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What if Pres. Obama did wiretap Trump?

By that I assume you mean that Obama might have personally hired watergate-like "plumbers" to break into Trump Tower and install surveillance equipment? You're right. This is a CT!

If Trump had any real evidence that he was being surveilled, either legally or illegally, we'd already be looking at it.

Trump took the reputation of this nation down several notches with his childish and insane twitter rant last Saturday.

I agree our President shouldn't be using twitter once he took the oath, but on the other hand he has almost every television channel which is owned & operated by the DNC spewing out lies & hatred towards him without any other way of countering the lies.
I don't agree with him doing, but I'm just saying I understand why he does.

As far as this notion that our President would lie about it, seems biased against him more than it does with truth. He clearly wouldn't of stated it had he not of had a security briefing revealing it, but if he did & if its still TS then he really messed up by releasing that information to the public.
 
Any way you look at it, I think we can all agree that the horrible and wasteful agency that the DNC created
CIA
should be eliminated, and the tax dollars & liberty returned to the AMerican people, with a reminder that the communist DNC is trying to rule over us all with an iron fist!
 
I'm putting this in CT because as of right now it's purely theoretical:
Let's say that tomorrow, absolute proof positive came out that Obama wire-tapped Trump. We're talking about physical evidence, multiple witnesses and a note saying "Wire tap Trump and send me everything. - Barack Hussein Obama" written in his own blood. In this scenario, what should happen to former Pres. Obama?

Nothing at all. As he said early in his term, we must look forward, not behind.
 
I agree our President shouldn't be using twitter once he took the oath, but on the other hand he has almost every television channel which is owned & operated by the DNC spewing out lies & hatred towards him without any other way of countering the lies.
I don't agree with him doing, but I'm just saying I understand why he does.

As far as this notion that our President would lie about it, seems biased against him more than it does with truth. He clearly
wouldn't of stated it had he not of had a security briefing revealing it, but if he did & if its still TS then he really messed up by releasing that information to the public.

"He clearly wouldn't have stated it if he had not had a security briefing revealing it." Are you serious or did I misinterpret your comment? No offense intended, but have you heard of reports on Trump & truth, starting with Trump University and proceeding to 3 million illegal votes, all amazingly for Hillary? I may be going out on a limb here, but Trump seems to only pass truth in the hallway every once in a while. He is entertaining, I admit, but a grown up does not tweet an accusation of a serious crime by a former president. Even more entertaining are comments by his spokespersons, who resemble the guys with the brooms and shovels following the elephants in the parade.
 
I'm putting this in CT because as of right now it's purely theoretical:
Let's say that tomorrow, absolute proof positive came out that Obama wire-tapped Trump. We're talking about physical evidence, multiple witnesses and a note saying "Wire tap Trump and send me everything. - Barack Hussein Obama" written in his own blood. In this scenario, what should happen to former Pres. Obama?

Prosecute, if found guilty, throw him in jail.
 
Judge Napolitano explained the reason, that the law allows the President to do certain things on a temporary basis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act

There is plenty of wiggle room for Obama to consider communication with Russians as a threat to the US. He didn't even need a warrant, and this talk about Obama committing a felony by other elected official is pure bunk. It's not a felony. Now there could have been other associated reasons for the "wiretap" that aren't directly tied to Trump. This could make it difficult to publicize the particulars. But given the now NSA mess with Snowden, there's no doubt it could have been done. And Obama would not have been committing a felony.

You're probably correct. George Bush admitted on TV to Congress that he had violated FISA. In this day of the Unitary Executive, why should Barack obey the law?
 
faithful_servant said:
I'm putting this in CT because as of right now it's purely theoretical:
Let's say that tomorrow, absolute proof positive came out that Obama wire-tapped Trump. We're talking about physical evidence, multiple witnesses and a note saying "Wire tap Trump and send me everything. - Barack Hussein Obama" written in his own blood. In this scenario, what should happen to former Pres. Obama?

As others have said, he should be tried, and if convicted, sentenced. And he should serve that sentence, whatever it is.
 
I'm putting this in CT because as of right now it's purely theoretical:
Let's say that tomorrow, absolute proof positive came out that Obama wire-tapped Trump. We're talking about physical evidence, multiple witnesses and a note saying "Wire tap Trump and send me everything. - Barack Hussein Obama" written in his own blood. In this scenario, what should happen to former Pres. Obama?

