• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Firebrand agitator says hello.

W

Welkin

Banned
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
262
Reaction score
113
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
I've already posted a few times, but perhaps it's best if you've seen what I'm like before choosing to greet me with anything resembling cordiality. I'm likely to make everyone on all sides angry at some point. I don't mince words, and I'll 'eat my own' in a heartbeat.

That said, it's not my wish to make enemies on either side of th fence. In a perfect world I'd be able to vehemently disagree and then chat the same guy or gal up about some game, but I'm still working on the ability to do that.

Anyhoo, I'm a soc-dem with a strong social anarchist bent. In otherwords, I'm kinda weird. I don't fit neatly in the small government\big government dichotomy. I think more in terms of bad government, good government, and no government.

Socially, I'm liberal, but also nuanced, and capable of going against the grain.

In terms of foreign policy, I'm a non-interventionalist, and feel that all war, save for defence against a formidable aggressor, is unjust.

Economically speaking, I'm a soc-dem who wishes that we join the rest of the world when it comes to things like universal healthcare. I also want to tax the **** out of the ultra wealthy and diminish reliance on welfare by focusing on higher wages and empowering unions

To trump supporters, I will say that we aren't going to agree on much of anything. My hope is that we come to an understanding of where we are each coming from, if nothing else.

I'm probably going to have more heated arguments with centrists. It's one thing to argue with people that you know will never agree with you, but another to argue with those closer to your position.

When not working, I'm usually playing videogames or watching Youtube. My username is from a teurn-based strategy game\ JRPG called Valkyria Chronicles.

Before I forget, blue lives don't matter. ;p
 
Welkin said:
I've already posted a few times, but perhaps it's best if you've seen what I'm like before choosing to greet me with anything resembling cordiality. I'm likely to make everyone on all sides angry at some point. I don't mince words, and I'll 'eat my own' in a heartbeat.

That said, it's not my wish to make enemies on either side of th fence. In a perfect world I'd be able to vehemently disagree and then chat the same guy or gal up about some game, but I'm still working on the ability to do that.

Anyhoo, I'm a soc-dem with a strong social anarchist bent. In otherwords, I'm kinda weird. I don't fit neatly in the small government\big government dichotomy. I think more in terms of bad government, good government, and no government.

Socially, I'm liberal, but also nuanced, and capable of going against the grain.

In terms of foreign policy, I'm a non-interventionalist, and feel that all war, save for defence against a formidable aggressor, is unjust.

Economically speaking, I'm a soc-dem who wishes that we join the rest of the world when it comes to things like universal healthcare. I also want to tax the **** out of the ultra wealthy and diminish reliance on welfare by focusing on higher wages and empowering unions

To trump supporters, I will say that we aren't going to agree on much of anything. My hope is that we come to an understanding of where we are each coming from, if nothing else.

I'm probably going to have more heated arguments with centrists. It's one thing to argue with people that you know will never agree with you, but another to argue with those closer to your position.

When not working, I'm usually playing videogames or watching Youtube. My username is from a teurn-based strategy game\ JRPG called Valkyria Chronicles.

Before I forget, blue lives don't matter. ;p
Click to expand...

Welcome to DP... But this is not funny.
 
DiAnna said:
Welcome to DP... But this is not funny.
Click to expand...

I shouldn't have even used the emoticon, because I really don't find it all that funny either, Dianna.

About five years back, I was a mod for a small community populated by mostly right-wingers. Every day since the Ferguson incident was a new instance of another unjust killing, and every day almost every asshat fell in line with excusing black men and sometimes children getting shot in the back. At the time, I championed peaceful protests, condemned rioting, and condemned the desparagement of all cops.

Ive now arrived at the conclusion that nobody who doesn't already care, will care, and that all cops are bad.

People often reference a 'few bad apples', but the whole phrase is 'a few bad apples will spoil the bunch'. The whole bunch is spoiled when they resign in solidarity when they're own are held accountable, when the entire culture is geared around ostracism of whistleblowers.

Blue lives won't matter to me until cops stop pledging to uphold unjust laws like civil forfeiture, until they call out their corrupt brethren, until they stop wearing T-shirts mocking Eric Garner's last words, until they stop teargassing peaceful protestors and shooting reporters with rubber bullets.

"Cop lives don't matter" is exactly how I want to respond to all my friends and family posting 'blue lives matter' crap in either an intentional or unitententional dismissal of the epidemic of undertrained, underpaid government officials murdering citizens.

No, I don't really think it's funny either, and I'm sorry I used an emoji. Let me say it in a more serious manner: **** the police.
 
Welkin said:
Before I forget, blue lives don't matter. ;p
Click to expand...

Life matters.

Welkin said:
I shouldn't have even used the emoticon, because I really don't find it all that funny either, Dianna.

