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Frank Greening's Latest dust study
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Thoreau72
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The event happened 15 years ago, and the cover-up has been going on 24/7 ever since. What's your point? That repetition of a lie makes it become true?
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That seems what your are trying to do. Repeating lies and trying to show it is the truth. Interesting how many organizations like AE911T do not agree with your conclusions.
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Funny how the only "lies" you seem to take issue with are the ones the government are supposedly telling. I don;t see you ever taking issue with any lies other truther tell. Have any comments on camlok's long list of lies? Anyone else? Not to keen on addressing Gage's take on the nuke theory eh?
As always Thoreau72, follow your mantra:
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend"...
You refuse to speak about any lies spewed by your fellow truthers as long as they speak against the government.
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I've read Greenings new paper and its hilarious watching you pantomime debunkers think it's some kind of debunking shinola, when it's nothing of a sort. :lamo
Greening as done some good work but his conclusion is some what bizarre.
The paper claims that iron particles come from the concrete because according to the NIST fire simulation, the fires were not hot enough.
So they are using a simulation from the NIST, who are famous for making dodgy simulations (WTC 7 anyone!) and use that to draw a conclusion, even though there is plenty of evidence to show that temperatures were higher than 900c.
And there isn't a single piece of evidence to support the notion that it came from the concrete, it's nothing more than an assumption. :lol:
Greening as done some good work but his conclusion is some what bizarre.
The paper claims that iron particles come from the concrete because according to the NIST fire simulation, the fires were not hot enough.
So they are using a simulation from the NIST, who are famous for making dodgy simulations (WTC 7 anyone!) and use that to draw a conclusion, even though there is plenty of evidence to show that temperatures were higher than 900c.
And there isn't a single piece of evidence to support the notion that it came from the concrete, it's nothing more than an assumption. :lol:
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Hi Christine, I'd never heard of you before until I read Greenings paper.
First, I would like to say a huge thank you for work you did as a first responder. :applaud And also thank you for supplying Greening with a sample of the dust that he used in his analysis.
Have you ever given an account of what you saw on that day and is there a link to it on the internet?
Thanks
Stundie
The dust analysis from my clothing was JUST done and I'm here to answer questions and confront knuckle dragger's statements.
My 9/11
It was 8:45 a.m. on a beautiful cloudless day and I was commuting as usual, by this time on the Brooklyn Bridge in my car, waiting in traffic. The first plane hit and I looked up to see the devastation. My first reaction was to cry..... not quietly.... I bawled as I sat alone in my car. All I could think about was those poor people and how hurt and frightened they must be now, and how much I wanted to take away their hurt and comfort them.
My job in the courts is just two blocks north of the bridge so I got to my job as fast as I could, parked, and immediately went up to administration to ask if I could lend a hand. I was told to stay put until more was known, so I went back down and got my usual two large cups of coffee (coffee and cigarettes - the breakfast of champions). By the time I arrived back at my office the second plane had hit. I was no sooner at my desk than the fire alarm sounded. I’m the supervisor in an office with over twenty people and am responsible for them so I just told them “get your stuff and get out NOW!’. I stayed until they all had gone, and followed them then outside. Turns out the alarm was the building’s way of evacuation. No one knew what to do once we got outside. Most started walking uptown. I went to my car, stowed my cigs inside (a thing which still amazes me) and I, in my blue summer dress and white pump shoes, sunglasses and shield went to the Twin Towers.
My route brought me to right in front of St. Paul’s Church on the corner of Broadway and Fulton Street, just one block from the north tower of the World Trade Center. I rounded the corner and began the short walk down the street and halfway there the most amazing thing happened. I felt a hand push me back on my left shoulder, but there was no one there. I spun around and took a few steps towards the direction I had come from, then thought “what am I doing?” and spun around again, heading back for the site. Again I felt like I was pushed back and again, I circled. It was the weirdest thing. I remembered then passing a NYPD mobile command center that had been hastily set up on the corner of Broadway and Park Row, a short distance from where I was. I doubled back, figuring the best thing to do was go there and ask where I was needed. It made sense at the time. With no one to tell me where to go or what to do it was up to me. A thing which could work either for, or against me, and I knew it.
Once at the NYPD command center I showed my identification and stated that I had come from the courts looking to help. I was then positioned back in front of St. Paul’s and told to aid in the evacuation of persons from the Trade Center site and that was where I went, and stayed.
On my corner was an FBI officer, two NYPD officers and me, a NY State officer by virtue of being a Senior Court Clerk in Manhattan Family Court. I took up position on the northwest corner, keeping people from walking directly in front of the church, and instead having them go across Broadway to a building which happened to have a substantial overhang over the sidewalk, supported by a series of large columns. The first floor inside the overhang had the croissant shop Au Bon Pain and a bank. I don’t recall if any other store was there.
