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Was 9/11 Really A Surprise Attack?

Serious??

A majority of the world is either indifferent to or has a hatred for the US.

Regardless, terrorism is NOT a product of jealousy, rather it is a product of oppression and fighting back against that oppression.

Now, technically, in the simplistic fashion that we were sold this, it's not technically a lie because, while they may not hate the us because it is a free country, they do hate the us because that freedom is the source of their oppression.

I was asking Oglaigh. for his comment of "The real conspiracy about 9/11 was the nonsense from the government that "they hate us because we're free." That is the real conspiracy and is still being perpetuated by the Obama government.
 
I was asking Oglaigh. for his comment of "The real conspiracy about 9/11 was the nonsense from the government that "they hate us because we're free." That is the real conspiracy and is still being perpetuated by the Obama government.

Ya, he responded too, but come on... You can't actually have bought THAT lie as well??

At the very least it's a lawyers twisting of words as propaganda, but in a real sense it's a lie.
 
Care to share a source that backs up this statement that the Patriot Act was prewritten.

It is speculation that President Bush knew the exact date,time and method of the terrorist attack. If you have 100% proof, you should take Bush, et.al. to court.

The USA PATRIOT Act Was Planned Before 9/11
“The PATRIOT Act was written many, many years before 9/11,” Paul said. The attacks simply provided “an opportunity for some people to do what they wanted to do,” he said.
Ron Paul:


Wargames simulated a 9/11 type attack (same method)
9-11 Review: Multiple War Games on 9-11-01 Helped to Disable Air Defense

Friendly Fascism - or Full Strength?
 
The USA PATRIOT Act Was Planned Before 9/11
“The PATRIOT Act was written many, many years before 9/11,” Paul said. The attacks simply provided “an opportunity for some people to do what they wanted to do,” he said.
Ron Paul:


Wargames simulated a 9/11 type attack (same method)
9-11 Review: Multiple War Games on 9-11-01 Helped to Disable Air Defense

Friendly Fascism - or Full Strength?

Well Kane, as others have thrown at me at times, interesting sources, but all BS. They are opinions. Even Ron Paul's. that is why I said when I did a search I found no verifyalble links to the statement.
If attacking sources is good for one side to use, so can I.
 
The PNAC are still up to their old shenanigans.

"We then consider several of the certified warmongers serving upon NED's board of directors including Francis Fukuyama, Zalmay Khalilzad, Will Marshall, and Vin Weber, all signatories of the pro-war, pro-corporate Project for a New American Century. Within the pages of documents produced by this "think tank" are pleas to various US presidents to pursue war against sovereign nations, the increase of troops in nations already occupied by US forces, and what equates to a call for American global hegemony in a Hitlerian 90 page document titled "Rebuilding Americas Defenses." As we will see, this warmongering think tank serves as a nexus around which fellow disingenuous rights advocate Freedom House also gravitates."

Land Destroyer: NED & Freedom House are run by Warmongering Imperialists
 
The PNAC are still up to their old shenanigans.

"We then consider several of the certified warmongers serving upon NED's board of directors including Francis Fukuyama, Zalmay Khalilzad, Will Marshall, and Vin Weber, all signatories of the pro-war, pro-corporate Project for a New American Century. Within the pages of documents produced by this "think tank" are pleas to various US presidents to pursue war against sovereign nations, the increase of troops in nations already occupied by US forces, and what equates to a call for American global hegemony in a Hitlerian 90 page document titled "Rebuilding Americas Defenses." As we will see, this warmongering think tank serves as a nexus around which fellow disingenuous rights advocate Freedom House also gravitates."

