Americans! Don't be naive and manipulated![W:17]

Tigerace117 said:

Judging from how you support war criminals and terrorists across the globe, I'd say you are jealous of groups like the Taliban.

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Tigerace117 said:

No one shoud[sic] blindly support brutal dictatorships and terrorist networks.

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camlok said:

The Taliban were the folks that the US wined and dined in the US, taking them on tours, like to, what's the name of that desecrated mountain that has the image of four US war criminals carved into it? What an ugly abomination! Mother Nature screams in protest.

Who was/were the guys court martialed for gook hockey?

No one should consciously choose to be a war criminal and a terrorist.



Yet you do all the time. And you are planning on doing it officially.

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Kurmugeon said:

I have only a few doubts that the NSA REPORT was leaked by this person to the press.

I have very strong suspicious it was done by manipulation of the leaker by people around her, who were/are working for the NSA and the Deep State. She was USED!

Just because this REPORT was marked "Classified", and leaked, when it should not have been....

Does NOT mean that the content of the REPORT is neccessarily TRUE and Accurrate!

We, the American People, may be being manipulated into believing that the Contents of the report are VALID, simply because it was leaked!


I worked in the Government producing reports for awhile... and I can assure you!:


Being in a Report, being marked classified, and being Leaked .... and being full, accurate, and validated are not always the same thing!

Do NOT assume, just because the NSA report was classified and leaked, that the contents of the Report are valid!

Remember who is writing that report!

I have great doubts about the veriacity of the claims made in the report... and ANYONE in the organization can write a report that claims whatever... No PROOF needed!



Do the Claims being made in that report make sense and seem crediable to your gut instinct about what the Russians could do, and if they could do such, what would they do with that power?!!!

Does the claims of the Report, setting aside the source and marking, make SENSE!?


If the Russian had such power, how would they have used it in 2016?

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Tigerace117 said:

Ah, and yet again your historical ignorance is showing. Unsurprisingly, you've confused the Taliban and the Mujahideen. Two completely different organizations--- but, once again, it's clear you didn't know that.

You know, I looked up your "gook hockey" claim and lo and behold, it seems that all the sources describe accounts by a single person, a random medic. Which, of course, raises a few eyebrows.

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Kill Anything That Moves

Like many Americans, my real political education began with my opposition to the Vietnam War in the early 1960s, progressing from readings to joining anti-war groups to public demonstrations, draft board sit-ins and so on. But even all the reading and involvement and civil disobedience did not prepare me for what Nick Turse has discovered and laid out in his new book, Kill Anything That Moves (Holt 2013.) The title phrase comes from actual testimony Turse found, specifically that of medic Jamie Henry, who, referring to a search-and-destroy operation in the Tet counteroffensive, quoted what his company captain, Donald Reh, told Lieutenant Johnny Mack when the latter asked Reh what to do with the 19 civilians his troops had rounded up:

“The Captain asked him if he remembered the Op [operations] Order that had come down from higher that morning which was to kill anything that moves. The Captain repeated the order. He said that higher said to kill anything that moves.”(126)
The order was, of course, followed (about which more later.) This is the pattern that Turse found repeated everywhere in the war. Gooks or slopes or slants (all racist names for Vietnamese) were not people; they were, no matter how they appeared outwardly, all the enemy, all VC or Vietcong. If they remained in a village instead of fleeing to a refugee camp, and especially if they tried to run from soldiers, they were to be killed. Period. The statistics Turse cites at the outset confirm this: the Vietnam government itself estimated 2 million civilians dead. If multiplied by Gunter Loewy’s multiplier of 2.65 wounded for every one killed, that means 5.3 million civilians wounded, for a total of 7.3 million casualties out of a population of 19 million. The United States tried and still tries to call such civilian casualties “collateral damage,” as if they were accidental. Turse disagrees, and writes a massively documented book to prove that it was U.S. policy to kill civilians, and that such intentional killing constituted massive war crimes.

The main documents Turse uses to make his case came from an accidental find at the National Archives, the files of the Vietnam War Crimes Working Group (activists never heard of such a group at the time.) This was a group the Pentagon formed in the aftermath of the inflammatory publicity about the My Lai massacre (500 civilians murdered), hoping to prevent further such incidents, or at least pretend that it was working to prevent them. The files include over 300 allegations of “massacres, murders, rapes, torture, assaults, mutilations and other atrocities substantiated by army investigators, including 500 allegations that weren’t proven at the time.” Turse also interviewed numerous whistleblowers, like Jamie Henry, and many Vietnamese victims of atrocities who managed to survive, most of them maimed either physically or spiritually. He ends up with a story of massacre after massacre, with innocent civilians being bombed from high-flying B-52 bombers, or strafed by napalm spewing jets or blasted by helicopters or pounded by huge naval guns firing shells as big as a Volkswagen or simply gunned down by American soldiers following their orders to “kill anything that moves.”

Splinters-Splinters: Kill Anything That Moves

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camlok said:

That's what propaganda has done to you, turned you into another of the millions of US killing machines.

It's so easy to find these US war crimes because they are so damn prevalent.

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Tigerace117 said:

No, it's so "easy" because you are beyond gullible and thus believe anything anyone tells you as long as it's anti American.

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And this is the burden of Turse’s book: the massacre of an entire country was not an accident; rather, it was the product of a theory of war that sociologist James William Gibson calls “technowar”—a philosophy best embodied in the person of U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara. Technowar combined “American technological and economic prowess with sophisticated managerial capacities” to produce a war machine “functioning as smoothly and predictably as an assembly line.” One of the products of that ‘assembly line’ approach was to imagine a “crossover point”—the moment when American soldiers would be killing more enemies than their Vietnamese opponents could replace—an idea that would lead directly to the huge emphasis on “body count,” the number of killed Vietnamese. Also related was the notion that since the United States was fighting a guerilla war against an enemy that could easily melt back into its jungle villages, the solution was to deprive the guerillas of their civilian and jungle cover. How? Simple: either kill or force most villagers to move into refugee camps or cities (Saigon tripled in size during the war), and reduce their tropical homeland to desert by using napalm and white phosphorus and toxic defoliants like Agent Orange that would not only get rid of the jungle cover but also destroy the lush paddy fields of rice that had made Vietnam before the war a net exporter of rice, and soon made it a net importer.

Splinters-Splinters: Kill Anything That Moves

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Other troop toys included Vietnamese ears strung around soldiers’ necks, and “kill albums”— photo albums kept by troops showing pictures of severed heads, or “lots of heads, arranged in a row, with a burning cigarette in each of the mouths, eyes open”(162).

Splinters-Splinters: Kill Anything That Moves

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camlok said:

Tens of millions of innocents and some Americans want more more more.

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camlok said:

You believe everything pro American even though there are myriad scholars who describe using actual research that it is all a big lie. A "nation" at war for +90% of its years as a terrorist/war criminal nation can be good.

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Tigerace117 said:

You using the exact same source again doesn't help your assertation

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camlok said:

The same source catalogs myriad US war crimes which illustrates how the US in all its myriad illegal invasions was never attempting to free the oppressed, it was always seeking to oppress the free and those who wanted to be free.

mike liked your post because he too denies US war crimes and US terrorism.

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Tigerace117 said:

it holds up groups like the Khmer Rouge and Saddam's Republican Guard as "heroes"?

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Supporting Pol Pot

excerpted from the book

Rogue State

A Guide to the World's Only Superpower

by William Blum

Common Courage Press, 2000


The Killing Fields...the borders sealed, the cities emptied at gunpoint, a forced march to the countryside...being a professional, knowing a foreign language, wearing eyeglasses, almost anything, might be cause enough for persecution, execution...or the overwork will kill you, or a beating, or the hunger, or disease. For whatever reason: shortage of food, creation of an agrarian society impervious to the economic world order, internal party power, security...well over a million dead at the hands of the Cambodian Communist Party, the Khmer Rouge, under Pol Pot, after ousting the US-supported regime of Lon Nol...the world is horrified, comparisons to the Nazi genocide mushroom, "worse than Hitler" is Pol Pot...

Four years later, January 1979, Vietnam-responding to years of attacks by the Khmer Rouge against ethnic Vietnamese in Cambodia and cross-border raids into Vietnam itself-invaded what was now called Kampuchea, overthrew Pol Pot's government, and installed a government friendly to Vietnam. The Khmer Rouge forces retreated to the western end of Cambodia, by the border with Thailand, and later some set up camp in Thailand itself.

Washington's reaction was not any kind of elation that the Cambodian nightmare had come to an end, but rather undisguised displeasure that the hated Vietnamese were in control and credited with ousting the terrible Khmer Rouge. For years afterwards, the United States condemned Vietnam's actions as "illegal". A lingering bitterness by American cold warriors against the small nation which monumental US power could not defeat appears to be the only explanation for this attitude. Humiliation runs deep, particularly when you're the world's only superpower.

Thus it was that an American policy took root-to provide the Khmer Rouge with food, financial aid and military aid beginning soon after their ouster. The aim, in conjunction with China and long-time American client state, Thailand, was to restore Pol Pot's troops to military capability as the only force which could make the Vietnamese withdraw their army, leading to the overthrow of the Cambodian government.


Supporting Pol Pot

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camlok said:

The same source catalogs myriad US war crimes which illustrates how the US in all its myriad illegal invasions was never attempting to free the oppressed, it was always seeking to oppress the free and those who wanted to be free.

mike liked your post because he too denies US war crimes and US terrorism.

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camlok said:

These were heroes of the USA. These both were heavily supported, financially and politically by the USA.

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Tigerace117 said:

William Blum is yet another individual who has made a career out of pan.

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camlok said:

William Blum has more integrity in his nail clippings than many Americans have in their combined mass. Read Blum and read one of your war mongering rants.

mike, mike, pay attention!

Here are some more scholars from Yale who have cataloged the depravity of the USA in its saturation bombing of Cambodia.

Bombs Over Cambodia
New information reveals that Cambodia was bombed far more heavily
during the Vietnam War than previously believed—and that the bombing began
not under Richard Nixon, but under Lyndon Johnson
story byTaylor Owen and Ben Kiernan
mapping byTaylor Owen

...

"The still-incomplete database (it has several “dark” periods) reveals that
from October 4, 1965, to August 15, 1973, the United States dropped far
more ordnance on Cambodia than was previously believed: 2,756,941
tons’ worth, dropped in 230,516 sorties on 113,716 sites. Just over 10 percent
of this bombing was indiscriminate, with 3,580 of the sites listed as
having “unknown” targets and another 8,238 sites having no target listed
at all. The database also shows that the bombing began four years earlier
than is widely believed—not under Nixon, but under Lyndon Johnson.
The impact of this bombing, the subject of much debate for the past
three decades, is now clearer than ever. Civilian casualties in Cambodia
drove an enraged populace into the arms of an insurgency that
had enjoyed relatively little support until the bombing began, setting
in motion the expansion of the Vietnam War deeper into Cambodia, a
coup d’état in 1970, the rapid rise of the Khmer Rouge, and ultimately
the Cambodian genocide."

http://gsp.yale.edu/sites/default/files/walrus_cambodiabombing_oct06.pdf

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