<>

"Cop lives don't matter" is exactly how I want to respond to all my friends and family posting 'blue lives matter' crap in either an intentional or unitententional dismissal of the epidemic of undertrained, underpaid government officials murdering citizens.

No, I don't really think it's funny either, and I'm sorry I used an emoji. Let me say it in a more serious manner: **** the police.
Click to expand...

"I'm going to be as bad as the thing I am criticizing" is never a good argument. Life matters. It's why prison conditions in America are something to object to and why prison rape jokes are as ugly as sin: because even if we put someone in for something horrible, we have to be better than them.

If we're not better than them, then what the hell do we think we're doing looking down on them for what they did?

Ditto with your blue lives swill.



Of course cops' lives matter. So too do even bad cops' lives. They are, ultimately, human beings. If they are bad, they should be punished accordingly.

We should demand more of the police than an average citizen. We should hold them to a higher standard. But we can't say that while holding ourselves to a lower standard.
 
Mr Person said:
Life matters.



"I'm going to be as bad as the thing I am criticizing" is never a good argument. Life matters. It's why prison conditions in America are something to object to and why prison rape jokes are as ugly as sin: because even if we put someone in for something horrible, we have to be better than them.

If we're not better than them, then what the hell do we think we're doing looking down on them for what they did?

Ditto with your blue lives swill.



Of course cops' lives matter. So too do even bad cops' lives. They are, ultimately, human beings. If they are bad, they should be punished accordingly.

We should demand more of the police than an average citizen. We should hold them to a higher standard. But we can't say that while holding ourselves to a lower standard.
Click to expand...

You know what? I concede. You're right, and at one point I used to know this. I suppose that I've been letting myself get too riled up lately.

Being a cop is not a safe job, and sometimes, they die in the line of duty; I'm just really sick of people parading this fact around to detract from the issue of cops killing unarmed persons and using unneccessary, undue force. The slogans, 'Blue Lives Matter' and 'All Lives Matter' litterally only exist as a rebuttal to 'Black Lives Matter'. The whole purpose of the first two phrases is to negate the awareness that the BLM cause tries create, and to sinisterly imply that movement is actually implying that only black lives matter, rather than what it's actually supposed to allude to . . . that we, as a society either don't care, or don't care enough. It's all too easy for people to dismiss anyone in handcuffs as just a thug, or garbage, less than human.

It's a tired red herring, and even a child should be able to see through it.

Perhaps my Facebook timeline is having a negative impact on my sanity.
 
Welcome to DP, and with that opening I would expect your time here to get entertaining and fast.
 
Welcome aboard!

7b72b10b773dd9676b78115e2cad94b9cdf4bc93.gif
 
Welkin said:
I've already posted a few times, but perhaps it's best if you've seen what I'm like before choosing to greet me with anything resembling cordiality. I'm likely to make everyone on all sides angry at some point. I don't mince words, and I'll 'eat my own' in a heartbeat.

That said, it's not my wish to make enemies on either side of th fence. In a perfect world I'd be able to vehemently disagree and then chat the same guy or gal up about some game, but I'm still working on the ability to do that.

Anyhoo, I'm a soc-dem with a strong social anarchist bent. In otherwords, I'm kinda weird. I don't fit neatly in the small government\big government dichotomy. I think more in terms of bad government, good government, and no government.

Socially, I'm liberal, but also nuanced, and capable of going against the grain.

In terms of foreign policy, I'm a non-interventionalist, and feel that all war, save for defence against a formidable aggressor, is unjust.

Economically speaking, I'm a soc-dem who wishes that we join the rest of the world when it comes to things like universal healthcare. I also want to tax the **** out of the ultra wealthy and diminish reliance on welfare by focusing on higher wages and empowering unions

To trump supporters, I will say that we aren't going to agree on much of anything. My hope is that we come to an understanding of where we are each coming from, if nothing else.

I'm probably going to have more heated arguments with centrists. It's one thing to argue with people that you know will never agree with you, but another to argue with those closer to your position.

When not working, I'm usually playing videogames or watching Youtube. My username is from a teurn-based strategy game\ JRPG called Valkyria Chronicles.

Before I forget, blue lives don't matter. ;p
Click to expand...


Mr Person said:
"I'm going to be as bad as the thing I am criticizing" is never a good argument. Life matters. It's why prison conditions in America are something to object to and why prison rape jokes are as ugly as sin: because even if we put someone in for something horrible, we have to be better than them.

If we're not better than them, then what the hell do we think we're doing looking down on them for what they did?

Ditto with your blue lives swill.


Of course cops' lives matter. So too do even bad cops' lives. They are, ultimately, human beings. If they are bad, they should be punished accordingly.

We should demand more of the police than an average citizen. We should hold them to a higher standard. But we can't say that while holding ourselves to a lower standard.
Click to expand...