Land Destroyer: NED & Freedom House are run by Warmongering Imperialists

yawn! 10 characters
 
9/11 Warnings
not a surprise attack nor an "intelligence failure"

bush_news.gif
warning_911.jpg



Warnings about 9/11 were sent to the Bush / Cheney administration from

Afghanistan (under the Taliban)
Argentina
Britain
Cayman Islands
Egypt
France
Germany
India
Israel
Italy
Jordan
Morocco
Saudi Arabia?
Russia
USA (FBI investigations of the flight schools)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9/11 warnings: not a surprise attack nor intelligence "failure"
 
9/11 Warnings
not a surprise attack nor an "intelligence failure"

bush_news.gif
warning_911.jpg



Warnings about 9/11 were sent to the Bush / Cheney administration from

Afghanistan (under the Taliban)
Argentina
Britain
Cayman Islands
Egypt
France
Germany
India
Israel
Italy
Jordan
Morocco
Saudi Arabia?
Russia
USA (FBI investigations of the flight schools)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9/11 warnings: not a surprise attack nor intelligence "failure"

Care to come up with any mainstream sources.

What Bush Knew Before Sept. 11 - CBS News

We all know that the Govt. knew of possible threats. What was not known was specific dates and times.
 
I use to believe that 9/11 was an inside job and if it came out that it was tomorrow, I wouldn't be too surprised given the stuff that America engages in regarding their foreign policy. That said, Mark Roberts tore Alex Jones and Richard Gage asunder. Bermas and Avery put up a decent fight but in the end, the truth prevailed.

Probably the only thing wrong with my original posting was that Michael Moore was listed by the author.I think Farenheit 9/11 is top notch, like most people, but i disagree with the conclusion, i don't think the Saudi's did it, or funded it. I think that is disinformation Moore got wrong by mistake, and he rarely makes any! I don't know who Mark Roberts is, but I don't care for Gage. I heard him on the radio a couple times, and I just don't care for presentations/ writing style. Both oilempire.us and 911review.com have lists of bad sites and hoaxes. Alex Jones is mentioned as frequently using bad info. Also, 9/11 Truth is not a monolithic organization, like the Lamestream Media is, all owned by the same corporations. However, I do believe the disinfo sites RE: 9/11 do act in a monolithic fashion, as the debunkers do.

There is too many lies from the 9/11 truth movement and too many inaccuracies, particularly around Bin Laden. I admit there is kooky stuff such as the hijackers in strip clubs, etc but that is not concrete proof that 9/11 was an inside job.

The same way that Jones' website claimed that Chomsky and Howard Zinn were basically agents because they rule out 9/11, it is really ridiculous. Anyone who disagrees seems to be an agent. What annoys me is that 9/11 is so fascinating and the reasons behind it even more so.

Remember, Pacifica Radio broadcast many of these shows hosted with names listed at the original post.I was there, and listened to them live at the time. David Corn is not somebody I would normally slander, or even Norman Soloman, because they have done a lot of serious reporting. But you cannot simply dismiss their concerted attacks on 9/11 Truth as merely differing opinion. On the radio, they did not give specifics or disagree on point with researchers, they merely called them kooks, cut them off, yelled at them, or totally dissed them at times. Like GOP radio/Fox News use character assassination rather than honest policy debate to discredit their opponents, the Ford Foundation funded/Nation magazine types inlcuding Howard Zinn, who i have a personal distaste for, because I think he is a classic case of Cointelpro, like Chomsky,(see post #35) their timing and unsubstantiated dismissal of key facts and crimes of the State, work to discredit and demoralize liberalism and progressivism.
 
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The major financier of AQ flat out says why they attacked.
 
So the same Reagan/Bush cabinet people who gave us Iran/Contra, CIA drug smuggling crack to the inner cities, the October Surprise, illegal campaign money from China, a WMD lie, Cheney's 9/11 stand down and subsequent cover up, the 9/11 breifing warning of imminent attack before 9/11 and that coverup, the downing street memo, are somehow not capable of creating the illusion Bin Laden was still alive with fake audio recordings and old video, so Exxon/Haliburton/Unocal can get control of the worlds oil?
 
I imagine those "left gatekeepers" correctly concluded that there was no truth to truther conspiracy theories, and printed/posted articles accordingly. If there had been some credible proof that Bush was aware of the attack yet chose to do nothing about it, they would certainly have reported on that. That would have been the biggest scandal since Watergate.

