• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Building 7 . . .

Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

cuban smokes said:
Too many folks in the thread are attempting to complicate matters.

There is nothing complicated about the fact that WTC 7 initial collapse was 2.5 seconds of literal free fall. There is no debate in that fact, period.
Click to expand...

So you don't understand the math or the problem with prepping the buildings for cd with nobody noticing. Fair enough. We'll leave it there as it seems far too complicated for you.
 
Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

zyzygy said:
So you don't understand the math or the problem with prepping the buildings for cd with nobody noticing. Fair enough. We'll leave it there as it seems far too complicated for you.
Click to expand...


it may be too complicated for you: Within your post #273 you state, "Let's see now, that's 110 floors."

WTC 7 was a 47 floor structure, NOT, "110 floors."

Yes, we see it's a bit complicated, for you ...........
 
Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

cuban smokes said:
it may be too complicated for you: Within your post #273 you state, "Let's see now, that's 110 floors."

WTC 7 was a 47 floor structure, NOT, "110 floors."

Yes, we see it's a bit complicated, for you ...........
Click to expand...

Think about what caused WTC 7 to collapse. Or are you saying that only WTC 7 was a cd?
 
Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

World Trade Center 7 did not collapse. It was demolished.
SIMPLE REBUTTAL: Riiiight, so the world's tallest tower collapses on its neighbour less than 200m across the road. You've got 110 storeys of rubble pummelling a 47-storey building, setting it on fire, covering it in untold extra weight and inflicted untold stresses. And later that day, when the smaller building collapses, it's obvious the CIA did it with explosives. And Elvis left the building right before it happened.
Oh, and if you want a secondary explanation of why the building really wasn't toppled by mysterious people with explosives, try googling any of the so-called architects or engineers in the wacky YouTube vids. Almost none of them appear to be either a) currently employed or b) affiliated with any group other than 9/11 conspiracy groups.

Six really stupid 9/11 conspiracies debunked in about six seconds
 
Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

cuban smokes said:
that WTC 7 initial collapse was 2.5 seconds of literal free fall. There is no debate in that fact, period.
Click to expand...
That statement is completely false and is only meant to mislead people.

The "initial collapse" as you put it was when the east penthouse of WTC7 first collapsed into the building proper (6 to 7 seconds before the roofline started to descend BTW). That then propagated to the rest of the penthouse collapsing followed by what remained of WTC7 at that point.

So the correct statement would be:

"What remained of WTC7 after the internal penthouse had already collapsed fell at an average speed of free fall for 2.5 seconds." Quite different from your original statement isn't it?
 
Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

cuban smokes said:
how WTC 7 managed to collapse at the speed of normal gravity aka free fall rate, for the first 2.5 seconds of collapse.
Click to expand...
Here is a video of the entire collapse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqbUkThGlCo

The collapse starts at :03. Are you saying that was when the 2.5 seconds of free fall started or are you conveniently skipping that penthouse collapse and going right to the roof line descent?
 
Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

Fear & Loathing

When one controls the security guards at any given building, it is easy to do what you want, what you need, in terms of preparing the building for its demolition. From early on, it's been known that tenants in the towers at least were warned that on the weekend before 9/11, the towers would be powered down, and then brought back up. Tenants were warned of that for computer data purposes, according to a British man who worked inside.

Much of the WTC held federal offices, federal records including Enron.
 
Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

gamolon said:
That statement is completely false and is only meant to mislead people.

The "initial collapse" as you put it was when the east penthouse of WTC7 first collapsed into the building proper (6 to 7 seconds before the roofline started to descend BTW). That then propagated to the rest of the penthouse collapsing followed by what remained of WTC7 at that point.

So the correct statement would be:

"What remained of WTC7 after the internal penthouse had already collapsed fell at an average speed of free fall for 2.5 seconds." Quite different from your original statement isn't it?
Click to expand...

Far too complicated.
 
Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

cuban smokes said:
what is of NOTE: NIST, after many years finally admitted that WTC 7 did indeed for at least 2.5 seconds fall at the rate of gravity = free fall = THERE is a start

HOWEVER: NIST never offered a rational explanation for the 2.5 second free fall, period.

the only examples of steel frame high rise buildings EVER in the history of humanity ever collapsing at 'free fall' speed aka at gravity have ONLY been during controlled demolitions, period.

So, within that context, IMO it would be up to the US Government to offer a NEW, non bull**** opinion as to how WTC 7 managed to collapse at the speed of normal gravity aka free fall rate, for the first 2.5 seconds of collapse.

to date, 16 years plus, there have been no takers, NIST, the US Government (which is NIST), no one ................ but then we ALL know why ................
Click to expand...