Welkin said:
You know what? I concede. You're right, and at one point I used to know this. I suppose that I've been letting myself get too riled up lately.

Being a cop is not a safe job, and sometimes, they die in the line of duty; I'm just really sick of people parading this fact around to detract from the issue of cops killing unarmed persons and using unneccessary, undue force. The slogans, 'Blue Lives Matter' and 'All Lives Matter' litterally only exist as a rebuttal to 'Black Lives Matter'. The whole purpose of the first two phrases is to negate the awareness that the BLM cause tries create, and to sinisterly imply that movement is actually implying that only black lives matter, rather than what it's actually supposed to allude to . . . that we, as a society either don't care, or don't care enough. It's all too easy for people to dismiss anyone in handcuffs as just a thug, or garbage, less than human.

It's a tired red herring, and even a child should be able to see through it.

Perhaps my Facebook timeline is having a negative impact on my sanity.
Click to expand...

Your ability to concede when you realize you were wrong makes me think you will bring more civility and cordiality to these forums, not less.

Welcome to DP.
 
Welkin said:
You know what? I concede. You're right, and at one point I used to know this. I suppose that I've been letting myself get too riled up lately.

Being a cop is not a safe job, and sometimes, they die in the line of duty; I'm just really sick of people parading this fact around to detract from the issue of cops killing unarmed persons and using unneccessary, undue force. The slogans, 'Blue Lives Matter' and 'All Lives Matter' litterally only exist as a rebuttal to 'Black Lives Matter'. The whole purpose of the first two phrases is to negate the awareness that the BLM cause tries create, and to sinisterly imply that movement is actually implying that only black lives matter, rather than what it's actually supposed to allude to . . . that we, as a society either don't care, or don't care enough. It's all too easy for people to dismiss anyone in handcuffs as just a thug, or garbage, less than human.

It's a tired red herring, and even a child should be able to see through it.

Perhaps my Facebook timeline is having a negative impact on my sanity.
Click to expand...

Oh, I feel exactly the same about the "it's a tough job" line.

It's a tough job is why they should both be held to a higher standard AND meet that standard. It should never be an excuse for holding them to a lower bar.





Full disclosure: I do criminal defense, appellate and other post-conviction practice, focusing on indigent defendants only. I have more than a little professional bias against the police, but I'm certain I can name objective bases for every last bit of it.
 
Mr Person said:
Oh, I feel exactly the same about the "it's a tough job" line.

It's a tough job is why they should both be held to a higher standard AND meet that standard. It should never be an excuse for holding them to a lower bar.





Full disclosure: I do criminal defense, appellate and other post-conviction practice, focusing on indigent defendants only. I have more than a little professional bias against the police, but I'm certain I can name objective bases for every last bit of it.
Click to expand...

I would go as far as to say that along with defunding various aspects of law enforcement, that we should probably increase their pay. I would like to attract the 'best of the best' to this profession. There are after-high-school options out there that don't involve the potential to ruin our outright destroy people's lives.

I didn't see that last line at first; you're doing God's work. (I speak figuratively, as I have no supernatural beleifs.)
 
Last edited:
lwf said:
Your ability to concede when you realize you were wrong makes me think you will bring more civility and cordiality to these forums, not less.

Welcome to DP.
Click to expand...

Oh, I can be stubborn as hell, confrontational, and massively irritating when I forget my place and let my ego get ahead of me. I'm working on that last bit.

Being the introverted shut-in that I am, I've been posting on forums since high-school, during the early 2000's. I've fallen out of the logical fallacy tree and have hit every single branch on the way down. I don't always bend over backwards to show respect, but I have found, over the years, that the way that I chose to engage a person could have an impact on the other person's willingness to even contemplate my position. Being a dick won't lead to a more productive conversation, and turning it into win/lose battle between egos is just going to make the other person more likely to feel that they will lose face if they concede or give even an inch.

Unfortunately, prolonged overexposure to certain arguements and attitudes has proven to be a massive drain on my patience. I can be pretty damned ugly if I allow myself to be.
 
Welkin said:
Oh, I can be stubborn as hell, confrontational, and massively irritating when I forget my place and let my ego get ahead of me. I'm working on that last bit.

Being the introverted shut-in that I am, I've been posting on forums since high-school, during the early 2000's. I've fallen out of the logical fallacy tree and have hit every single branch on the way down. I don't always bend over backwards to show respect, but I have found, over the years, that the way that I chose to engage a person could have an impact on the other person's willingness to even contemplate my position. Being a dick won't lead to a more productive conversation, and turning it into win/lose battle between egos is just going to make the other person more likely to feel that they will lose face if they concede or give even an inch.

Unfortunately, prolonged overexposure to certain arguements and attitudes has proven to be a massive drain on my patience. I can be pretty damned ugly if I allow myself to be.
Click to expand...

You will have plenty of opportunities here, I'm afraid.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom