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Plasco building collapse discussion...

The elevator in the video of the actual building is probably more than 2.5m just itself, and there is about another 1/5 of the elevator height outside it to the ceiling. Either that or all the people in the film are midgets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmYqkRTqtrI
Either 42m is not the correct height or the storeys were not uniform, which is possible for the top level restaurant.
Most of the calcs I did were based on the ratios of the building - ie 11:12 (less the corners) for S:W / N:E faces. and obviously 4:3 ratio for the internal column rectangle.
On that basis I used the given figures which are 43m height and 17 storeys. So short of getting someone in Tehran to go find 2 still existing building heights for us and triangulating the actual height from that there's no point in even discussing it if you want to dispute the given figures. What to do is to state what YOU think the figures are, clearly.
 
gerrycan said:
The elevator in the video of the actual building is probably more than 2.5m just itself, and there is about another 1/5 of the elevator height outside it to the ceiling. Either that or all the people in the film are midgets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmYqkRTqtrI
Either 42m is not the correct height or the storeys were not uniform, which is possible for the top level restaurant.
Most of the calcs I did were based on the ratios of the building - ie 11:12 (less the corners) for S:W / N:E faces. and obviously 4:3 ratio for the internal column rectangle.
On that basis I used the given figures which are 43m height and 17 storeys. So short of getting someone in Tehran to go find 2 still existing building heights for us and triangulating the actual height from that there's no point in even discussing it if you want to dispute the given figures. What to do is to state what YOU think the figures are, clearly.
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I can't see the video as it is blocked. Can you take a screen shot and post it here please?
 
gamolon said:
I can't see the video as it is blocked. Can you take a screen shot and post it here please?
Click to expand...

I will remove the blocked content and add the new URL on this post once it is edited. Shouldn't take long. There's a few internal video shots in it that may help.
 
gerrycan said:
The elevator in the video of the actual building is probably more than 2.5m just itself, and there is about another 1/5 of the elevator height outside it to the ceiling. Either that or all the people in the film are midgets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmYqkRTqtrI
Either 42m is not the correct height or the storeys were not uniform, which is possible for the top level restaurant.
Most of the calcs I did were based on the ratios of the building - ie 11:12 (less the corners) for S:W / N:E faces. and obviously 4:3 ratio for the internal column rectangle.
On that basis I used the given figures which are 43m height and 17 storeys. So short of getting someone in Tehran to go find 2 still existing building heights for us and triangulating the actual height from that there's no point in even discussing it if you want to dispute the given figures. What to do is to state what YOU think the figures are, clearly.
Click to expand...
For God's sake gerrycan.

The building was 42m high.
There were 14 stories above the ground floor.
The ground floor scales about 5m high.

42m high - 5m (ground floor) = 37m.

37m for 14 stories gives us 2.64m (8.7 feet) per story. taking out .1m (4") for a concrete floor, that leaves us with 2.54m from top of floor to bottom of ceiling. That is well within the average ceiling height per this article:

In many jurisdictions, this question tends to be trumped by the building regulations. For instance, in France the minimum permitted ceiling height is 2.3m; in Western Australia 2.4m in most rooms but 2.1m in corridors; in Sweden 2.6m and Ireland and New South Wales 2.7m. There's no national standard in the United Kingdom, but a study published by the Mayor of London in 2010 recommended at least 2.6m with a minimum of 2.5m (Page on london.gov.uk).
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Furthermore, a 5m ground floor equals 2 stories. That gives us 16 stories total.
 
gamolon said:
For God's sake gerrycan.

The building was 42m high.
There were 14 stories above the ground floor.
The ground floor scales about 5m high.

42m high - 5m (ground floor) = 37m.

37m for 14 stories gives us 2.64m (8.7 feet) per story. taking out .1m (4") for a concrete floor, that leaves us with 2.54m from top of floor to bottom of ceiling. That is well within the average ceiling height per this article:



Furthermore, a 5m ground floor equals 2 stories. That gives us 16 stories total.
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okay, here's the URL for that video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmYqkRTqtrI
 
gerrycan said:
okay, here's the URL for that video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmYqkRTqtrI
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Ok, I watched it. That video is irrelevant to the discussion at hand right now.

You say 2.5m is ridiculous for each story. So what number that YOU used to come up with 2.5m per story is incorrect?

I have told you many times that 14 stories HAS to be correct because we can count them in videos and photos. We know there is a ground floor beneath those 14 stories. That is verified by video and pictures. you have cited 42m meters as the building's height many times and have sourced it from different sites. The ground floor has been scaled to be around 5 meters or so high.

You're the one claiming 2.5m is ridiculous not me. You need to resolve this.
 
gamolon said:
Ok, I watched it. That video is irrelevant to the discussion at hand right now.

You say 2.5m is ridiculous for each story. So what number that YOU used to come up with 2.5m per story is incorrect?

I have told you many times that 14 stories HAS to be correct because we can count them in videos and photos. We know there is a ground floor beneath those 14 stories. That is verified by video and pictures. you have cited 42m meters as the building's height many times and have sourced it from different sites. The ground floor has been scaled to be around 5 meters or so high.

You're the one claiming 2.5m is ridiculous not me. You need to resolve this.
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I think that the floor that is in the film where they are eating and getting into the elevator is higher than 2.5m floor to ceiling.

I don't think it actually matters that much I suppose, but it clearly is.
 
gerrycan said:
I think that the floor that is in the film where they are eating and getting into the elevator is higher than 2.5m floor to ceiling.

I don't think it actually matters that much I suppose, but it clearly is.
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That's wonderful.

You say 2.5m is ridiculous for a story height. You think 2.5m is wrong. You derived 2.5m from a set of numbers. Which one of those number is wrong then? 14 stories? 42m height? 5m ground floor height? One of them has to be. Your the one with the issue with 2.5m. You need to figure out which number it is.

My findings?

42m - 5m (ground floor) = 37m

37m /14 stories = 2.64m (8.66 feet) per story/floor.

I don't have an issue with that height.
 
gamolon said:
That's wonderful.

You say 2.5m is ridiculous for a story height. You think 2.5m is wrong. You derived 2.5m from a set of numbers. Which one of those number is wrong then? 14 stories? 42m height? 5m ground floor height? One of them has to be. Your the one with the issue with 2.5m. You need to figure out which number it is.

My findings?

42m - 5m (ground floor) = 37m

37m /14 stories = 2.64m (8.66 feet) per story/floor.

I don't have an issue with that height.
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I say that 2.5m is ridiculous for the floors that I have actual video of the inside of the building for. Unless everyone in that movie was a midget.
 
gerrycan said:
I say that 2.5m is ridiculous for the floors that I have actual video of the inside of the building for. Unless everyone in that movie was a midget.
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Great!

SO WHERE IS THE ERROR THEN?!

Is 14 stories above the ground floor wrong?
Is the published height of 42m the building wrong?
Is the ground floor being 5m-7m wrong?

Which is it?
 
gerrycan said:
42m high for 14 storeys + ground floor. 17 storey total. Storeys <3m each
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Are you saying that you think the information above you posted is correct?
 
gamolon said:
Are you saying that you think the information above you posted is correct?
Click to expand...

That depends on how you count it, and what expert you listen to I suppose.
I reckon the CTBUH guide is fairly good. maybe the 17th usable floor was counted as the roof. Who knows
Calculating the height of a tall building where only the number of stories is known.
How many do you think it is ? I thought you had previously argued that it was 17 when it was disputed on the thread that you referenced @ jref earlier this week, no ?