My impression of the video was that the whole building was in free fall for the whole time. I have seen buildings that have collapsed because of fire and they don't EVER go straight down.
 
Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

Fearandloathing said:
My impression of the video was that the whole building was in free fall for the whole time. I have seen buildings that have collapsed because of fire and they don't EVER go straight down.
Click to expand...

If the buildings you've seen collapsed from fire, and they did not go straight down, which way did they go? Do you recall the names or locations and dates of those you've seen?
 
Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

gamolon said:
That statement is completely false and is only meant to mislead people.
Click to expand...

Your statement is 100% false and all you ever do is mislead people. It was free fall as discovered by the scientists, architects, engineers, physicists, in a word, PROFESSIONALS, of which you are NOT!

Free fall across the entire length of the building could not occur by a small portion of one side collapsing the entire building. A person does not have to be a scientist, architect, engineer, physicist, in a word, a PROFESSIONAL, to know this is the case.

Additionally, you ignore another professional, an engineer, a forensic engineer, who says that WTC7 did not fall as NIST said it did. He did a two year study to determine this. You just read goofy unprofessional debunker websites that are also only interested in deception/distraction, websites that cannot provide zero evidence for the same wacky USGOCT.

So again, stop pretending you are someone who can offer expert opinions on this issue. Even if you were a professional, you have illustrated in spades that you are a person only interested in deception/distraction/making up silly excuses for a USGOCT that you can provide zero evidence for.
 
Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

Funny how some focus on a part of the collapse and ignore The other 3+seconds.

"The approach taken by NIST is summarized in NIST NCSTAR Report 1A, Section 3.6, and detailed in NIST NCSTAR Report 1-9, Section 12.5.3.

The analyses of the video (both the estimation of the instant the roofline began to descend and the calculated velocity and acceleration of a point on the roofline) revealed three distinct stages characterizing the 5.4 seconds of collapse:
Stage 1 (0 to 1.75 seconds): acceleration less than that of gravity (i.e., slower than free fall).
Stage 2 (1.75 to 4.0 seconds): gravitational acceleration (free fall)
Stage 3 (4.0 to 5.4 seconds): decreased acceleration, again less than that of gravity
This analysis showed that the 40 percent longer descent time—compared to the 3.9 second free fall time—was due primarily to Stage 1, which corresponded to the buckling of the exterior columns in the lower stories of the north face. During Stage 2, the north face descended essentially in free fall, indicating negligible support from the structure below. This is consistent with the structural analysis model, which showed the exterior columns buckling and losing their capacity to support the loads from the structure above. In Stage 3, the acceleration decreased as the upper portion of the north face encountered increased resistance from the collapsed structure and the debris pile below."

So while there was a period of time at free fall, it is hardly the total collapse at free fall.

It would be nice is some would be more correct in there posting rather than posting the controlled demolition talking points.
When one resorts to name calling it shows they really have nothing to offer.
 
Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

mike2810 said:
Funny how some focus on a part of the collapse and ignore The other 3+seconds.

"The approach taken by NIST is summarized in NIST NCSTAR Report 1A, Section 3.6, and detailed in NIST NCSTAR Report 1-9, Section 12.5.3.

The analyses of the video (both the estimation of the instant the roofline began to descend and the calculated velocity and acceleration of a point on the roofline) revealed three distinct stages characterizing the 5.4 seconds of collapse:
Stage 1 (0 to 1.75 seconds): acceleration less than that of gravity (i.e., slower than free fall).
Stage 2 (1.75 to 4.0 seconds): gravitational acceleration (free fall)
Stage 3 (4.0 to 5.4 seconds): decreased acceleration, again less than that of gravity
This analysis showed that the 40 percent longer descent time—compared to the 3.9 second free fall time—was due primarily to Stage 1, which corresponded to the buckling of the exterior columns in the lower stories of the north face. During Stage 2, the north face descended essentially in free fall, indicating negligible support from the structure below. This is consistent with the structural analysis model, which showed the exterior columns buckling and losing their capacity to support the loads from the structure above. In Stage 3, the acceleration decreased as the upper portion of the north face encountered increased resistance from the collapsed structure and the debris pile below."

So while there was a period of time at free fall, it is hardly the total collapse at free fall.

It would be nice is some would be more correct in there posting rather than posting the controlled demolition talking points.
When one resorts to name calling it shows they really have nothing to offer.
Click to expand...

They certainly have no full alternative theory. Name calling is their limit.
 
Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

zyzygy said:
They certainly have no full alternative theory. Name calling is their limit.
Click to expand...

It is the cherry picking, use partial true facts and then insult that I despise. There are other sites where one can discuss 9/11 in more technical and adult fashion than on here.
 
Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

mike2810 said:
Funny how some focus on a part of the collapse and ignore The other 3+seconds.

So while there was a period of time at free fall, it is hardly the total collapse at free fall.
Click to expand...

Funny how some focus on things that they are not qualified to discuss in any professional way.

Funny how some fail to mention NIST's many bald faced lies, the fact that NIST's study was totally flawed, the fact that NIST result has ZERO chance of being true.

Funny how some fail to mention that free fall is NOT POSSIBLE in a gravity collapse no mater when it occurs UNLESS a controlled demolition has removed the columns, beams and girders.

Remember, Professor Hulsey, the forensic structural engineer says that WTC7 could not collapse the way it did because of the way WTC7 was built.
 
Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

mike2810 said:
It is the cherry picking, use partial true facts and then insult that I despise. There are other sites where one can discuss 9/11 in more technical and adult fashion than on here.
Click to expand...

Why do you keep whining, mike, about things that you USGOCT supporters all do yourselves?

All you all ever do is nit pick at the hard science that shows the USGOCT has no chance of being true. But you folks still have never provided any hard evidence, actually no evidence at all that shows the USGOCT has any veracity.
 
Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

camlok said:
Funny how some focus on things that they are not qualified to discuss in any professional way.

Funny how some fail to mention NIST's many bald faced lies, the fact that NIST's study was totally flawed, the fact that NIST result has ZERO chance of being true.

Funny how some fail to mention that free fall is NOT POSSIBLE in a gravity collapse no mater when it occurs UNLESS a controlled demolition has removed the columns, beams and girders.

Remember, Professor Hulsey, the forensic structural engineer says that WTC7 could not collapse the way it did because of the way WTC7 was built.
Click to expand...

Funny how much hyperbole in that post...
 
Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

camlok said:
Funny how some focus on things that they are not qualified to discuss in any professional way.

Funny how some fail to mention NIST's many bald faced lies, the fact that NIST's study was totally flawed, the fact that NIST result has ZERO chance of being true.

Funny how some fail to mention that free fall is NOT POSSIBLE in a gravity collapse no mater when it occurs UNLESS a controlled demolition has removed the columns, beams and girders.

Remember, Professor Hulsey, the forensic structural engineer says that WTC7 could not collapse the way it did because of the way WTC7 was built.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I know you won't answer questions and are your just trying to get a rise out. Won't work.

Unless your provide a link to sources to back the statement of "free fall is NOT POSSIBLE in a gravity collapse no mater when it occurs UNLESS a controlled demolition has removed tcolumns, beams and girders." , your statement will be considered false.

Provide the link to Hulsey quote:

You do realize that the study Hulsey did does not disprove a fire induced collapse. It does not prove a controlled demolition.
 
Last edited:
Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

camlok said:
Why do you keep whining, mike, about things that you USGOCT supporters all do yourselves?

All you all ever do is nit pick at the hard science that shows the USGOCT has no chance of being true. But you folks still have never provided any hard evidence, actually no evidence at all that shows the USGOCT has any veracity.
Click to expand...

I will say it one more time. You seem to not understand. One can accept that WTC7 failed due to a fire induced collapse without accepting the USGOCT.

Still waiting for you and other controlled demolition supporters to provide the hard science and details on how the CD was done. I also am still waiting for you and others to answer questions already asked regarding the CD.

Interesting you think I am nit picking and you are not. Pretty funny.
 
Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

cuban smokes said:
the math is pure gravity aka 'free fall' which NIST originally refused to acknowledge .................... they eventually agreed BUT their full explanation does NOT corroborate the dimension of WTC 7 & the timing of the collapse.

I really don't give a **** about you, or your ****ty opinion; you obviously don't believe in the fail proof nature of mathematical truths which is just fine by me

you & your ilk can lie to yourselves until the GodDamn cows come home; I don't give a **** .............

you can believe whatever the **** you like; I am not here to convince you, or anyone else that mathematical truths do not change through out all time, period ...........
Click to expand...

Moderator's Warning:
Tone it down, cuban. Civility is key, here.
 
Re: High School Teacher BUTCHERS NIST WTC 7 Report

beefheart said:
Funny how much hyperbole in that post...
Click to expand...

Funny how he doesn't address how a building can be prepped for cd without anyone noticing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom