Is Islam protected by the Constitution?

ElChupacabra said:

Oh, so all of these people are just sitting around waiting for their nations to develop their military might and then wage war on everyone else? By extension you're positing Muslims in this country and other countries are also part of this plot?

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Yep. That is what the Qur'an teaches. The invasion of the west is planned out in Qur'an 6:158. I will post these verses with tafsir after responding to your post here.

ElChupacabra said:

I've read through what you've written, but your premise fails almost immediately because it assumes everyone will interpret and practice the teachings of the Koran in exactly the same way.

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Think of it this way: If muslims are so peaceful then why are they muslims? If you want to live a peaceful existence then why not follow Christ Who commands believers to murder nobody, not even with the tongue? Why do they cling to a religion that is inherently evil? Well, much of the reason is that they cannot leave Islam or they will be killed. So many muslims are peaceful but not allowed to live peaceful lives. So its Islam that makes Islamic terrorism and those teachings run deep in Islam. But you want to dismiss the teachings of terror and pretend no muslims read nor care about what the Qur'an says. For muslims who have never read the Qur'an I encourage them to read it! Maybe then they will see that their religion is hate and leave Islam completely!

ElChupacabra said:

There are many factors that play into the importance of religiosity in people's lives so to assume all Muslims will suddenly behave the same way is absurd; within Islam itself there are sectarian divides. If we look at other faiths we see the same dynamic in terms of various sects based on different interpretations of their sacred text. Most Muslims I've known range from the more religious to those who only go to Mosque for the major events; that mirrors Christian and Jews I know as well.

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All sacred religious texts have meaning to those who believe. Atheists assume nothing has meaning which is why muslims so easily are able to manipulate the minds of gullible atheists who's only war is with Christians and Jews. So evil attacks evil -- more evidence that Satan exist.

The Qur'an needs very little interpretation. There is no prophecy in the Qur'an and tafsir scholars have already interpreted every passage in the Qur'an for you. I have cited classical tafsir scholars here but you rejected it. But Islamic scholars are like rock stars and football players in the Islamic world which is something you don't seem to understand.

ElChupacabra said:

Ok, so let's cut to the chase here. What are you proposing the rest of the world do with its Muslim population? Based on everything you've posted you're stating that true Muslims are literal adherents of violent jihad; so the end game is what exactly?

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Finally, a sensible question. The best thing we are to do, considering all the terror attacks on western soil that have taken place, is to deport all muslims from all western nations. If you want to defeat Islamic terrorism this is the easiest way to crush the caliphate. Muslims will not attack if a nation is united against them. They know they are outnumbered in the world and, currently, outgunned. The best way to destroy Islam is to become energy independent and stop all trade to Islamic nations. This way Islam will have to rely on Islam and the people will go crazy and life will be so unbearable for such a long time that in time Islam will fade away to revolutions which will overthrow Islam and it would be no more. Because if muslims had to rely on Islam for all their needs then Islam would be no more.

Emigration to the west main war strategy used.

Noble Qur'an 6:158,

"Do they then wait for anything other than that the angels should come to them, or that your Lord (Allah) should come, or that some of the Signs of your Lord should come [i.e., portents of the Hour e.g., rising of the sun from the west)! The day that some of the Signs of your Lord do come; no good will it do to a person to believe then, if he believed not before, nor earned good (by performing deeds of righteousness) through his Faith. Say: "Wait you! we (too) are waiting."
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Famous Tafsir Scholar Ibn Kathir (Top Islamic Scholar on Tribulation Tafsir):

From the book: The Signs Before The Day Of Judgement, Ibn Kathir, pp.86,87

"No good will it do to a soul to believe in them then, if it believed not before nor earned righteousness through its faith" (Ahmad, 2/201).
Some scholars interpret "the rising of the sun from the West" as meaning that Islam will appear in the West, as strong as it was in the beginning, and that the people of the West will carry the flag of Islam."

Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Vol.1,

"{Say: "Wait you! we (too) are waiting."} This is a stern threat to the disbeliever and a striking warning for those who delay their embracing of Faith and repentance until a time when neither Faith nor repentance shall avail."
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You have now heard this from Islam's top tribulation scholar and on of the top tafsir scholars of all time.

Best tafsir scholars out there would be Tafsir Al-Tabari, Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Tafsir Al-Qurtubi, and Tafsir Al-Jalalayn.