As people were being shown the way by our mixed group of officers one of New York’s Finest leaned to me and said “They just got the Pentagon”. Inside I shivered, but outside I just nodded my head, sure that this now was total war, and in my head I simply prepared for the worst. I hadn’t a clue with whom we were at war with. I thought of prophecies of Armageddon from the Bible and of the predictions of psychics, who predicted New York would fall into the sea from some cataclysmic event, and I figured this was it.
It was 8:45 a.m. on a beautiful cloudless day and I was commuting as usual, by this time on the Brooklyn Bridge in my car, waiting in traffic. The first plane hit and I looked up to see the devastation. My first reaction was to cry..... not quietly.... I bawled as I sat alone in my car. All I could think about was those poor people and how hurt and frightened they must be now, and how much I wanted to take away their hurt and comfort them.
My job in the courts is just two blocks north of the bridge so I got to my job as fast as I could, parked, and immediately went up to administration to ask if I could lend a hand. I was told to stay put until more was known, so I went back down and got my usual two large cups of coffee (coffee and cigarettes - the breakfast of champions). By the time I arrived back at my office the second plane had hit. I was no sooner at my desk than the fire alarm sounded. I’m the supervisor in an office with over twenty people and am responsible for them so I just told them “get your stuff and get out NOW!’. I stayed until they all had gone, and followed them then outside. Turns out the alarm was the building’s way of evacuation. No one knew what to do once we got outside. Most started walking uptown. I went to my car, stowed my cigs inside (a thing which still amazes me) and I, in my blue summer dress and white pump shoes, sunglasses and shield went to the Twin Towers.
My route brought me to right in front of St. Paul’s Church on the corner of Broadway and Fulton Street, just one block from the north tower of the World Trade Center. I rounded the corner and began the short walk down the street and halfway there the most amazing thing happened. I felt a hand push me back on my left shoulder, but there was no one there. I spun around and took a few steps towards the direction I had come from, then thought “what am I doing?” and spun around again, heading back for the site. Again I felt like I was pushed back and again, I circled. It was the weirdest thing. I remembered then passing a NYPD mobile command center that had been hastily set up on the corner of Broadway and Park Row, a short distance from where I was. I doubled back, figuring the best thing to do was go there and ask where I was needed. It made sense at the time. With no one to tell me where to go or what to do it was up to me. A thing which could work either for, or against me, and I knew it.
Once at the NYPD command center I showed my identification and stated that I had come from the courts looking to help. I was then positioned back in front of St. Paul’s and told to aid in the evacuation of persons from the Trade Center site and that was where I went, and stayed.
On my corner was an FBI officer, two NYPD officers and me, a NY State officer by virtue of being a Senior Court Clerk in Manhattan Family Court. I took up position on the northwest corner, keeping people from walking directly in front of the church, and instead having them go across Broadway to a building which happened to have a substantial overhang over the sidewalk, supported by a series of large columns. The first floor inside the overhang had the croissant shop Au Bon Pain and a bank. I don’t recall if any other store was there.
As people were being shown the way by our mixed group of officers one of New York’s Finest leaned to me and said “They just got the Pentagon”. Inside I shivered, but outside I just nodded my head, sure that this now was total war, and in my head I simply prepared for the worst. I hadn’t a clue with whom we were at war with. I thought of prophecies of Armageddon from the Bible and of the predictions of psychics, who predicted New York would fall into the sea from some cataclysmic event, and I figured this was it.
Then I heard the loudest silence I ever heard. I looked down Broadway and coming rolling up toward me was the biggest blackest cloud of death I had ever seen in my life. Things were swirling in it, around it, through it. I thought to myself “Here comes death and this is what it looks like”. I looked down Fulton, and death was rolling up it as well, like a demonic wave of doom, focused on two approaching sides upon our corner. The cloud was several stories high. I started to yell to the civilians on the street, but couldn’t hear my own voice. That surprised me, for my yells can be very loud, and here it was as if nothing. I began to jump up and down, pointing with two flailing arms, motioning to the hundreds of people coming up Fulton and down Broadway to run. I was yelling for them to run under the building’s overhang.... it honestly didn’t occur to me to send them INTO the building. Over and over I screamed “Get under the building!!” I decided I would stay on my doomed corner until either wave of death hit, and then I would duck behind a police van which happened to be parked on the northeast corner nearby. I remember screaming so loud I was hurting my throat, pointing, jumping, terrified folks running past me as fast as they could. I remember a cameraman there and I’ve seen his footage on the news. You never do hear my voice, or see me, except when the cloud hit you can see a pair of white pumps under a police van’s bumper.
(Recently, a second video from that corner surfaced and I could hear myself screaming, but it just sounded like a crazy person, and you couldn't tell I was actually speaking words.)
Then, the cloud hit us hard.
When the cloud hit, most of the people had not only made it under the overhang, but had run into the bank nearby. I’m glad I was able to steer them to a safe place at least.......
The swirling black cloud descended lethally upon us with a monsoon of debris and the blackest black I’ve ever seen. Even a moonless night offered no comparison, nor did an unlit room at night. The total darkness was impenetrable. I put my hand in front of my face and I could see nothing. I figured then a nuclear weapon had been detonated on the south end of Manhattan.. No one ever said or suggested the towers might fall and it wasn’t even a consideration. Everyone was thinking we were nuked.
Sharing that police van’s bumper with me was one of the few civilians left outside, and the cops were still on the corner as well. I don’t know what happened to the FBI officer. One of the cops was yelling direction to all who were still outside. “Breathe through your clothes, BREATHE THROUGH YOUR CLOTHES” he would say over and over again. I tried it both ways and breathing either way pretty much sucked. My lungs were so incredibly filled with crap it seemed impossible to breathe normally and it was all I could do to set up a rhythm. Fight for air and breathe, breathe, spit debris out.. breathe, breathe, spit..... on and on, over and over, and I had to fight for each and every one. I was still wearing my sunglasses and because of that my eyes were spared from most of the debris kicking around. I kept opening them to check out the intensity of the darkness.... but it stayed black and absolute for quite a while, the only sound the cop coaching our breathing... and how he managed to breathe and still yell to us I’ll never know.
Then there was a new sound, in the back ground, beeps repeating over and over again. I learned later on from a news show that those beeps were from the firemen rendered immobile. The beeps were a personal alarm system each man wore to notify others of his location and the fact that he was immobile for period of time as immobility triggers the alarm. The rest of it sounded like it does on a winters night after a huge snow, where there’s so much silence.
Again and again I opened my eyes to test and finally...... FINALLY..... I could begin to see... just a little bit.... I think I hooted, and told the man next to me in between spits that it just couldn’t be nuclear.. One we still had skin and two... we could see.......... and nuclear night is supposed to last for six months.
Thinking back on it that seems kinda silly, but it’s an honest accounting of my thought processes at that time.
(Recently, a second video from that corner surfaced and I could hear myself screaming, but it just sounded like a crazy person, and you couldn't tell I was actually speaking words.)
Then, the cloud hit us hard.
When the cloud hit, most of the people had not only made it under the overhang, but had run into the bank nearby. I’m glad I was able to steer them to a safe place at least.......
The swirling black cloud descended lethally upon us with a monsoon of debris and the blackest black I’ve ever seen. Even a moonless night offered no comparison, nor did an unlit room at night. The total darkness was impenetrable. I put my hand in front of my face and I could see nothing. I figured then a nuclear weapon had been detonated on the south end of Manhattan.. No one ever said or suggested the towers might fall and it wasn’t even a consideration. Everyone was thinking we were nuked.
Sharing that police van’s bumper with me was one of the few civilians left outside, and the cops were still on the corner as well. I don’t know what happened to the FBI officer. One of the cops was yelling direction to all who were still outside. “Breathe through your clothes, BREATHE THROUGH YOUR CLOTHES” he would say over and over again. I tried it both ways and breathing either way pretty much sucked. My lungs were so incredibly filled with crap it seemed impossible to breathe normally and it was all I could do to set up a rhythm. Fight for air and breathe, breathe, spit debris out.. breathe, breathe, spit..... on and on, over and over, and I had to fight for each and every one. I was still wearing my sunglasses and because of that my eyes were spared from most of the debris kicking around. I kept opening them to check out the intensity of the darkness.... but it stayed black and absolute for quite a while, the only sound the cop coaching our breathing... and how he managed to breathe and still yell to us I’ll never know.
Then there was a new sound, in the back ground, beeps repeating over and over again. I learned later on from a news show that those beeps were from the firemen rendered immobile. The beeps were a personal alarm system each man wore to notify others of his location and the fact that he was immobile for period of time as immobility triggers the alarm. The rest of it sounded like it does on a winters night after a huge snow, where there’s so much silence.
Again and again I opened my eyes to test and finally...... FINALLY..... I could begin to see... just a little bit.... I think I hooted, and told the man next to me in between spits that it just couldn’t be nuclear.. One we still had skin and two... we could see.......... and nuclear night is supposed to last for six months.
Thinking back on it that seems kinda silly, but it’s an honest accounting of my thought processes at that time.
Slowly, very slowly, daytime returned and ashen figures began their rise up from the blizzard of dust and debris. I stood and asked the man next to me if he was alright. I think I surprised him and he looked at me, a fellow ash figure. He said he was okay, then asked how I was. I answered that I was okay. That I’m always okay. There was wreckage and parts of things everywhere, and we were smothered in it. Somehow of the ten or so people left outside on my corner no one had died. I made my way into the Au Bon Pain where the clerks were tossing bottles of water to me and the others there.
gamolon
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No the paper does NOT claim that the iron particles came from the concrete.
The dust/debris sample was separated into two factions using a magnet; magnetic and non-magnetic
The non-magnetic particles were classified as two morphologies; amorphous and spherical
The non-magnetic, amorphous particles were said to have been from the debris created by the crushed concrete and/or wallboard. The non-magnetic, spherical particles were said to have come from/contained in the fly ash used in the concrete of the towers
The magnetic, spherical particles (the iron particles you mention above) are suggested to have come from on-site cutting and grinding during the construction NOT from the concrete like you incorrectly stated above
Thoreau72
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OK, the dust from 15 years ago was just analyzed by Greening, and I did read your other posts, your narrative from that day. Different details from different individuals in different locations, but I'm reminded of the narrative of Willy Rodriguez and the guy who told his story from WTC7 but is now dead.
Quite by accident I once met a man, in about 2006 who was in the South Tower when it all happened. Fascinating accounts for sure. He was former Navy, and then working for AT&T and was in the building trying to fix some phone issues. He was pissed because after the building hit, they would not let him and his team leave the building. It collapsed, he was injured and in the hospital for some weeks, but survived.
As I've told Mike here, I have no problem with Greening's analysis of your clothing. But whatever his conclusion might be, it changes precious little, nothing at all, from my POV. I've always been neutral on whether or not thermite was used. Some say it was, others say it wasn't. I'm agnostic on that relatively insignificant point.
Whether it was or not does not change what happened at Shanksville or the Pentagon. It does not change the fact that molten iron was present for about 90 days at the site, it does not change Matt Tartaglia's testimony or death from radiation sickness, and it does not change the fact that the pictures Kurt Sonnenfeld took for FEMA reveal damage grossly inconsistent with the claim advanced by NIST.
So, whether there was thermite used or not doesn't matter to me. The larger point is that the entire official narrative is false, contradicted by all the facts and evidence.
gamolon
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Funny how you still push this garbage even after being shown how wrong you are about it.
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It makes one wonder why he keeps doing it.
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It is funny and sad. Especially when AE911T refuted Prager's work and T72 admits he still sends AE911T money to search for the "truth".
As long as their are those that believe sites like Veterans Today or Global Search, the conspiracies will continue.
Huge pain in the ass but I posted my story in a singular place. With the post allowance only being 5000 characters and my story having 55000+ characters it was a huge pain.
https://www.debatepolitics.com/conspiracy-theories/294097-my-9-11-story-all-one-place.html
https://www.debatepolitics.com/conspiracy-theories/294097-my-9-11-story-all-one-place.html
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Thank you.
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Actually my bad, its because I have been discussing this paper on another forum with others who claimed it was grinding and cutting trapped in wet concrete.
However, it makes no analysis or provides no evidence they that these iron spheres came from the fly-ash in the concrete or from cuting or grinding.
It is assumed and it's an assumption based on the NIST fire simulation of 900c and that the temperatures of the fires were not hot enough to create the microspheres.
Even though there is plenty of evidence to suggest the fires were hotter.
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Thank you Chris S.
I've had a quick look but I'll read through a little more and I might have a few questions for you.
gamolon
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Plenty of evidence that the fires were hot enough to create iron microspheres?
gamolon
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Which forum?
gamolon
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Why would they provide evidence that the iron-rich spheres came from fly ash? They don't make that claim from what I can see. They suggested the iron-rich spheres came from the cutting and grinding of steel. Are you saying that's not a possibility?
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No, I said there is plenty of evidence to suggest the temperature was higher than the 900c that the NIST got through their simulation. There is evidence to suggest it was hot enough to create iron microspheres, but I wouldn't say the words plenty.
The911Forum.
I didn't say that though did I?? lol
What I said was...."However, it makes no analysis or provides no evidence they that these iron spheres came from the fly-ash in the concrete or from cuting or grinding."
When did I define the Iron-Rich/Poor?? I didn't.....did ! :roll:
I know you are desperate to shift focus away from the assumptions that are made in Greenings paper but misquoting me and trying to catch me out with your "Gotcha!" isn't going to work.
In other words, he provides no evidence that the iron poor spheres come from fly-ash and doesn't even establish whether the concrete at WTC even had fly ash and he provides no evidence that the iron rich spheres came from grinding/cutting of the steel.
And I didn't say that he made that claim either.
Yes, of course its a possibility, but without providing any evidence or calculations that cutting/grinding of iron can produce the levels he found within the dust, let alone the much higher levels that RJ Lee found.
The paper is jumping to conclusions and it's a god of gaps.
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What's characteristic about the Diversion Crowd is the total absence of any evidence/proof. It's always the same schtick, a chorus of the same old science deniers in a mutual admiration jerkle cirque.