Plasco building collapse discussion...

gamolon · Aug 9, 2017

Per gerrycan's suggestion...

gerrycan said:
And if that inspires a Plasco collapse response from you, I would respectfully suggest another thread for it.

I respectfully created a thread as you suggested. So what are you going to start with?

mike2810 · Aug 9, 2017

My predictions for this thread is it will quickly evolve back to the WTC and why the govt reports are wrong.

I started a thread to discuss Jeff Prager's book for the mini neutron bomb use in the destruction of WTC1,2,7. Basically nothing was posted in discussion of the nukes. It had more opinions on why NIST could not be correct.

Started a thread for any controlled demolition explanation. Same thing. It quickly evolved into well it couldn't be fire, therefore it had to be CD.

Good luck with this thread.

gerrycan · Aug 9, 2017

mike2810 said:
My predictions for this thread is it will quickly evolve back to the WTC and why the govt reports are wrong.

I started a thread to discuss Jeff Prager's book for the mini neutron bomb use in the destruction of WTC1,2,7. Basically nothing was posted in discussion of the nukes. It had more opinions on why NIST could not be correct.

Started a thread for any controlled demolition explanation. Same thing. It quickly evolved into well it couldn't be fire, therefore it had to be CD.

Good luck with this thread.

Who do you think will mention those buildings first in the thread Mike ?

gerrycan · Aug 9, 2017

gamolon said:
Per gerrycan's suggestion...

I respectfully created a thread as you suggested. So what are you going to start with?

Right, so the basics of the building would be good to agree on first.

42m high for 14 storeys + ground floor. 17 storey total. Storeys <3m each
approx 29300 m^2 total floor area - >1723m^2 per floor.
approx 19.85m for N and S face and 21.66m for E and W face @ 11:12 ratio
single steels are approx 25cm square
Steels tied into West wall and Mall structure transitioning to ground via forks at just above mall height.
Elevator on West wall between steel vertical doubles.
Single steels on South face tied into belt truss just below first floor.

Rough sketch....

gamolon · Aug 10, 2017

gerrycan said:
Right, so the basics of the building would be good to agree on first.

42m high for 14 storeys + ground floor. 17 storey total. Storeys <3m each

Question. 14 stories + ground floor = 17 stories? Are you saying there were 3 floors/stories that made up the ground floor?

zyzygy · Aug 10, 2017

gamolon said:
Question. 14 stories + ground floor = 17 stories? Are you saying there were 3 floors/stories that made up the ground floor?

These truthers have an amazing grasp of architecture and engineering.

gerrycan · Aug 10, 2017

gamolon said:
Question. 14 stories + ground floor = 17 stories? Are you saying there were 3 floors/stories that made up the ground floor?

No, the ground floor was slightly higher that the storeys above, and there were 2 levels below ground from street level at the South face.

gerrycan · Aug 10, 2017

To be clear - the given height for the building is 42m, and if that referred to 17 storeys it would equate to approx 2.5m per storey including the floor itself. Which would be ridiculous.

gamolon · Aug 10, 2017

gerrycan said:
No, the ground floor was slightly higher that the storeys above, and there were 2 levels below ground from street level at the South face.

So you are saying that 14 stories + ground floor + 2 levels below ground = 17 stories? Correct?

Also, you are wrong about there being 2 levels below ground. There was only 1. The entrance from the front of the building led to a stairway leading down to the only level with fountains on it. See photo below. The picture was taken from the top of that stairway on the ground floor.

Below is a photo of the entrance to the building on the ground level with the gate closed.

Below is a screen capture from a video looking at the top of that stairway leading down to the fountain level. There is a "guard shack" seen with the ground level entrance behind it.

Another picture from inside showing the "guard shack" and entrance behind both on the ground floor.

gerrycan · Aug 10, 2017

gamolon said:
So you are saying that 14 stories + ground floor + 2 levels below ground = 17 stories? Correct?

Also, you are wrong about there being 2 levels below ground. There was only 1. The entrance from the front of the building led to a stairway leading down to the only level with fountains on it. See photo below. The picture was taken from the top of that stairway on the ground floor.
View attachment 67221090

Below is a photo of the entrance to the building on the ground level with the gate closed.
View attachment 67221091

Below is a screen capture from a video looking at the top of that stairway leading down to the fountain level. There is a "guard shack" seen with the ground level entrance behind it.
View attachment 67221092

Another picture from inside showing the "guard shack" and entrance behind both on the ground floor.
View attachment 67221093

Ok, so how many levels does the 42m above ground height refer to ?

gamolon · Aug 10, 2017

gerrycan said:
No, the ground floor was slightly higher that the storeys above,

How tall do you think the ground floor was? Use the picture below picture with people in it for scale. Use the top of the green signage/roof on the left or the top of the black/yellow signage/roof on the right as the top of the ground floor. You can use the height of the guy walking in front of the entrance with the white/light colored shirt for scale. Use approximately 5 feet (1.524 meters) or 6 feet (1.8288 meters)

gamolon · Aug 10, 2017

gerrycan said:
Ok, so how many levels does the 42m above ground height refer to ?

I count 14 floors above the top of the signage on the ground level I mentioned in the post above. Normally I would take 42m to be from the ground up. So in essence, that would be the ground floor level plus the 14 floors.

gerrycan · Aug 10, 2017

gamolon said:
I count 14 floors above the top of the signage on the ground level I mentioned in the post above. Normally I would take 42m to be from the ground up. So in essence, that would be the ground floor level plus the 14 floors.

(my emphasis)

"42m high for 14 storeys + ground floor." <--- my original post.

What exactly are you disagreeing with here ?

gamolon · Aug 10, 2017

gerrycan said:
Ok, so how many levels does the 42m above ground height refer to ?

Depending on the hoeight of the guy (between 5 feet tall and 6 feet tall), I get surmise the ground floor height (from ground to top of signage/roofline) to be between 4 and 5 meters tall. What do you get?

gerrycan · Aug 10, 2017

gamolon said:
Depending on the hoeight of the guy (between 5 feet tall and 6 feet tall), I get surmise the ground floor height (from ground to top of signage/roofline) to be between 4 and 5 meters tall. What do you get?

If you could clarify if you are disputing what I posted in the first place or not, I would appreciate that "(42m high for 14 storeys + ground floor.)"

Working on proportions I would say that the ground and basement floors are 1.5 x the above storey heights. Perhaps a little more than 5m.

gamolon · Aug 10, 2017

gerrycan said:
(my emphasis)

"42m high for 14 storeys + ground floor." <--- my original post.

What exactly are you disagreeing with here ?

I'm trying to clarify your posts.

gerrycan said:
42m high for 14 storeys + ground floor. 17 storey total.

How does 14 storeys + ground floor = 17 storeys? Are you saying the ground floor is 3 storeys?

gerrycan · Aug 10, 2017

gamolon said:
I'm trying to clarify your posts.

How does 14 storeys + ground floor = 17 storeys? Are you saying the ground floor is 3 storeys?

No. The ground floor and the basement = around the equivalent of 3 floors, maybe a bit more.
Again, I am saying that the building is 42m high which refers to the ground floor + 14 storeys above, which you seem to be agreeing with.

How many storeys of a building are you saying this is ?

gamolon · Aug 10, 2017

gerrycan said:
If you could clarify if you are disputing what I posted in the first place or not, I would appreciate that "(42m high for 14 storeys + ground floor.)"

Working on proportions I would say that the ground and basement floors are 1.5 x the above storey heights. Perhaps a little more than 5m.