Noble Qur'an 9:52,

"Say: "Do you wait for us (anything) except one of the two best things (martyrdom or victory); while we await for you either that Allah will afflict you with a punishment from Himself or at our hands. So wait, we too are waiting with you."

See also Surah 6:158 in Post #452
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Tafsir Ibn Kathir:

"Allah, the Almighty says: {Say}, O Muhammad to them, {Do you wait for us} that something should overtake us, {except one of the two best things} i.e. martyrdom or victory over you, {while we await for you} that {either that Allah will afflict you with a punishment from Himself or at our hands) i.e. we await that you will be either taken captives or killed, {So wait, we too are waiting with you.}"

Tafsir al-Jalalayn (Feras Hamza translation):

"Say: 'Are you waiting (tarabbasun: one of the two original ta' letters [in tatarabbasun] has been omitted) for anything, to occur, for us but one of the two fair things, [the two fair] outcomes? (husnayayn is the dual form of husna, which is the feminine form of ahsan), that is, victory or martyrdom? We are waiting in your case too, for God to afflict you with a chastisement from Him, with a calamity from the heaven, or at our hands, should we be given permission to fight you. So wait, for this to [befall] us, we are also waiting with you', your end."

Islamic Jurisprudence (Fiqh):

Provisions Of The Afterlife: Which Lie Within Prophetic Guidance (translation by Ismail Abdus Salaam), pp.260-263,

Islamic Jurisprudence (Fiqh):

Provisions Of The Afterlife: Which Lie Within Prophetic Guidance (translation by Ismail Abdus Salaam), pp.260-263,

His Guidance Concerning Jihaad
"Jihaad is the peak of Islaam which grants one of the highest status in this life and the next. As for the messenger of Allaah (my Allaah send salutations upon him) , he reached the summit having engaged in all forms of jihaad. Consequently, he relied upon his heart, tongue, limbs, and sword. For this reason, he was the greatest of creation.
Allaah commanded him to engage in jihaad when he said: {if we pleased, we would send a warner to every village, so disobey the infidels and wage jihaad against them} [Al Furqaan/51-52].

This chapter was revealed in Makka. It obliged the believers to wage jihaad using the Qur'aan, and Allaah has said: {O Prophet, wage jihaad against the hypocrites and disbelievers. Their abode is hell which is the worst destination} [At Tawba/73].

It is more difficult to wage jihaad against the hypocrites than it is to wage jihaad against the believers, and the former jihaad is waged by a special group of people who are the heirs of the messengers. Although they are few, they are great to Allaah.
Since one of the greatest forms of jihaad is to speak the truth despite major opposition, the jihaad of the messengers was most complete.
Since the jihaad which is waged against the disbelievers stems from the jihaad which is waged against the soul, the former jihaad takes precedence over the latter jihaad, and the prophet (may Allaah send salutations upon him) has said: (the mujaahid is one is wages jihaad against his soul to become more obedient to Allaah, and the muhaajir is the one who abandons what he has prohibited). As a result, one who does not wage jihaad against his soul to become more obedient cannot wage jihaad against the enemy.
Jihaad cannot be waged against the aforementioned enemies until another enemy is fought, and he attempts to dissuade man from this jihaad. He is Shaytaan, and Allaah the most high has said: {Shaytaan is your enemy, so treat him as such} [Faatir/6].

The slave has been commanded to wage jihaad against these three enemies, and Allaah had granted them authority as a test for the believers. However, he has provided them with arms.
The most high has said: {We have made some of you trial for others} [Al Furqaan/20].

{We shall test you until we know which of you are patient and wage jihaad} [Muhammad/31].

He has given his slaves intellect, perception, and revelation. He is also granted them angelic support, and he has said: {I am with you} [Al Anfaal/12].

He has informed the believers that if they comply with his demand they will continue to be victorious over their enemies, and that if they are not, it is because they have been disobedient. However, he has ordered them to resume jihaad in this case, and he has informed them that he supports those who are relevant and patient.
He defends the believers in accordance with their faith. Consequently, as faith becomes stronger, so does the defense of Allaah.
Allaah has commanded the believers to wage jihad as he has commanded them to revere him, and it is waged so that the body may submit completely to Allah. Simultaneously, one fights Shaytaan by disobeying him and disregarding his promises and threats. Once this war begins, one will become capable of fighting enemies of Allaah so that his word may become uppermost.
The early believers have given various definitions of jihaad.
Ibn 'Abbaas has said: it is to act and worship as required.
'Abdullah Bin Al Mubaarak has said: it is to combat the soul and desire.
Some have thought that the two verses of jihaad and reverence enjoin what one is incapable of, though every slave is able to revere Allaah and wage jihaad as required. In fact, this obligation varies according to strength and knowledge. Consequently, what is required of one who is knowledgeable and capable is not required of one who is not, and consider how he concluded by saying: {he has chosen you and has not imposed a burden upon you} [Al Hajj/78].

In addition, the prophet (may Allaah send salutations upon him) has said: (I have been sent with monotheism and leniancy).
Allaah has allowed one to repent at any time and will accept repentance until the sun rises from the west, and he has offered various methods of expiation such as charity, good deeds, and affliction. He has also provided lawful alternatives which are more favorable and enjoyable than their unlawful counterparts. He creates difficulty as a test, though it is preceded and followed by ease. As a result, Allaah could not oblige one to act beyond his capability."

So, in other words, once the west is under siege by Islamic emigrants--which is symbolized by the sun setting on the west just as Kathir explained--it will be too late to convert to Islam. Those who do not convert before they are conquered will be slaughtered and exterminated down to last disbeliever.

Noble Qur'an 8:67,

"It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he had made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land. You desire the good of this world (i.e. the money of ransom for freeing the captives), but Allah desires (for you) he Hereafter. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise."

Now, according to tafsir scholars, this verse was abrogated to allow for prisoners. However, that provision will be abrogated by 6:158, with the setting of the sun in the west -- Islamic emigration into the west carrying the flag of Islam, influencing western culture, taking it over. Once muslims have control over the west they begin to slaughter all who are not musims and no one at this time is allowed to repent or accept Islam. This is the final caliphate which means there will be no prisoners allowed. So Qur'an 8:67 becomes active again with Islamic emigration in the west.

However, scholars that say 8:67 was abrogated do not explain why muslims are slaughtering mass populations of people today. But given the benefit of the doubt, and saying the verse is abrogate, it becomes active against with the setting of the sun in the west. Again, Kathir explains all this and he is Islam's best tribulation scholar of tafsir.

The Levels Of Jihaad
"There are four levels of jihaad: jihaad waged against the soul, jihaad waged against Shaytaan, jihaad waged against disbelievers, and jihaad waged against hypocrites.
1. One wages jihaad against his soul so that he may learn the religion of truth which is the sole source of happiness and success.
2. One wages jihaad against his soul so that he may act once he has learned. Otherwise, knowledge would be futile if not harmful.
3. One wages jihaad against the his soul so that he may teach. Otherwise, he would be like those who withhold the guidance of Allaah. Consequently, his knowledge would not save him from the punishment of Allaah,
4. One wages jihaad against his soul so that he may endure the difficulty of teaching, and he does so entirely for Allaah.
Once one has completed these four levels, he joins the ranks of those who know the truth and act accordingly.
Fighting Shaytaan
This jihaad has two levels:
1. One wages jihaad against Shaytaan to repel the doubt which he casts.
2. One wages jihaad against Shaytaan to repel his temptation.
Consequently, certainty follows the first jihaad while patience follows the second jihaad, and the most high has said: {We made some of them leaders due to their patience and certainty} [As Sajda/24].

Allaah has informed us that religion leadership is attained with patience and certainty, because patience repels lowly desires while certainty repels doubt.
Fighting The Disbelievers And Hypocrites
This jihaad has four levels:
1. the heart
2. the tongue
3. wealth
4. the body
The hand is usually used when waging jihaad against the disbelievers while the tongue is usually used when waging jihaad against the hypocrites.
Fighting Tyrants, Innovators, And Evildoers
This jihaad has three levels:
1. the hand
2. the tongue
3. the heart
The first level is the highest level.
Thirteen levels of jihaad have preceded, and the prophet (may Allaah send salutations upon him) has said: (if one dies without participating in jihaad or wishing to do so, he dies in a state of hypocrisy).
Jihaad Is Incomplete Without Migration
Jihaad is incomplete without migration and there is no jihaad or migration without faith. As for those who seek the mercy of Allaah, they neglect none of these acts. Allaah the most high has said: {those who believe, migrate, and fight seek mercy for Allaah, and he is forgiving and merciful} [Al Baqara/218]."

Provisions Of The Afterlife, p.286,

"Subsequently, Allaah enjoined war against all polytheists. In fact, analysis reveals that jihaad is an individual obligation, whether it be spiritual, monetary, verbal, or physical.
As for physical jihaad, it is a collective obligation and the truth if the matter is that monetary jihaad is also a collective obligation, because Allaah has enjoined the former and latter, and he has said: {proceed in any manner and wage jihaad with your lives and wealth for the sake of Allaah. If you only knew that this is better for you} [At Tawva/41].
Jihaad leads to paradise, and the most high has asked: {O you who believe, shall I inform you of a transaction which will spare you a painful punishment. Believe in Alaah and his messenger and wage jihaad with your lives and wealth for his sake. If you only knew that this is better for you. He will forgive you and place you in fine homes amidst the rivers of paradise. That is the greatest victory} [As Saff/10-12.
Jihaad leads to victory, and Allaah has said: {and other bounties which you will like} [As Saff/12]."

Ploughboy said:

The Levels Of Jihaad
"There are four levels of jihaad: jihaad waged against the soul, jihaad waged against Shaytaan, jihaad waged against disbelievers, and jihaad waged against hypocrites.
1. One wages jihaad against his soul so that he may learn the religion of truth which is the sole source of happiness and success.
2. One wages jihaad against his soul so that he may act once he has learned. Otherwise, knowledge would be futile if not harmful.
3. One wages jihaad against the his soul so that he may teach. Otherwise, he would be like those who withhold the guidance of Allaah. Consequently, his knowledge would not save him from the punishment of Allaah,
4. One wages jihaad against his soul so that he may endure the difficulty of teaching, and he does so entirely for Allaah.
Once one has completed these four levels, he joins the ranks of those who know the truth and act accordingly.
Fighting Shaytaan
This jihaad has two levels:
1. One wages jihaad against Shaytaan to repel the doubt which he casts.
2. One wages jihaad against Shaytaan to repel his temptation.
Consequently, certainty follows the first jihaad while patience follows the second jihaad, and the most high has said: {We made some of them leaders due to their patience and certainty} [As Sajda/24].

Allaah has informed us that religion leadership is attained with patience and certainty, because patience repels lowly desires while certainty repels doubt.
Fighting The Disbelievers And Hypocrites
This jihaad has four levels:
1. the heart
2. the tongue
3. wealth
4. the body
The hand is usually used when waging jihaad against the disbelievers while the tongue is usually used when waging jihaad against the hypocrites.
Fighting Tyrants, Innovators, And Evildoers
This jihaad has three levels:
1. the hand
2. the tongue
3. the heart
The first level is the highest level.
Thirteen levels of jihaad have preceded, and the prophet (may Allaah send salutations upon him) has said: (if one dies without participating in jihaad or wishing to do so, he dies in a state of hypocrisy).
Jihaad Is Incomplete Without Migration
Jihaad is incomplete without migration and there is no jihaad or migration without faith. As for those who seek the mercy of Allaah, they neglect none of these acts. Allaah the most high has said: {those who believe, migrate, and fight seek mercy for Allaah, and he is forgiving and merciful} [Al Baqara/218]."

Provisions Of The Afterlife, p.286,

"Subsequently, Allaah enjoined war against all polytheists. In fact, analysis reveals that jihaad is an individual obligation, whether it be spiritual, monetary, verbal, or physical.
As for physical jihaad, it is a collective obligation and the truth if the matter is that monetary jihaad is also a collective obligation, because Allaah has enjoined the former and latter, and he has said: {proceed in any manner and wage jihaad with your lives and wealth for the sake of Allaah. If you only knew that this is better for you} [At Tawva/41].
Jihaad leads to paradise, and the most high has asked: {O you who believe, shall I inform you of a transaction which will spare you a painful punishment. Believe in Alaah and his messenger and wage jihaad with your lives and wealth for his sake. If you only knew that this is better for you. He will forgive you and place you in fine homes amidst the rivers of paradise. That is the greatest victory} [As Saff/10-12.
Jihaad leads to victory, and Allaah has said: {and other bounties which you will like} [As Saff/12]."

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The Constitution protects Islam as much as it does Christianity.

Howard the Duck. You want to believe that or do you believe that? Show me where in the Constitution where citizens are not protected from mass genocide from a totalitarian death cult and you win your case. Our laws and our military is sworn to protect U.S. citizens from enemies foreign & domestic. But if you insist on defending Islam doctrine and the rights of muslims to practice sharia then you lose all right to ever speak about civil rights since civil rights mean absolutely nothing to you progressives.

