localized to the penninsula?

At some point, someone realizes the stakes are bigger.




I'm not saying we'd lose. I'm questioning just how much blood it's worth (and treasure).
 
I never thought that at 51-years-old, I would be considered one of the old-timers. All of the weapons systems that I knew 8", Lance, and Pershing II, are like me... Retired. Think they'll make me go back to OBC again to change MOS? What does a 13A even do now?
 
ThoughtEx. said:
They going through all that trouble over NK? Doubtful. The only way that happens is if they think we're not going to stop at NK, which they have no reason to think that. There is a reason Russia lost a cold war while our economy was humming away singing a merry tune. And that reason is why the world will always think twice before starting ****.
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About that, though....


A huge factor in that was the USSR's self-destructive economic policies plus the fact that the rest of the developed world (Europe) had their infrastructure/everything decimated. We didn't simply spend them into the ground. They ruined themselves simultaneously.

China, in contrast, has increasingly capitalized their economy. They may have crippled themselves in the past, but not so much anymore. They aren't the post-war Crippled USSR for us to start up with. And we can damage each other economically. Severely.




I suspect it would cost more dearly than ever to beat China in a hot war, assuming, though, that we're both willing to go to the end; insanely dearly.
 
Mr Person said:
I understand what you are saying about NK, but starving China would be a different story. If China backed them again, could we really bet the conflict would stay localized to the penninsula?

At some point, someone realizes the stakes are bigger.




I'm not saying we'd lose. I'm questioning just how much blood it's worth (and treasure).
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Everyone's risk tolerance is different, no correct answer for that, but I'd say the risk of us going hot with China over NK when NK is threatening us with Nukes is fairly low. Everyone likes the status quo to much to upset the applecart. Heck, Apple would be a good canary to judge where we really stand with China. They are in deep over there, so if the prices start fluctuating on iphones we should start to worry.
 
Absentglare said:
FYI, looks like they're using this to fill a pilot shortage:



https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ed-pilots-address-serious-shortage/785344001/

I hope we can all breathe a collective sigh of relief now. Happy Friday everyone! Glad to see that it looks like i was wrong about President Trump here.
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Some of them are pilots who were targeted, however retirees can benefit the military even if they are unfit for combat due to age, illness or whatever reason. When my father retired from the navy he was put on ready reserve, then not too long after inactive reserve. Inactive reserve can still be called into service, though they are usually reserved for when other reserves could not meet requirements.

The biggest advantage to calling back retirees is simply experience, even if they are not combat ready anymore, but let's say a draft was initiated, those retirees could be waived pt and weight standards and be used to train the draftees in the event of a large scale war. retirees could also be used for tech support stateside for repairs to existing military equipment, as many experienced people in a large sale war requiring such callbacks would be deployed, leaving the stateside roster of experienced soldiers and techs very lacking.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Moved to Conspiracy Theory.
 
shrubnose said:
If the USA gets into a hot war in Korea ...
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Y'all speak so easily about the USA slaughtering millions more.

I guess it's not at all surprising for a nation of war mongers that has been in a state of war for 93 percent of its years as a "nation".
 
Send old people to war, while trump still continues to taunt NK, such a terrible idea.
 
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