Either way, call it 16 if you like, I can live with that.
 
gerrycan said:
I say that 2.5m is ridiculous for the floors that I have actual video of the inside of the building for. Unless everyone in that movie was a midget.
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How about this gerrycan?
plasco_ground_floor.jpg

The store named "BENAM" is on the ground level. You see the store "NAVID" to the right of it? Look at the mannequin in the upper window. That shows the ground level had two floors/stories to it.
 
gamolon said:
How about this gerrycan?
View attachment 67221109

The store named "BENAM" is on the ground level. You see the store "NAVID" to the right of it? Look at the mannequin in the upper window. That shows the ground level had two floors/stories to it.
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This is getting interesting now. These floors are in the mall ground level, below the height of the first storey level in the tower aren't they ?

Maybe you should check what I said initially. The statement you disputed and we can take it from there.

Also be clear when you are talking about the ground level of the Mall and the Basement level of the tower. Important to make that distinction.

I wonder of they were included in the 42m calculation.

maybe this perspective will help.
image046.jpg
 
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gerrycan said:
Maybe you should check what I said initially. The statement you disputed and we can take it from there.
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Which statement?

gerrycan said:
Also be clear when you are talking about the ground level of the Mall and the Basement level of the tower. Important to make that distinction.
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Yes

gerrycan said:
maybe this perspective will help.
View attachment 67221110
Click to expand...
[/quote]
For determining what?

Here is a photo from the basement level. Not near the same height as the ground level.
Plasco_basement.jpg
 
gamolon said:
Which statement?


Yes
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For determining what?

Here is a photo from the basement level. Not near the same height as the ground level.
View attachment 67221111[/QUOTE]

Please tell me you are not supposing that the 42m height was taken from the mall ground floor...
 
gerrycan said:
Ok, so how many levels does the 42m above ground height refer to ?
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It has to be >14 based on the fact that we can count 14 above the top of the ground floor. Then, using the photo that shows 2 more levels that make up the ground level, I would say 16.
 
gamolon said:
It has to be >14 based on the fact that we can count 14 above the top of the ground floor. Then, using the photo that shows 2 more levels that make up the ground level, I would say 16.
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And what about your thread that you referenced at jref ? Seems to have been a bit confusion amongst you and your mates there about just how many storeys there were.
Personally I think this building has at least 17 usable levels, that being a far clearer term.

Oh yeah, and you forgot to say where you thought the 42m height was taken from, I say it is from street level at the tower entrance. you ?
 
gerrycan said:
Oh yeah, and you forgot to say where you thought the 42m height was taken from, I say it is from street level at the tower entrance. you ?
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Do you really have a comprehension problem? You keep making incorrect statements about what I post and asking questions that I have already answered. Or are you just playing games now?

gamolon said:
I count 14 floors above the top of the signage on the ground level I mentioned in the post above. Normally I would take 42m to be from the ground up. So in essence, that would be the ground floor level plus the 14 floors.
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gamolon said:
Do you really have a comprehension problem? You keep making incorrect statements about what I post and asking questions that I have already answered. Or are you just playing games now?
Click to expand...

If that's your way of saying that you take the height from the South face street level, then great we agree.
Can't remember the names of the americans that designed it, I have it elsewhere, but I would defer to them for floor levels and storey counts if that info is forthcoming from them.

ETA Benjamin Brown and Spero Daltas were the designers.
 
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gerrycan said:
If that's your way of saying that you take the height from the South face street level, then great we agree.
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No, it's my way of telling you to pay attention. Not only did I explain to you what I thought the 42m included, I have been using the 14 stories above the ground floor AND the ground floor in all my story height calculations. Never did I include the basement in any of those.

Quit playing games.
 
gerrycan said:
And what about your thread that you referenced at jref ? Seems to have been a bit confusion amongst you and your mates there about just how many storeys there were.
Personally I think this building has at least 17 usable levels
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First, people have different definitions of what a "story" is in a building. Some people include basement levels in there description of how many stories there are and some don't. That is why I said "I normally go from the ground up".

Anyways, I say there are 16 levels or stories above the ground. Most people say 17. To me, 17 includes the one fountain level below the ground.

There are 17 total "levels". Take your pick.
 
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