How about the fact that the Afghanistan war was planned before 9/11?

A world made safe for peace and pipelines

"October 1996, the Frankfurter Rundschau reported that Unocal `has been given the go-ahead from the new holders of power in Kabul to build a pipeline from Turkmenistan via Afghanistan to Pakistan . . .' This was a real coup for Unocal as well as other candidates for pipelines, including Condoleezza's old employer Chevron"

"a BBC regional correspondent says the proposal to build a pipeline across Afghanistan is part of an international scramble to profit from developing the rich energy resources of the Caspian Sea."


The Enemy Withi, by Gore Vidal, 10/27/02
 
9/11 was a conspiracy. Look at what happened in the 1993 World Trade Center Bombing. It failed but it managed to cost several lives. What did Clinton do? Nothing, he let that happened. In 2001, Bush was informed that the Tower was crashed by a plane. What did Bush do when he was informed? He was sitting down on a chair in front of young kids and pretended that everything was all right. It was an excuse to go to war against Afghanistan and middle eastern countries. Do I have to remind you that it was not the country's military that attacked US. It was a terrorist organization. The war on terrorism was just stupid. Bush sent the military to bomb a country that did not invade us in the first place. Bush put millions and millions of innocent lives on the line when they were innocent. It was the Al-Qaeda organization and Osama Bin Laden that did this not a country. Fighting Iraq for 10 years was a waste of money which was why the economy crashed. I can't believe that it took 10 years to kill Osama Bin Laden. It should have taken the United States a matter of days after 9/11 happened.
 
9/11 was a conspiracy. Look at what happened in the 1993 World Trade Center Bombing. It failed but it managed to cost several lives. What did Clinton do? Nothing, he let that happened. In 2001, Bush was informed that the Tower was crashed by a plane. What did Bush do when he was informed? He was sitting down on a chair in front of young kids and pretended that everything was all right. It was an excuse to go to war against Afghanistan and middle eastern countries. Do I have to remind you that it was not the country's military that attacked US. It was a terrorist organization. The war on terrorism was just stupid. Bush sent the military to bomb a country that did not invade us in the first place. Bush put millions and millions of innocent lives on the line when they were innocent. It was the Al-Qaeda organization and Osama Bin Laden that did this not a country. Fighting Iraq for 10 years was a waste of money which was why the economy crashed. I can't believe that it took 10 years to kill Osama Bin Laden. It should have taken the United States a matter of days after 9/11 happened.

Bush pretended everything was alright because he was sitting on a chair in front of young kids. What should he have done, immediately stood up and start screaming? Geez.
 
Bush pretended everything was alright because he was sitting on a chair in front of young kids. What should he have done, immediately stood up and start screaming? Geez.

He shoulda stood up and yelled "Holy ****! We're under attack by terrorists who are flying airplanes full of people into buildings!! Hundreds are dying and the Twin Towers are on fire! Ahhhhh!"

And then went running from the room, screaming for his mother.



Damn it, I'm in CT again. I wish this section did not appear on the right column main page, "Newest Forum Posts".
 
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Bush should have said to the kids, "I'm sorry kids and I want to thank you for having me here today, but something urgent came up and I must leave."
 
I don't see any definitive evidence that there was a conspiracy.
 
I don't see any definitive evidence that there was a conspiracy.

What in your mind would constitute "definitive evidence"??

Cause really, the "official version" depends on so many interdependent "COINCIDENCES" that can each individually be accepted as such, but there comes a point where you stretch the capacity for the story to be believable, that to me is the evidence of planning, and inside knowledge.

But, let's go with what would suit YOU as evidence and go from there...
 
What in your mind would constitute "definitive evidence"??

Cause really, the "official version" depends on so many interdependent "COINCIDENCES" that can each individually be accepted as such, but there comes a point where you stretch the capacity for the story to be believable, that to me is the evidence of planning, and inside knowledge.

But, let's go with what would suit YOU as evidence and go from there...

Let me ask you, what would constitute "definative evidence"?
The reason I am asking is to be able to review the theory at the same standard as someone who is providing an alternative answer.
Here is where I am coming from. For now lets set aside the "official version". What evidence is provided to support "controlled demolition"?

Why should I believe what was presented in the OP? Put aside the official version. Lets say the OP is the final "official" version of what happened. Do you see any missing pieces in the theory? Do they answers all your questions?

Yes, we know you and others don't like the "official version".
and no, you don't always have to come back to say well the offical version was wrong here, or didn't mention x,y and z. That is just a way to deflect the weakness in a theory. It is way past time for the alternate theories to stand on thier own merits.
 
I don't see any definitive evidence that there was a conspiracy.

Could that possibly be because there is none?
 
Could that possibly be because there is none?

That's what I was thinking.

Truthers/Birthers are conspiracy theorists. If they have any valid evidence it'd prove useful.
 
What in your mind would constitute "definitive evidence"??

Cause really, the "official version" depends on so many interdependent "COINCIDENCES" that can each individually be accepted as such, but there comes a point where you stretch the capacity for the story to be believable, that to me is the evidence of planning, and inside knowledge.

But, let's go with what would suit YOU as evidence and go from there...

Simply, I wonder if there is any valid evidence for such a conspiracy theory. I figured there wasn't, but I'd like to see what drives these theorists.
 
Let me ask you, what would constitute "definative evidence"?

Frankly, there is not one singular piece of evidence that as a standalone piece of evidence would count as something definitive.

What becomes definitive for me is when you take the whole set of data points if you get enough dots together it starts to paint a picture.

Ultimately, if you looked at all the evidence (per-screened for accuracy, because there is some stuff that is not truly supportable) and the least you could accept is that the official reports are flawed, and at least that the government was aware of the attacks and did nothing to stop it, and also that al-quaida is a US asset.

The reason I am asking is to be able to review the theory at the same standard as someone who is providing an alternative answer.
Here is where I am coming from. For now lets set aside the "official version". What evidence is provided to support "controlled demolition"?

Ok, well, given how this "theory" is going to be individual to the evidence that a person has considered, and pieces together from the outside without required access.

Now, since the investigators had a higher level of access to information, and being sanctioned by the government (more than a year later), top secret access, etc... It's expected that they be held to a higher standard.


Why should I believe what was presented in the OP? Put aside the official version. Lets say the OP is the final "official" version of what happened. Do you see any missing pieces in the theory? Do they answers all your questions?

That's the problem is that it would take well over the 12k character limit to go over all the evidence and to make a proper case concerning what had to have happened above and beyond the official accounts.

Yes, we know you and others don't like the "official version".
and no, you don't always have to come back to say well the offical version was wrong here, or didn't mention x,y and z. That is just a way to deflect the weakness in a theory. It is way past time for the alternate theories to stand on thier own merits.

Yes, well, as I said, it's very difficult to offer a complete and thorough explanation for every minute detail... Simply because this is an outside investigation based on all publicly available and reported facts.

My approach to be the most thorough would be to start with the official reports and then to offer corrections where appropriate... In this way you are not simply blanket dismissing the official reports. ( though with the extent of the problems of the official reports, we could just blanket dismiss them and not be overboard)
 
Right, B-Man. Also let's put the burden on the U.S. government to prove the alledged threats for all this blood and treasure we're sacrificing for these wars! No terrorist training camps or secret cave bases were ever found in Afghanistan. Where's the WMD's? Why was a 9/11-Saddam link concocted by Cheney to invade Iraq if American war powers were so justified? All we got are these old unauthenticated Bin Laden videos, (filmed sometime between 1986 and forever, ahem!) and audio tapes alledged to claim this and that! Some proof of old Middle East spy networks allegedly repsonsibe for Mumbai and Tanzania. The ISI in Pakistan the usual suspect for everything these days, were all U.S. trained just as Saddam and on the U.S. payroll was armed for conflict w/ Iran by America.
 
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