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Dispelling Myths: The "Impossible Maneuver"

It is ludicrous to suggest ...

If you had shown in your history that you were something other than a rank USOCT conspiracy theorist, you might have some measure of validity but you have never shown that.

All you have shown is that you are a USOCT conspiracy theorist who believes in a notion that is so crazy, so out of touch with reality, so impossible because of its lunacy, a notion that requires believers to be science denying anti-truthers.
 
Oh my god he literally thinks I bought an airline pilot uniform to fool some random nerd on the internet. There's no big enough :lamo for this.

Maybe the illuminati bought it for me so I could fool one ****in guy on a nerdy forum.

That wasn't a "tactical" approach, dude. That was the flight path he took. He circled back out literally like ten miles. This isn't a hard thing to do.

This wasn't a "right traffic" pattern either. It's not hard to find the largest office building on the planet when you have literally eight miles to find it.

Simulator jocks cannot appreciate doing it in a real airplane. Yes, he did make a right turn. Your little diagram, the government's diagram, shows him making a right turn, but now you want to claim he made a left turn, and that is consistent with your tortured analysis.

Guys who have never really tried anything like that in a real airplane cannot appreciate that the largest office building in the world is only 4 or 5 stories high and therefore presents no vertical profile at all on the horizon until one is at that level.

Yes, Hani really was Magnificent. Cruising along at Vmo +90, with visions of 72 virgins, he was so damn good that if he had been less than 5 feet lower he would have left skid marks on the lawn with his engine cowlings, or 5 feet higher the top segment of the vertical tail would have ended up beyond the target. :lamo By showing a photo and a hand-written note to me, you invite such comparisons to Leonardo. Thanks for the good humor.
 
Simulator jocks cannot appreciate doing it in a real airplane. Yes, he did make a right turn. Your little diagram, the government's diagram, shows him making a right turn, but now you want to claim he made a left turn, and that is consistent with your tortured analysis.
No he made a right turn nothing special about that.

Guys who have never really tried anything like that in a real airplane cannot appreciate that the largest office building in the world is only 4 or 5 stories high and therefore presents no vertical profile at all on the horizon until one is at that level.
It had a huge footprint and is very visible from far if you are high enough, or are you now gonna lie again and claim the whole flight was done at 3000'

Yes, Hani really was Magnificent.
No he wasn't but you need to pretend that only an expert pilot could have hit the pentagon, this is false based solely on your world view and lack of aviation knowledge.

Cruising along at Vmo +90,
He never cruised at Vmo +90 he hit those speeds in the final moments

with visions of 72 virgins, he was so damn good that if he had been less than 5 feet lower he would have left skid marks on the lawn with his engine cowlings, or 5 feet higher the top segment of the vertical tail would have ended up beyond the target. :lamo By showing a photo and a hand-written note to me, you invite such comparisons to Leonardo. Thanks for the good humor.
How could he have been lower according to you ground effect would have kept him from getting near the ground (BS of course but hey its your moronic claim) If he scraped the ground or hit higher up it still would have been a successful terrorist attack.
 
If you had shown in your history that you were something other than a rank USOCT conspiracy theorist, you might have some measure of validity but you have never shown that.

All you have shown is that you are a USOCT conspiracy theorist who believes in a notion that is so crazy, so out of touch with reality, so impossible because of its lunacy, a notion that requires believers to be science denying anti-truthers.

A blatant ad hominem. Not even the vaguest attempt to provide rebuttal. Pathetic.
 
Simulator jocks cannot appreciate doing it in a real airplane. Yes, he did make a right turn. Your little diagram, the government's diagram, shows him making a right turn, but now you want to claim he made a left turn, and that is consistent with your tortured analysis.

Guys who have never really tried anything like that in a real airplane cannot appreciate that the largest office building in the world is only 4 or 5 stories high and therefore presents no vertical profile at all on the horizon until one is at that level.

Yes, Hani really was Magnificent. Cruising along at Vmo +90, with visions of 72 virgins, he was so damn good that if he had been less than 5 feet lower he would have left skid marks on the lawn with his engine cowlings, or 5 feet higher the top segment of the vertical tail would have ended up beyond the target. :lamo By showing a photo and a hand-written note to me, you invite such comparisons to Leonardo. Thanks for the good humor.

I didn't claim he made a left turn. Jesus Christ. He didn't make right traffic. He made a right turn. A very wide turn. You understand the difference?

Look at the green circle. You really believe that the Pentagon was not back in his field of view from the left seat, at that location? Yes or no.
The Pentagon is 583 acres. The horizontal profile is plenty large.


He didn't cruise at Vmo+90. Jesus, is that what your conspiracy blogs told you? I already provided proof that you are wrong here, in the post on airspeed you didn't read. Vmo+90 was flown for less than eight seconds. In a dive. And you call it "cruise."

Five feet higher and the tail would miss? Uhh, who gives a **** about the tail?

You still literally believe I bought an airline uniform just to trick you. That's hilarious. As I've often said: conspiracy theory isn't believing in things that are false, it's having absurd interpretations of things that are true.
 
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A blatant ad hominem. Not even the vaguest attempt to provide rebuttal. Pathetic.

You rebut yourself, Deuce, making out you are a pilot. You never rebutted any of the myriad professional pilots/fighter pilots, who said it was not possible for these "hijackers" to have done what they are alleged to have done. You have never provided any evidence to even show there were hijackers.

Why? Because there were no hijackers, and you know this which illustrates further that you are not to be trusted in anything you say.
 
No he made a right turn nothing special about that.

Oh, so now Quag is a pilot too, one that knows better than Dr Robert Bowman, a USAF fighter pilot, PhD in aeronautics and nuclear engineering.

Why don't you put up your qualifications, Quag.

 
You rebut yourself, Deuce, making out you are a pilot. You never rebutted any of the myriad professional pilots/fighter pilots,

I did, though. I pointed out that it's silly to suggest a hijacker needs to understand hydraulic systems. That's useful for troubleshooting problems, but unnecessary to crash a plane. Technically he did operate hydraulic flight controls, but that's literally just moving the yoke and anyone who has even played aviation-themed video games understands that control input. What else? Pressurization? They didn't operate the pressurization system and had no need to. Engine oil system? All they did was move thrust levers, anyone can do that. There's no v1 cut, there's no engine fire, there's no electrical fault. I ask this question of you: which part of the event required advanced systems knowledge?

As for the maneuvers, this wasn't a fighter jet manneuver. You're doing the same thing Thoreau is, you've invented/been fed this picture of a high-bank, tight spiral precision turn to strike the buildings. But that's not what happened. Those alleged fighter pilots? They're describing some other maneuver you conspiracy people invented. Me? I'm looking at the NTSB's data from the black box. It's right there, plane as day :D . Watch the video I posted. Which part of that looks like a fighter jet pilot's wheelhouse?
 
Oh, so now Quag is a pilot too, one that knows better than Dr Robert Bowman, a USAF fighter pilot, PhD in aeronautics and nuclear engineering.

Why don't you put up your qualifications, Quag.



"It can't happen." He knew that the same-day? Ludicrous. He didn't need a single bit of analysis? What, because his aeronautics degree makes him an expert on building collapse? He doesn't provide any evidence, no argument. He doesn't even attempt to say anything like "jet fuel can't melt steel!" This video provides nothing to rebut.
 
You rebut yourself, Deuce, making out you are a pilot. You never rebutted any of the myriad professional pilots/fighter pilots, who said it was not possible for these "hijackers" to have done what they are alleged to have done. You have never provided any evidence to even show there were hijackers.

Why? Because there were no hijackers, and you know this which illustrates further that you are not to be trusted in anything you say.

Deuce just cannot grasp that Bob Bowman is more highly trained and experienced than he is. And for that matter, more concerned with truth and constitutional governance than Deuce is. The last part might be because Bowman actually took an oath to protect and defend the US Constitution. We will never know if Deuce has taken that oath. Maybe he will show us a picture of the document, so that we might believe he too took that oath.

I actually talked to Bowman on the phone once some years before he died. A very inspirational man for me. RIP
 
Deuce just cannot grasp that Bob Bowman is more highly trained and experienced than he is. And for that matter, more concerned with truth and constitutional governance than Deuce is. The last part might be because Bowman actually took an oath to protect and defend the US Constitution. We will never know if Deuce has taken that oath. Maybe he will show us a picture of the document, so that we might believe he too took that oath.

I actually talked to Bowman on the phone once some years before he died. A very inspirational man for me. RIP

I was shown a video in which a man made no arguments, and you expect me to just take his word because he's an aerospace engineer, which makes him an expert on building collapses? You think this man is so wise he just intuitively calculates a complex structual problem like an aircraft impact and severe fire, in his head, from watching the news. All regarding a structure he has no actual direct knowledge of the construction of, or design of.

Nobody on the planet can do that.

Fine. You want to go with this pathetic, blatant appeal to authority? The government did an exhaustive investigation, hiring dozens of real experts. They say I'm right. You just cannot grasp that numerous people with years of experience and direct investigational knowledge all know more about this than you. You can't grasp it. This discussion is hereby over, because Deuce has claimed the highest of experts. You don't even need to hear an argument from any of those people, just know they are experts. Bye Thoreau! :)
 
I was shown a video in which a man made no arguments, and you expect me to just take his word because he's an aerospace engineer, which makes him an expert on building collapses? You think this man is so wise he just intuitively calculates a complex structual problem like an aircraft impact and severe fire, in his head, from watching the news. All regarding a structure he has no actual direct knowledge of the construction of, or design of.

Nobody on the planet can do that.

Fine. You want to go with this pathetic, blatant appeal to authority? The government did an exhaustive investigation, hiring dozens of real experts. They say I'm right. You just cannot grasp that numerous people with years of experience and direct investigational knowledge all know more about this than you. You can't grasp it. This discussion is hereby over, because Deuce has claimed the highest of experts. You don't even need to hear an argument from any of those people, just know they are experts. Bye Thoreau! :)

The government says you're right? Actually Deuce, YOU say the government is right. A subtle difference there.

Exhaustive investigation hiring dozens of experts? Well, you're right about the "hiring" part, that's for sure.

Thank you for mercifully ending this side show. You should put a name tag on your uniform, just so you can prove it's yours Ace, I mean Deuce. :lamo
 
There has been enough posting with linked documentation from both sides. Some saying it could not be done, some saying it was and could be done.

What has not been presented with proof is what hit the Pentagon if it was not the commercial airliner. It brings back the problem with the side that believes fight 77 did not hit the Pentagon. There are multiple alternatives to it was not Flight 77.

I will ask again. What do you believe hit the Pentagon and link to the evidence you used to come to that conclusion.?
 
The government says you're right? Actually Deuce, YOU say the government is right. A subtle difference there.

Exhaustive investigation hiring dozens of experts? Well, you're right about the "hiring" part, that's for sure.

Thank you for mercifully ending this side show. You should put a name tag on your uniform, just so you can prove it's yours Ace, I mean Deuce. :lamo

Hey, you're the one who went with this tactic. You're the one who decided you can just handwave everything because one expert just says so. Well, I have more experts. Why don't you listen to them? How come you're still arguing? You just don't comprehend that they all have years of experience. And unlike this Bob fellow you just appealed to, they added actual investigation to the mix. Whereas Bob just saw it on TV and decided he knows.

This is your standard, Thoreau. Weird how it only applies when you want it to, eh?

Dodge, dodge, dodge, that's all you do. You've still not even acknowledged my discussion of airspeed. You probably saw "Vd" and immediately mentally fled because you have no idea what Vd is.
 
Hey, you're the one who went with this tactic. You're the one who decided you can just handwave everything because one expert just says so. Well, I have more experts. Why don't you listen to them? How come you're still arguing? You just don't comprehend that they all have years of experience. And unlike this Bob fellow you just appealed to, they added actual investigation to the mix. Whereas Bob just saw it on TV and decided he knows.

This is your standard, Thoreau. Weird how it only applies when you want it to, eh?

Dodge, dodge, dodge, that's all you do. You've still not even acknowledged my discussion of airspeed. You probably saw "Vd" and immediately mentally fled because you have no idea what Vd is.

Dodge, lying and insults all truthers have ever had
 
The government says you're right? Actually Deuce, YOU say the government is right. A subtle difference there.

Exhaustive investigation hiring dozens of experts? Well, you're right about the "hiring" part, that's for sure.

Thank you for mercifully ending this side show. You should put a name tag on your uniform, just so you can prove it's yours Ace, I mean Deuce. :lamo

And what do you have HD?
Fake claims of being a "flight instructor" heck you obviously aren't even a pilot.
Belief in Ct sites that admit they lie.
Insults, dodging and pure nonsense
Basically you are just a fraud with nothing but your fear and hatred of the ebil US govt.
 
And what do you have HD?
Fake claims of being a "flight instructor" heck you obviously aren't even a pilot.
Belief in Ct sites that admit they lie.
Insults, dodging and pure nonsense
Basically you are just a fraud with nothing but your fear and hatred of the ebil US govt.

That would claim his repeated use of the phrase "simulator jockey." A little projection going on.
 
That would claim his repeated use of the phrase "simulator jockey." A little projection going on.

I seriously doubt he has even used a flight simulator
 
Hey, you're the one who went with this tactic. You're the one who decided you can just handwave everything because one expert just says so. Well, I have more experts. Why don't you listen to them? How come you're still arguing? You just don't comprehend that they all have years of experience. And unlike this Bob fellow you just appealed to, they added actual investigation to the mix. Whereas Bob just saw it on TV and decided he knows.

This is your standard, Thoreau. Weird how it only applies when you want it to, eh?

Dodge, dodge, dodge, that's all you do. You've still not even acknowledged my discussion of airspeed. You probably saw "Vd" and immediately mentally fled because you have no idea what Vd is.

The difference between you and me Deuce, is that I've been instructing students since about 1971. I know what the average 350 hour student is capable of, and jumping into a Boeing, slitting throats and then jumping in the left seat and doing what was needed for the nonsense story IS IMPOSSIBLE, especially when the only flight instructors on record for this specious personality of Hanjour all say he was a horrible pilot.

You rely upon flight simulations and magic Deuce, and of course the word of known liars, whereas I rely upon my experiences as a pilot and flight instructor. :peace
 
The difference between you and me Deuce, is that I've been instructing students since about 1971. I know what the average 350 hour student is capable of, and jumping into a Boeing, slitting throats and then jumping in the left seat and doing what was needed for the nonsense story IS IMPOSSIBLE, especially when the only flight instructors on record for this specious personality of Hanjour all say he was a horrible pilot.

You rely upon flight simulations and magic Deuce, and of course the word of known liars, whereas I rely upon my experiences as a pilot and flight instructor. :peace

If you know it is impossible then you could explain why.
 
The difference between you and me Deuce, is that I've been instructing students since about 1971. I know what the average 350 hour student is capable of, and jumping into a Boeing, slitting throats and then jumping in the left seat and doing what was needed for the nonsense story IS IMPOSSIBLE, especially when the only flight instructors on record for this specious personality of Hanjour all say he was a horrible pilot.

You rely upon flight simulations and magic Deuce, and of course the word of known liars, whereas I rely upon my experiences as a pilot and flight instructor. :peace

If your 350 hour students couldn't do a five mile level turn and then a straight-line descent, you're not very good at your job. *shrug*

Didn't Hani have a commercial pilot's license? You know "can turn" is a requirement to pass that checkride, right?
 
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If your 350 hour students couldn't do a five mile level turn and then a straight-line descent, you're not very good at your job. *shrug*

Didn't Hani have a commercial pilot's license? You know "can turn" is a requirement to pass that checkride, right?

Barack Obama was "licensed" to practice law, and claimed to be a constitutional law professor, yet he signed off on the anti-constitutional Patriot Act and numerous NDAA amendments nullifying Habeas.

What is your pathetic point this time Deuce? That FAA certificates are 100% authentic, like the jacket airline pilots wear? If you instructed, you would know that any applicant for any certificate must meet only "minimum standards". I guess the better question would be "do you understand the meaning of 'minimum standards'"?
 
Barack Obama was "licensed" to practice law, and claimed to be a constitutional law professor, yet he signed off on the anti-constitutional Patriot Act and numerous NDAA amendments nullifying Habeas.

What is your pathetic point this time Deuce? That FAA certificates are 100% authentic, like the jacket airline pilots wear? If you instructed, you would know that any applicant for any certificate must meet only "minimum standards". I guess the better question would be "do you understand the meaning of 'minimum standards'"?
Apparently you dont
 
Thoreau put me on ignore :lamo

I guess that's the thread, then. Good info on page 1 for any non aviation folks curious. One of these days I'll do a thread addressing the supposed problems with the FDR.
 
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