Ok, so given what you just posted, that makes each of the 14 stories 2.6 meters high. That gives us 42m - 5m (ground floor) = 37 meters. 14 stories / 37 meters = 2.6 meters.

gerrycan said:
To be clear - the given height for the building is 42m, and if that referred to 17 storeys it would equate to approx 2.5m per storey including the floor itself. Which would be ridiculous.

So you think 2.5 meters is ridiculous but using the numbers you supplied above (14 stories + 5m+ ground floor), 2.6 meters is ok?

gerrycan · Aug 10, 2017

This might help. Here's my sketch of the N and S faces, red lines being ground level and roof level, from which the 42m height is taken.

gamolon · Aug 10, 2017

gerrycan said:
This might help. Here's my sketch of the N and S faces, red lines being ground level and roof level, from which the 42m height is taken.
View attachment 67221095

I get that. I am trying to understand your logic. You are saying the gound floor itself is just over 5m correct? With 14 floors/stories above that. 42m high from ground to roof. If the ground floor is 5m meters like you say, then that leaves up with 37m for 14 storeys. That means that each storey is 2.6 meters high. Yet in this quote, you say 2.5m for each story is ridiculous:

gerrycan said:
To be clear - the given height for the building is 42m, and if that referred to 17 storeys it would equate to approx 2.5m per storey including the floor itself. Which would be ridiculous.

gamolon · Aug 10, 2017

gerrycan said:
To be clear - the given height for the building is 42m, and if that referred to 17 storeys it would equate to approx 2.5m per storey including the floor itself. Which would be ridiculous.

Just an FYI...

https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-minimum-comfortable-height-for-an-apartment-ceiling

In many jurisdictions, this question tends to be trumped by the building regulations. For instance, in France the minimum permitted ceiling height is 2.3m; in Western Australia 2.4m in most rooms but 2.1m in corridors; in Sweden 2.6m and Ireland and New South Wales 2.7m. There's no national standard in the United Kingdom, but a study published by the Mayor of London in 2010 recommended at least 2.6m with a minimum of 2.5m (Page on london.gov.uk).

So you saying that 2.5m for a story/floor height is ridiculous is... well... ridiculous.

gerrycan · Aug 10, 2017

gamolon said:
I get that. I am trying to understand your logic. You are saying the gound floor itself is just over 5m correct? With 14 floors/stories above that. 42m high from ground to roof. If the ground floor is 5m meters like you say, then that leaves up with 37m for 14 storeys. That means that each storey is 2.6 meters high. Yet in this quote, you say 2.5m for each story is ridiculous:

Can you see this video here in your country ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmYqkRTqtrI
If so look at the B+W film around 1:05 - it is people in the elevator on the top floor restaurant.

gerrycan · Aug 10, 2017

gamolon said:
Just an FYI...

https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-minimum-comfortable-height-for-an-apartment-ceiling

So you saying that 2.5m for a story/floor height is ridiculous is... well... ridiculous.

How thick do you think the floors were - i said that the floor would be included in the storey height.

gerrycan · Aug 10, 2017

gamolon said:
Just an FYI...

https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-minimum-comfortable-height-for-an-apartment-ceiling

So you saying that 2.5m for a story/floor height is ridiculous is... well... ridiculous.

What I am saying is that 2.5m for this building is wrong.
14 x 2.5m = 35m which would leave 7m for the ground floor.

Certainly the floors that I have video for look more than that.

gamolon · Aug 10, 2017

gerrycan said:
What I am saying is that 2.5m for this building is wrong.
14 x 2.5m = 35m which would leave 7m for the ground floor.

Certainly the floors that I have video for look more than that.

gerrycan.

Obviously the 14 stories above the ground floor is correct because we can count them. The ground floor is about 5 meters high as that is what I scaled it (and you said it was just over 5m). You have said the building is 42m high. 42m - 5m (ground floor) gives us 37m. 37m / 14 stories = 2.64m per story.

Where is the error then in your opinion? Can't be the 14 stories because we can count them in photos. Is it the 42m as the height?

All these numbers are coming from YOU.