If laws were clearly broken there should be consequences as specified by law no matter who did it. But IMO I suspect that even in the face of absolute proof nothing would happen. The Democrats and other Obama supporters would argue that it was necessary and justified no matter what the evidence showed. The GOP would be too timid as usual to expend political capital pushing it as it would be portrayed by Obama supporters, including the MSM, as politically/partisan motivated.

There would be a flurry of mentions in the media and hundreds upon hundreds of threads about it on message board and comments in social media, but interest would wane quickly and little or nothing would come of it.
 
Even if the evidence is as strong as this:



Disclaimer: Some of our friends here at DP may not have ordered or installed my "insert sense of humor" software yet, so be prepared.
 
By that I assume you mean that Obama might have personally hired watergate-like "plumbers" to break into Trump Tower and install surveillance equipment? You're right. This is a CT!

If Trump had any real evidence that he was being surveilled, either legally or illegally, we'd already be looking at it.

Trump took the reputation of this nation down several notches with his childish and insane twitter rant last Saturday.

Other than in the NYT and other media it was reported that Obama's admin tried in July, I think it was, to get a FISA warrant, were denied, and then were successful in a second on later that year.

If your entire objection is based that 'Obama's admin' rather than 'Obama' was tweeted, that pretty weak sauce.

Given the history of Obama's admin's wiretapping, it certainly falls well within its character.

It is not unfounded that former President Obama would wire tap President Trump during the election process. This is because he has done this before. Here is a list of individuals who were wire tapped by the Obama Administration.
WikiLeaks released the following list on February 23rd (see link here) of Obama Administration wire taps:
* The US National Security Agency bugged a private climate change strategy meeting; between UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon and German Chancellor Angela Merkel in Berlin;
* Obama bugged Chief of Staff of UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) for long term interception targetting his Swiss phone;
* Obama singled out the Director of the Rules Division of the World Trade Organisation (WTO), Johann Human, and targetted his Swiss phone for long term interception;
* Obama stole sensitive Italian diplomatic cables detailing how Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu implored Italy’s Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi to help patch up his relationship with US President Barack Obama, who was refusing to talk to Netanyahu;
* Obama intercepted top EU and Japanese trade ministers discussing their secret strategy and red lines to stop the US “extort[ing]” them at the WTO Doha arounds (the talks subsequently collapsed);
* Obama explicitly targeted five other top EU economic officials for long term interception, including their French, Austrian and Belgium phone numbers;
* Obama explicitly targetted the phones of Italy’s ambassador to NATO and other top Italian officials for long term interception; and
* Obama intercepted details of a critical private meeting between then French president Nicolas Sarkozy, Merkel and Berluscon, where the latter was told the Italian banking system was ready to “pop like a cork”.
In addition to the above list we also know now that Obama wire tapped various individuals in the US media that were reporting information not flattering to the Obama Administration. It is widely known that Obama’s Justice Department targeted journalists with wiretaps in 2013:
* In 2013 the liberal Washington Post expressed outrage after the revelation that the Justice Department had investigated the newsgathering activities of a Fox News reporter as a potential crime in a probe of classified leaks. The reporter, Fox News’ James Rosen and his family, were part of an investigation into government officials anonymously leaking information to journalists. Rosen was not charged but his movements and actions were tracked.
* Also in 2013, members of the Associated Press were also a target of the surveillance. The ultra liberal New Yorker even noted that “In moderate and liberal circles, at least, the phone-records scandal, partly because it involves the dear old A.P. and partly because it raises anew the specter of Big Brother, may well present the most serious threat to Obama’s reputation.”
* Reporter Sharyl Attkisson said in 2014 that her personal computer and CBS laptop were hacked after she began filing stories about Benghazi that were unflattering to the Obama administration. A source who checked her laptop said the hacker used spyware “proprietary to a government agency,” according to an article in the New York Post.
Update – WikiLeaks tweeted overnight that the Obama Administration spied on their journalists as well:

Here's the List: More Than a Dozen Proven Victims of Obama's Many Wiretaps
 
Other than in the NYT and other media it was reported that Obama's admin tried in July, I think it was, to get a FISA warrant, were denied, and then were successful in a second on later that year.

If your entire objection is based that 'Obama's admin' rather than 'Obama' was tweeted, that pretty weak sauce.

Given the history of Obama's admin's wiretapping, it certainly falls well within its character.

Greetings, Erik. :2wave:

I wasn't even aware of some of those wiretappings that did take place and I'm on a political site! My point is how on earth anyone could think that the average guy or gal on the street might be expected to know about the wiretappings going on, let alone the other things that are occurring in DC. The administration isn't going to announce it, the MSM is probably not even going to cover it when they do know about it, until it becomes so talked about by those who do know and leak it, that then the explanation will either be "it's being investigated," or "it's just not what you think it is so don't believe what you hear, since it's not true!" That allows the public - who are already concerned with just trying to make ends meet on not enough money to pay their bills - one less problem to worry about.

It appears that the Trump voters had already passed that point, though, and decided to vote for the guy who promised to change things, and enough of them did vote for him that he is now POTUS, and is keeping his campaign promises, which brings us up to date on what's happening in politics today. :duel Is there anyone who is enjoying watching this travesty unfold? :inandout:
 
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Greetings, Polgara. :2wave:

Greetings, Erik. :2wave:

I wasn't even aware of some of those posted, and I'm on a political site! My point is how on earth anyone could think that the average guy or gal on the street might be expected to know about the wiretapping going on, let alone the other things that are occurring in DC. The administration isn't going to announce it, the MSM is probably not even going to cover it when they do know about it, until it becomes so talked about by those who do know and leak it, then the explanation will either be "it's being investigated," or "it's just not what you think it is so don't believe what you hear, since it's not true!" That allows the public - who are already concerned with just trying to make ends meet on not enough money to pay their bills - one less problem to worry about.

A good point you raise there. From my view it's the editorial bias of the lame stream media. They'd much rather bitch about Russians and Trump, rather than holding their favored president accountable for his EOs and his administration's actions.

I recall, and yearn, for the by gone days when news casters weren't measured by ratings, and instead were concerned and focused on news reports that informed, rather than the news reports that we get now, which are to influence. Yearn for the bygone days when there were actual journalists presenting the news, rather than news commentators which spun off reporting their own favored views as if they were facts.

In my view, the news media has utterly failed to fulfill their part of the social contract, holding those in authority accountable, speaking truth to power (doesn't count if it's only one party), and informing the electorate (also a fail on their part).

An old joke: What do you call all journalists drowned in a river? Solving 1/3 the problem, the politicians lawyers need to follow.

It appears that the Trump voters had already passed that point, though, and decided to vote for the guy who promised to change things, and enough of them did vote for him that he is now POTUS, and is keeping his campaign promises, which brings us up to date on what's happening in politics today. :duel Is there anyone who is enjoying watching this travesty unfold? :inandout:

It will be all for naught if Trump doesn't succeed in what he calls 'draining the swap'. By this, to me anyway, I take it as purging the partisan bureaucracy as well as reducing the bureaucracy over all (hell, it's accumulated a great deal of fat over the years, and that's why it's so horrendously expensive), as well as returning a great deal more power back to the states, where it belongs. Sure, the federal bureaucracy is going to fight him tooth and nail in doing that, but really, I think it needs to be done, and if there's a president that's going to be able to accomplish this, Trump would be the only one that I can think of, and I think the electorate recognized this, and elected him, regardless of his missteps, his sometimes less than elegant and PC self expression.

It raises the question as to what Trump misstep would impact his popular support in the electorate? Not sure I want to find out or live through it.
 
Greetings, Polgara. :2wave:



A good point you raise there. From my view it's the editorial bias of the lame stream media. They'd much rather bitch about Russians and Trump, rather than holding their favored president accountable for his EOs and his administration's actions.

I recall, and yearn, for the by gone days when news casters weren't measured by ratings, and instead were concerned and focused on news reports that informed, rather than the news reports that we get now, which are to influence. Yearn for the bygone days when there were actual journalists presenting the news, rather than news commentators which spun off reporting their own favored views as if they were facts.

In my view, the news media has utterly failed to fulfill their part of the social contract, holding those in authority accountable, speaking truth to power (doesn't count if it's only one party), and informing the electorate (also a fail on their part).

An old joke: What do you call all journalists drowned in a river? Solving 1/3 the problem, the politicians lawyers need to follow.



It will be all for naught if Trump doesn't succeed in what he calls 'draining the swap'. By this, to me anyway, I take it as purging the partisan bureaucracy as well as reducing the bureaucracy over all (hell, it's accumulated a great deal of fat over the years, and that's why it's so horrendously expensive), as well as returning a great deal more power back to the states, where it belongs. Sure, the federal bureaucracy is going to fight him tooth and nail in doing that, but really, I think it needs to be done, and if there's a president that's going to be able to accomplish this, Trump would be the only one that I can think of, and I think the electorate recognized this, and elected him, regardless of his missteps, his sometimes less than elegant and PC self expression.

It raises the question as to what Trump misstep would impact his popular support in the electorate? Not sure I want to find out or live through it.

No, by winning the chair and giving it a good go he has blazed a trail that other better men will follow....Trump earned the tag "Patriot" on the basis of winning, being a success in moving the agenda of the Rebellion forwards as POTUS would be gravy. Remember, simply keeping the chair would be a winning of an intense war, if he can somehow manage to keep from being impeached that would be another huge win.

Ya gotta be reasonable man...
 
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No, by winning the chair and giving it a good go he has blazed a trail that other better men will follow....Trump earned the tag "Patriot" on the basis of winning, being a success in moving the agenda of the Rebellion forwards would be gravy. Remember, simply keeping the chair would be a winning of an intense war, if he can somehow manage to keep from being impeached that would be another huge win.

Ya gotta be reasonable man...

That's fair. The swap has overgrown for decades, and it's a larger job than a single presidency to drain it and set the country on the right course once again.
 
That's fair. The swap has overgrown for decades, and it's a larger job than a single presidency to drain it and set the country on the right course once again.

YA, and you are exactly right that there is tons of dead wood sitting around cluttering up the joint, which makes it very difficult to get any work done...this is more than a Spring Cleaning project, this is more like cleaning up a Super Fund Site.

Anyone who needs this proven to them need only look at what has happened to the Pentagon over the decades...there are WAY too many people there who contribute little or nothing to the nation....at great expense.


BUT...you might notice that Trumps own hand picked senior managers are squawking up a storm now that they are realizing that Trump is serious about cutting all this back, by choosing to not fill chairs until he is sure that we even need these chairs filled, and with his budget guidance for their departments.

Trump is trying, he will do his best till his last day standing, but this is very hard going....like plowing clay almost.
 
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No, by winning the chair and giving it a good go he has blazed a trail that other better men will follow....Trump earned the tag "Patriot" on the basis of winning, being a success in moving the agenda of the Rebellion forwards as POTUS would be gravy. Remember, simply keeping the chair would be a winning of an intense war, if he can somehow manage to keep from being impeached that would be another huge win.

Ya gotta be reasonable man...

Right-wing standards have fallen so far that "doesn't get forcibly removed from office due to gross misconduct or a literal felony" now constitutes "a huge win."
 
Right-wing standards have fallen so far that "doesn't get forcibly removed from office due to gross misconduct or a literal felony" now constitutes "a huge win."

Who are you calling "Right-Wing?"

Wish I knew how to post the pics:

You are a left moderate social libertarian.
Left: 4.37, Libertarian: 2.41

Foreign Policy:
On the left side are pacifists and anti-war activists. On the right side are those who want a strong military that intervenes around the world. You scored: 0.57

Culture:
Where are you in the culture war? On the liberal side, or the conservative side? This scale may apply more to the US than other countries. You scored: -0.11

Sounds right, I am economically a lefty, socially centrist who believes it is better to not have to go to war.
 
Other than in the NYT and other media it was reported that Obama's admin tried in July, I think it was, to get a FISA warrant, were denied, and then were successful in a second on later that year.

If your entire objection is based that 'Obama's admin' rather than 'Obama' was tweeted, that pretty weak sauce.

Given the history of Obama's admin's wiretapping, it certainly falls well within its character.


It's fortunate that president Trump has you to interpret his childish and insane communications to the world. What's weak is being an apologist for Trump's behavior. He's the leader of the free world behaving like a child.
 
Someone is lyin'

OMG. It's politics and someone is lying. Amazing.

However, what I will point out that the problem with ron paul's list is that it fails to distinguish between bias, being mistaken, and purposeful lying. It is using the technique of misdirection and equivicocation, as well as 'counter attack' to confuse the situation.
 
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One side is desperate....sees their power diminishing.

YOu seem to be.. deluded.

Scratch that.. There is no 'seems' about it.
 
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