Ploughboy said:

Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol.4, Book 56, Chapter 122, Hadith 2977,

(122) CHAPTER. The statement of the Prophet: I have been made victorious for a distance of one month journey with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy).
The statement of Allah:
"We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve..." (V.3:151).

2977.Narrated Abu Hurairah: Allah's Messenger said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand." Abu Hurairah added: Allah's Messenger has left the world; and now you people are bringing out those treasures (i.e., the Prophet did not benefit by them)."

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How many Muslims have tried to kill you?

Ploughboy said:

Howard the Duck. You want to believe that or do you believe that? Show me where in the Constitution where citizens are not protected from mass genocide from a totalitarian death cult and you win your case. Our laws and our military is sworn to protect U.S. citizens from enemies foreign & domestic. But if you insist on defending Islam doctrine and the rights of muslims to practice sharia then you lose all right to ever speak about civil rights since civil rights mean absolutely nothing to you progressives.

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Show me where the word "Christianity" appears in the Constitution. How about "Islam?" Instead it uses the all encompassing term "religion."

The first amendment is there, with all due respect, to protect us from people like you.

But, hey. I'm out of here. Mr Sun has raised his weary head! Rise and shine. It's a brand new day.

Have a good one.

Howard the Duck said:

Show me where the word "Christianity" appears in the Constitution. How about "Islam?" Instead it uses the all encompassing term "religion."

The first amendment is there, with all due respect, to protect us from people like you.

But, hey. I'm out of here. Mr Sun has raised his weary head! Rise and shine. It's a brand new day.

Have a good one.

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Liberals have been attacking Christian rights for as long as I can remember. But now, all the sudden, liberals are Helpers to the muslims. Evil attracts evil. Nowhere in the Constitution, Bill of Rights, or any laws of our nation are we told to tolerate an invading army which intends to slaughter every citizen right down to the last non-muslims. Islam is an act of war against all non-muslim peoples. Islam is an invasion of America and a major violation of all laws of our nation. Islam is a "war against all," which is far from being peaceful.

Noble Qur'an 48:10,

"Verily, those who give the Bai'ah (pledge) to you (O Muhammad) they are giving Bai'ah (pledge) to Allah. The Hand of Allah is over their hands. Then whosoever breaks his pledge, breaks it only to his own harm; and whosoever fulfils what he has covenanted with Allah, He will bestow on him a great reward."
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Ibn Ishaq, "The life of Muhammad" (translated by Alfred Guillaume). page 204-205, (Ishaq 299),

" 'Asim b. 'Umar b. Qatada told me that when the people came together to plight their faith to the apostle, al-'Abbas b. 'Ubada b. Nadla al-Ansai, brother of B. Salim b. 'Auf, said, 'O men of Khazzaj, do you realize to what you are committing yourselves in pledging your support to this man? It is a war against all and sundry. If you think that if you lose your property and your nobles are killed you will give him up, then do so now, for it would bring you shame in this world and the next (if you did so later); but if you think you will be loyal to your undertaking if you lose your property and your nobles are killed, then take him, for by Allah it will profit you in this world and the next.' They said they would accept the apostle on these conditions. But they asked what they would get in return for their loyalty, and the apostle promised them paradise. They said, 'Stretch forth your hand,' and when he did so they pledged their word. 'Asim added that al-'Abbas said that only to bind the obligation more securely on them. Abu Bakr said that he said it merely to keep the people back that night, hoping that 'Abdullah b.Ubayy b.Salul would come and so give more weight to his peoples support. But Allah knows best which is right."

Ibn Ishaq, p.208 (Ishaq 305),

CONDITIONS OF THE PLEDGE AT THE SECOND 'AQABA

"When Allah gave permission to Muhammad to fight, the second 'Aqaba contained conditions involving the war which were not in the first act of fealty. Now they bound themselves to a war against all and sundry for Allah and his messenger, while he promised them for faithful service thus the reward of paradise."

On a side note, it is so pathetic to see liberals defending a death cult. None of you can defend this death cult by quoting from the "scroptures" of this death cult because you know there is no defense in any of the Islam books. You can't even find a single peaceful verse in the Qur'an, besides quoting from abrogated verses that haven't applied to muslims since Muhammad's time in Medina. So it looks clear to my mind that liberals defend terrorism and will now even acknowledge that the teachings of terrorism come from the sacred books of Islam. Then you all have the gull to mishandle Scripture in the Bible by quoting from passage that no longer apply today and were only for tiny little Israel at the time. It goes to show you how little about world religions you liberals actually know. You all want anarchy and destruction to come to America. I know, because I have seen plenty of liberals online admit to it. During the election I was on Hillary's page refuting all her lies. There were lots of her faithful followers and trolls on her page. Every time I profiled one of her faithful trolls I found all kinds of communist rants and Mao like pictures of Hillary. One troll that was real active on her page defending Hillary wrote on his timeline: "America must fall." And this is the game you liberals are playing on this topic. You think you can just deny everything supplied here from Islamic books and that its all good. Terrorist attack after terrorist attack and you defend Islam but blame Christianity for everything.

This debate is over for the left You have not been able to defend Islam as a peaceful religious practice. You cannot provide one single verse from the Qur'an or Sunnah that says muslims are allowed to live peaceably on non-muslim nations. You absolutely have to defend Islam by supplying a verse -- one that is not abrogated -- from the Qur'an that teaches muslims to respect their host nation that brought them in. If you can do this than you can win this debate. If you cannot provide a verse which allows muslims not to practice jihad in America then this debate is over and liberals lost this debate.

Nickyjo said:

So what does all this mean today? Do I have a right to a trial by jury as the judge told me lo those many years ago, or not?

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The original meaning and intent was based on federalism. It has a different meaning today, and is why the country is unrepairably divided. Federalism prevents this division.

Howard the Duck said:

Show me where the word "Christianity" appears in the Constitution. How about "Islam?" Instead it uses the all encompassing term "religion."

The first amendment is there, with all due respect, to protect us from people like you.

But, hey. I'm out of here. Mr Sun has raised his weary head! Rise and shine. It's a brand new day.

Have a good one.

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Christianity may not appear, but a lot of the clauses were to protect the Protestant religion and most of the Constitution is based on the Bible.

Tennyson said:

Christianity may not appear, but a lot of the clauses were to protect the Protestant religion and most of the Constitution is based on the Bible.

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Nonsense.

Ploughboy said:

Yep. That is what the Qur'an teaches. The invasion of the west is planned out in Qur'an 6:158. I will post these verses with tafsir after responding to your post here.

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That's quite the master plan there, and would be believable if there were some kind of hive mind at work but thus far nothing supports your claim except the assumption every Muslim on the face of the planet emigrated for exactly the same reason versus the more practical ones like economic and political.

Think of it this way: If muslims are so peaceful then why are they muslims? If you want to live a peaceful existence then why not follow Christ Who commands believers to murder nobody, not even with the tongue? Why do they cling to a religion that is inherently evil? Well, much of the reason is that they cannot leave Islam or they will be killed. So many muslims are peaceful but not allowed to live peaceful lives. So its Islam that makes Islamic terrorism and those teachings run deep in Islam. But you want to dismiss the teachings of terror and pretend no muslims read nor care about what the Qur'an says. For muslims who have never read the Qur'an I encourage them to read it! Maybe then they will see that their religion is hate and leave Islam completely!

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It's fascinating how much you focus solely on religious motivation versus external factors in how people behave. If you look at the rise of Islamic fundamentalist terrorism, much of it has been in response to larger foreign policy changes in the Middle East which involve more western involvement in their affairs. The resulting conflicts have created the kind of atmosphere where these types of groups have been able to recruit people much easier because the threat of foreign invasion triggers the defense mechanism. Whether it was the Mujahideen or IS, the zealots among Muslims were able to rally more people to their cause. If we were to assume all Muslims interpreted and followed Islam the same way we would have much greater conflicts than we currently face, especially using terrorism as a tactic. To assume all Muslims are bound to commit terror because of their beliefs is like assuming all Christians will follow the teachings of Christ to the letter; clearly there are vast areas of gray for all faiths. I suppose they could just as easily follow the Buddha as well if you want this to be about following a different faith; or just drop it all together.

All sacred religious texts have meaning to those who believe. Atheists assume nothing has meaning which is why muslims so easily are able to manipulate the minds of gullible atheists who's only war is with Christians and Jews. So evil attacks evil -- more evidence that Satan exist.

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Sure, and are open to interpretation and application by the followers. As I stated before, there's a large gray area in how strictly people follow the teachings of their faith; something you see across many religions. Anecdotally, I've known people of different faiths who loosely practice their faiths while others are more devoted. As for atheists, they challenge the belief in deities as a whole and not just those of Christians and Jews.

The Qur'an needs very little interpretation. There is no prophecy in the Qur'an and tafsir scholars have already interpreted every passage in the Qur'an for you. I have cited classical tafsir scholars here but you rejected it. But Islamic scholars are like rock stars and football players in the Islamic world which is something you don't seem to understand.

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I understand clearly what you're saying, but I reject the idea that all Muslims are of the same mind for reasons I have already explained.

Finally, a sensible question. The best thing we are to do, considering all the terror attacks on western soil that have taken place, is to deport all muslims from all western nations. If you want to defeat Islamic terrorism this is the easiest way to crush the caliphate. Muslims will not attack if a nation is united against them. They know they are outnumbered in the world and, currently, outgunned. The best way to destroy Islam is to become energy independent and stop all trade to Islamic nations. This way Islam will have to rely on Islam and the people will go crazy and life will be so unbearable for such a long time that in time Islam will fade away to revolutions which will overthrow Islam and it would be no more. Because if muslims had to rely on Islam for all their needs then Islam would be no more.

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If you examine the reasons western-born Muslims have joined the IS ranks, the main reason is the conflict in the Middle East. So essentially your solution is to create an even larger conflict by uprooting people who are established in western nations (in some cases for generations) and send them all back to their ancestral countries of origin? This is absolutely preposterous. If you really want to bring about large scale violence across the world, this would be the way to do it.

Howard the Duck said:

Nonsense.

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I can list as many as you want. I will list them one at a time.

Article V's no religious test clause was to protect the Protestant religion.

Ploughboy said:

On a side note, it is so pathetic to see liberals defending a death cult. None of you can defend this death cult by quoting from the "scroptures" of this death cult because you know there is no defense in any of the Islam books. You can't even find a single peaceful verse in the Qur'an, besides quoting from abrogated verses that haven't applied to muslims since Muhammad's time in Medina. So it looks clear to my mind that liberals defend terrorism and will now even acknowledge that the teachings of terrorism come from the sacred books of Islam. Then you all have the gull to mishandle Scripture in the Bible by quoting from passage that no longer apply today and were only for tiny little Israel at the time. It goes to show you how little about world religions you liberals actually know. You all want anarchy and destruction to come to America. I know, because I have seen plenty of liberals online admit to it. During the election I was on Hillary's page refuting all her lies. There were lots of her faithful followers and trolls on her page. Every time I profiled one of her faithful trolls I found all kinds of communist rants and Mao like pictures of Hillary. One troll that was real active on her page defending Hillary wrote on his timeline: "America must fall." And this is the game you liberals are playing on this topic. You think you can just deny everything supplied here from Islamic books and that its all good. Terrorist attack after terrorist attack and you defend Islam but blame Christianity for everything.

This debate is over for the left You have not been able to defend Islam as a peaceful religious practice. You cannot provide one single verse from the Qur'an or Sunnah that says muslims are allowed to live peaceably on non-muslim nations. You absolutely have to defend Islam by supplying a verse -- one that is not abrogated -- from the Qur'an that teaches muslims to respect their host nation that brought them in. If you can do this than you can win this debate. If you cannot provide a verse which allows muslims not to practice jihad in America then this debate is over and liberals lost this debate.

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On a side note, it's pathetic to see a supposed Christian spitting on the message of Jesus by lying pathologically about innocent people.

You claimed that the mayor of London was working with terrorists earlier in this thread. Either provide evidence or retract your claim.

Your belief that ISIS' interpretation of Islam is correct is a belief rejected by 99.9% of Muslims across the world. You, not they, are the problem.

You hysterically screech "liberals" this and "liberals" that in a desperate attempt to avoid the fact that your arguments have been absolutely debunked.

zyzygy said:

https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/6-quran-quotes-teach-love-tolerance-freedom-religion/

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Qur'an 2: 208 deals solely with believers. Muslims treat each other with a great deal more respect than they treat the kafir. A kafir means a dirty unbeliever that does't deserve to life.

Qur'an 60:8 is a Mecca verse is was abrogated by the ayat of the sword. All peaceful verses from Mecca are abrogated. Here is Qur'an 60:8 in Tafsir Al-Jalalayn:

"Allah does not forbid you from being good to those unbelievers who have not fought you in the din or driven you from your homes, or from being just towards them. Thus was before the commandment to fight them in jihad. Allah loves those who are just."

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Qur'an 5:48 is about sharia law and we've seen plenty of that here. Its about muslims, not unbelievers. But had yo read one more verse you would see a threat against muslims who apostate from Islam:

Tafsir Al-Jalalayn: Qur'an 5:49

"Judge between them by what Allah has sent down and do not follow their whims and desires. And beware of them lest they lure you away and misguide you from some of what Allah has sent down to you. If they turn their backs from the revealed judgement and desire something else then know that Allah wants to afflict them -- to punish them in this world -- with some of their wrong actions which they commit, including this turning away. He will repay them for all of them in the Next World. Many of mankind are degenerate."

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Qur'an 2:205 says nothing about peace towards unbelievers. It says Allah don't like corruption. But corruption in Islam is fitnah and fitnah is disbelief.

There is no verse mentioned on this page which would make someone want to think Islam is peaceful and tolerant to non-muslims.

Tigerace117 said:

On a side note, it's pathetic to see a supposed Christian spitting on the message of Jesus by lying pathologically about innocent people. .

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I am lying about no one. We Americans have the God given right to defend our nation against all enemies foreign and domestic. We do not have to lay down and die so muslims can conquer our land. You are the one lying to yourself by rejecting the beliefs of muslims which are so very clearly hateful as well as insane! You can't even defend Islam's beliefs because they are so bad! How pathetic you liberals have become!

Tigerace117 said:

You claimed that the mayor of London was working with terrorists earlier in this thread. Either provide evidence or retract your claim. .

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Terrorist attacks in London increased when he because mayor. His reply was that Islamic terrorism was part and parcel of living in a big city. That is not even close to the truth! There are big cities all over the world and those with the smallest muslim population see little to no terrorism.

Tigerace117 said:

Your belief that ISIS' interpretation of Islam is correct is a belief rejected by 99.9% of Muslims across the world. You, not they, are the problem

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.

Well you say 99.9% of muslims have not read the Qur'an. I have read the Qur'an and the Sunnah and many other books of Islam and quoted much of it here and all you did is deny it. But a clear minded person could read all that and see nothing but Isis throughout the pages of these muslim books! Muhammad, not muslims, is the high authority of Islam. No muslim on earth, past or present, has more authority over Islam than Muhammad. So your 99.9% muslims you claim reject Isis must also reject Muhammad.

Tigerace117 said:

You hysterically screech "liberals" this and "liberals" that in a desperate attempt to avoid the fact that your arguments have been absolutely debunked.

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Debunked? How were they debunked? Your emotions debunked them? I have yet to see any of your liberals quote anything peaceful from the Qur'an that applies to non-believers!! I've done all the Qur'an and Sunnah quoting here. All you have is your opinion which is based on emotional knee jerk reactions given to you by the liberal media who has now become the party of Islam. Good luck with that onenext election :lol: Nobody wants your jihadi buddies over here.

Ploughboy said:

There is no verse mentioned on this page which would make someone want to think Islam is peaceful and tolerant to non-muslims.

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It is where I live.

Ploughboy said:

I am lying about no one. We Americans have the God given right to defend our nation against all enemies foreign and domestic. We do not have to lay down and die so muslims can conquer our land. You are the one lying to yourself by rejecting the beliefs of muslims which are so very clearly hateful as well as insane! You can't even defend Islam's beliefs because they are so bad! How pathetic you liberals have become!



Terrorist attacks in London increased when he because mayor. His reply was that Islamic terrorism was part and parcel of living in a big city. That is not even close to the truth! There are big cities all over the world and those with the smallest muslim population see little to no terrorism.

.

Well you say 99.9% of muslims have not read the Qur'an. I have read the Qur'an and the Sunnah and many other books of Islam and quoted much of it here and all you did is deny it. But a clear minded person could read all that and see nothing but Isis throughout the pages of these muslim books! Muhammad, not muslims, is the high authority of Islam. No muslim on earth, past or present, has more authority over Islam than Muhammad. So your 99.9% muslims you claim reject Isis must also reject Muhammad.



Debunked? How were they debunked? Your emotions debunked them? I have yet to see any of your liberals quote anything peaceful from the Qur'an that applies to non-believers!! I've done all the Qur'an and Sunnah quoting here. All you have is your opinion which is based on emotional knee jerk reactions given to you by the liberal media who has now become the party of Islam. Good luck with that onenext election :lol: Nobody wants your jihadi buddies over here.

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Irony meters explode.