• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Bazant Misconduct website is launched[W:111]

Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

MicahJava said:
Name some steel-framed skyscrapers in New York that had appeared structurally unsound when it had fires? Obviously, none collapsed, but name any that had firefighters or anybody concerned about their structural integrity from fire damage? Last I heard, firefighters have and do feel comfortable running into tall buildings to fight fires.
Click to expand...

Name some steel-framed skyscrapers in New York that suffered UN-FOUGHT FIRES for as long as WTC7.

Name some steel-framed skyscrapers in New York that SHOWED STRUCTURAL INSTABILITY DUE TO UN-FOUGHT FIRES.

Firefighters not entering a building is common if the building shows signs of instability.

Firefighters couldn’t get inside to attack the fire from a different angle because the structure was unstable and had bars on the windows, according to Glendale fire spokesman Ron Hart.
http://www.azfamily.com/story/31235...acking-flames-at-boarded-up-home-in-glendale\

"The steel beams were compromised due to the heat of the fire and won't sustain the weight," he said. "The entire roof has failed. It's a much easier process to take the building down. It's extremely dangerous, we don't want it collapsing."

“There’s so much piled up right there. We can’t go through it right now and underneath it does flare up every so often,” Romero said. “We have a crew there hitting hotpots from back, a truck company on either side of the building with a hose line up there hitting from top, and we do have lines set up in case anything does flare up in front.”
San Francisco Firefighters to Investigate Cause of Mission Fire; Building "Too Dangerous," Must Come Down | NBC Bay Area


But, hey... You know more than the firefighters
 
Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

Fledermaus said:
Name some steel-framed skyscrapers in New York that suffered UN-FOUGHT FIRES for as long as WTC7.

Name some steel-framed skyscrapers in New York that SHOWED STRUCTURAL INSTABILITY DUE TO UN-FOUGHT FIRES.

Firefighters not entering a building is common if the building shows signs of instability.

Firefighters couldn’t get inside to attack the fire from a different angle because the structure was unstable and had bars on the windows, according to Glendale fire spokesman Ron Hart.
http://www.azfamily.com/story/31235...acking-flames-at-boarded-up-home-in-glendale\

"The steel beams were compromised due to the heat of the fire and won't sustain the weight," he said. "The entire roof has failed. It's a much easier process to take the building down. It's extremely dangerous, we don't want it collapsing."

“There’s so much piled up right there. We can’t go through it right now and underneath it does flare up every so often,” Romero said. “We have a crew there hitting hotpots from back, a truck company on either side of the building with a hose line up there hitting from top, and we do have lines set up in case anything does flare up in front.”
San Francisco Firefighters to Investigate Cause of Mission Fire; Building "Too Dangerous," Must Come Down | NBC Bay Area


But, hey... You know more than the firefighters
Click to expand...

First he needs to drop the dishonest and irrelevant qualifier "skyscraper". That's just the start.
 
Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

mike2810 said:
Do you always debate by throwing jabs at those who disagree with you? Is your career in fire?

You should really familiarize yourself with NPFA, its guide for investigation and the investigation material. If you had you would know how the investigation used NPFA guidelines.

Do you believe NFPA is federal code? State code? Local code?
Do you believe NFPA is mandatory for the federal govt to follow?

The basic methodology identified in part 921 was utilized by investigators of the wtc collapse.

Your posts dealing with the investigation and NFPA has very little to do with the OP topic. I won't respond further regarding NFPA here. It is not the correct thread.

Do you know who is behind the OP linked web site?
Click to expand...

Following the NFPA 921 exactly isn't mandatory, hard to argue with that because apparently the lack of an investigation into deliberate destruction was legal.

The point is that several passages in the NFPA 921 eerily describe the case of the WTC destruction. For example:

"21.3.2 - High-Order Damage. High-order damage is characterized by shattering of the structure, producing small, pulverized debris. Walls, roofs, and structural members are splintered or shattered, with the building completely demolished. Debris is thrown great distances, possibly hundreds of feet. High-order damage is the result of rapid rates of pressure rise. (See Figure 21.3.2.)"

Gee, I wonder what that sounds like. Not just in the case of the Twin Towers, but there are at least two sources saying that the lobby of WTC 7 had an entire freaking elevator car that somehow came out of it's shaft and landed in the hallway.

"There was an elevator car that was blown out of the shaft and it was down the hall. This is the massive impact of Tower 1 onto Tower 7." -Richard Rotanz, BBC's The Conspiracy Files: The Third Tower BBC NEWS | Programmes | Conspiracy Files | Timeline: WTC 7

Others reported structural damage to a section of the building where there were “steel columns, just hanging from its attachment to the upper floors, and there was no walls, no outside walls to that particular side of the building.” An elevator car rested in the hallway, “blown out of the elevator shaft, and it was . . . 30 or 40 feet away from where the elevator shaft once was.” -anonymous, Aegis Insurance Services, Inc. v. 7 World Trade Center Company, L.P. http://www.ca2.uscourts.gov/decisio...3c33b98-9cbf-4b82-b557-6088e207c8f6/1/hilite/

Gee, I wonder what could have done that. Rubble from the North Tower? No, look at a diagram of the lobby and where the elevators were. Also, NIST specifically said that North Tower rubble could have only gotten far enough into the building to cause superficial damage to the core structure. :peace
 
Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

Fledermaus said:
Name some steel-framed skyscrapers in New York that suffered UN-FOUGHT FIRES for as long as WTC7.
Click to expand...

EEEH. Wrong. The earliest reports of WTC 7 collapse foreknowledge seem to have been made at around 1 PM or earlier. Like I said, psychic powers. Ever wonder who that OEM engineer was?

Also, can you give me an approximate time that bulge was first noticed? Seems to have been noticed AFTER the magic engineer told Peter the building was going to collapse in five hours.
 
Last edited:
Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

Fledermaus said:
Who said that?
Click to expand...

So you at least admit that one or more persons from the OEM had significant part in determining that WTC 7 was going to collapse later that afternoon?
 
Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

MicahJava said:
EEEH. Wrong. The earliest reports of WTC 7 collapse foreknowledge seem to have been made at around 1 PM or earlier. Like I said, psychic powers. Ever wonder who that OEM engineer was?
Click to expand...

Someone who understood what you apparently can't or won't.

And what does the "foreknowledge" (AKA being intelligent enough to figure out what was happening) indicate to you?

MicahJava said:
Also, can you give me an approximate time that bulge was first noticed? Seems to have been noticed AFTER the magic engineer told Peter the building was going to collapse in five hours.
Click to expand...

Salting your questions with childish nonsense as "psychic" and "magical" simply underlines your ignorance of the subject.

Since you cannot seem to figure it out....

Deputy Chief Peter Hayden
Division 1 - 33 years

...also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.

Suggests prior to two o'clock.
 
Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

MicahJava said:
So you at least admit that one or more persons from the OEM had significant part in determining that WTC 7 was going to collapse later that afternoon?
Click to expand...

Yes... Anyone that understood the situation might come up with the same conclusion.....

And?

Is there a point to your rabbit hole?
 
Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

Fledermaus said:
Someone who understood what you apparently can't or won't.

And what does the "foreknowledge" (AKA being intelligent enough to figure out what was happening) indicate to you?



Salting your questions with childish nonsense as "psychic" and "magical" simply underlines your ignorance of the subject.
Click to expand...

So you think there's nothing sketchy about how the building was predicted to collapse at "5 or 6 PM" and it collapsed at 5:22 PM? On what basis could anybody say that WTC 7 was certainly going to collapse by 1 PM?

Since you cannot seem to figure it out....

Deputy Chief Peter Hayden
Division 1 - 33 years

...also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.

Suggests prior to two o'clock.
Click to expand...

So some significant time after the psychic prediction. Okay.

"Then, like I said, building seven was in eminent collapse. They blew the horns. They said everyone clear the area until we got that last civilian out. We tried to give another quick search while we could, but then they wouldn't let us stay anymore. So we cleared the area." -Firefighter Tiernach Cassidy http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110413.PDF

I'm wondering if by "that last civilian", he meant Barry Jennings and Michael Hess. Then, we're talking about the orders definitely coming much earlier than 1 PM. When is the approximate time all the civilians were considered to have evacuated the WTC complex?
 
Last edited:
Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

Fledermaus said:
Yes... Anyone that understood the situation might come up with the same conclusion.....

And?

Is there a point to your rabbit hole?
Click to expand...

Lol are we really doing this where you're trying to tell me there's nothing strange about someone claiming with exact certainty that the building would collapse "at 5 or 6 PM"?
 
Last edited:
Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

MicahJava said:
Saying that the firefighters alone predicted Building 7's collapse with such precision is the deliberate dishonesty. By the way, I think you're technically still debating CT's.
Click to expand...

MarkF is right, he isn't debating. I haven't seen anything from him that one could honestly call debating. What he's doing is just denying.
 
Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

MicahJava said:
So you think there's nothing sketchy about how the building was predicted to collapse at "5 or 6 PM" and it collapsed at 5:22 PM? On what basis could anybody say that WTC 7 was certainly going to collapse by 1 PM?
Click to expand...

What is "sketchy" about an engineer making an educated guess?

What is "sketchy" about an firefighters making an educated guess?

MicahJava said:
So some significant time after the psychic prediction. Okay.
Click to expand...

No psychic prediction required.

Simple understanding of the effects of fire on structural steel.

Please stop the ignorant statements.


MicahJava said:
"Then, like I said, building seven was in eminent collapse. They blew the horns. They said everyone clear the area until we got that last civilian out. We tried to give another quick search while we could, but then they wouldn't let us stay anymore. So we cleared the area." -Firefighter Tiernach Cassidy http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110413.PDF
Click to expand...

And? Do you have a point?

MicahJava said:
I'm wondering if by "that last civilian", he meant Barry Jennings and Michael Hess. Then, we're talking about the orders definitely coming much earlier than 1 PM. When is the approximate time all the civilians were considered to have evacuated the WTC complex?
Click to expand...

Don't know off the top of my head.

Do you have a point?

There was "foreknowledge" (AKA intelligent people making intelligent predictions).

Do you have a point?
 
Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

MicahJava said:
Lol are we really doing this where you're trying to tell me there's nothing strange about someone claiming with exact certainty that the building would collapse "at 5 or 6 PM"?
Click to expand...

Please provide the text to support the claim "someone claiming with exact certainty that the building would collapse "at 5 or 6 PM".

Do you have a problem with educated guesses?
 
Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

Tony Szamboti said:
MarkF is right, he isn't debating. I haven't seen anything from him that one could honestly call debating. What he's doing is just denying.
Click to expand...

And all the "Truthers" are doing is regurgitating long debunked talking points.....

Got an intelligent theory for CD yet?
 
Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

Fledermaus said:
Please provide the text to support the claim "someone claiming with exact certainty that the building would collapse "at 5 or 6 PM".

Do you have a problem with educated guesses?
Click to expand...

I have. I gave you plenty of information showing how completely 100% sure everyone was that it was going to collapse. If you don't know that already, then you are uninformed about the circumstances surrounding Building 7's demise. You just didn't bother to read or watch the material I gave.
 
Last edited:
Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

Fledermaus said:
And all the "Truthers" are doing is regurgitating long debunked talking points.....

Got an intelligent theory for CD yet?
Click to expand...


Do you have an intelligent anything yet?
 
Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

MicahJava said:
I have. I gave you plenty of information showing how completely 100% sure everyone was that it was going to collapse. You just didn't bother to read or watch the material I gave.
Click to expand...

So, no actual text.....

And?

Intelligent and educated people made intelligent and educated predictions.

Do you have a point?
 
Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

Fledermaus said:
What is "sketchy" about an engineer making an educated guess?

What is "sketchy" about an firefighters making an educated guess?



No psychic prediction required.

Simple understanding of the effects of fire on structural steel.

Please stop the ignorant statements.




And? Do you have a point?



Don't know off the top of my head.

Do you have a point?

There was "foreknowledge" (AKA intelligent people making intelligent predictions).

Do you have a point?
Click to expand...

I have my points and I gave them. Do you have a blunt? Maybe you're so intoxicated from that dank that you don't see the giant hole in the official story when the foreknowledge of Building 7's collapse can be traced back so early after the North Tower collapsed.
 
Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

Tony Szamboti said:
A take down of the core is precisely what happened to WTC 7 at 5:20 PM on Sept. 11, 2001.
Click to expand...

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd?

Some engineers think that was due to fire....

Well, practically all of them.

ETA - The challenge was "Got an intelligent theory for CD yet?"
 
Last edited:
Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

MicahJava said:
I have my points and I gave them. Do you have a blunt? Maybe you're so intoxicated from that dank that you don't see the giant hole in the official story when the foreknowledge of Building 7's collapse can be traced back so early after the North Tower collapsed.
Click to expand...

So effing what?

Intelligent and educated people made intelligent and educated predictions.

Do you have a point?

Be blunt.
 
Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

Fledermaus said:
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd?

Some engineers think that was due to fire....

Well, practically all of them.
Click to expand...

Annnnnnd there was no flammable material in the core structure. Nor is there in the elevator shafts of any building. And no evidence that there was an opening for fires to have even gotten near core structure. The official story is a progressive collapse from the east to the west, not a symmetrical takedown of the core.
 
Last edited:
Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

Fledermaus said:
So effing what?

Intelligent and educated people made intelligent and educated predictions.

Do you have a point?

Be blunt.
Click to expand...

Just to be sure, when you keep asking me if I have a "point", you're not asking me for 0.1 grams of some kind of substance, are you?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom