Is Islam protected by the Constitution?

Kiwimac said:

A Muslim mayor who supports and protects all Londoners.

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Joke of the day. London suffered three major terrorist attacks in one month after electing a muslim mayor. This kind of terrorism never happened before. His excuse was that Islamic terrorism is part and parcel of living in a big city! But London never had to deal with the body parts of little girls being flung everywhere before Islamic emigrants flooded into the nation. Tokyo is a much larger city than London and not one single terrorist attack! So he does not protect non-muslim Londoners at all. The record amount of terrorist attacks happened in London while he was mayor.

He's fighting jihad against Britain as commanded by Muhammad in the Sunnah and Allah in the Qur'an. But Allah is just the sock-puppet of Muhammad so its all Muhammad's words if you want to break it down.

Ploughboy said:

So could you please show me in the Constitution and Bill of Rights where a worldview that demands the deaths of all disbelievers is legal and authorized by the Constitution?

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Well to be a BIT more honest about Islam, it also recognizes 'people of the Book' the Sons of Abraham as not infidels. The parts you rail against are directed at the pagans who occupied much of the Arabian region during the rise of Islam.

If you view European history the Muslims in Spain (Moors) got along quite well with Jews, many holding high public office- it was the conquering 'christians' who attacked and deported the Jews from 'christian' Spain.

Christians can lie under oath as well, can steal, commit adultery, do drugs, murder, and even jaywalk. All a 'good' Christian need do is pray for forgiveness and a loving GAWD forgives and you are free to do...


Islam is protected by our Constitution, the document I swore an oath to defend... eace

Ploughboy said:

Reliance of the Traveller [the book of Islamic sacred law (the sharia)],
<snip>

(1) "Fighting is prescribed for you" (Koran 2:216);
(2) " Slay them wherever you find them" (Koran 4:89);
(3) "Fight the idolators utterly" (Koran 9:36)

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I note you do not place verses in their contexts, as an example, Surah 2:216 relates specifically to the Muslim community's reaction to pagan Arabs attempting to stop them making the Hajj;

216 Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.

217 They question thee (O Muhammad) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say: Warfare therein is a great (transgression), but to turn (men) from the way of Allah, and to disbelieve in Him and in the Inviolable Place of Worship, and to expel His people thence, is a greater with Allah; for persecution is worse than killing. And they will not cease from fighting against you till they have made you renegades from your religion, if they can. And whoso becometh a renegade and dieth in his disbelief: such are they whose works have fallen both in the world and the Hereafter. Such are rightful owners of the Fire: they will abide therein.

218 Lo! those who believe, and those who emigrate (to escape the persecution) and strive in the way of Allah, these have hope of Allah's mercy. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

(The Qur'an (Pickthall tr), Sura 2 - The Cow)

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Surah 4: What a difference the verses in context are:

89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,

90 Except those who seek refuge with a people between whom and you there is a covenant, or (those who) come unto you because their hearts forbid them to make war on you or make war on their own folk. Had Allah willed He could have given them power over you so that assuredly they would have fought you. So, if they hold aloof from you and wage not war against you and offer you peace, Allah alloweth you no way against them.

(The Qur'an (Pickthall tr), Sura 4 - Women)

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Sura 9:

"...36 Lo! the number of the months with Allah is twelve months by Allah's ordinance in the day that He created the heavens and the earth. Four of them are sacred: that is the right religion. So wrong not yourselves in them. And wage war on all of the idolaters as they are waging war on all of you. And know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).

(The Qur'an (Pickthall tr), Sura 9 - Repentance)

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Ploughboy said:

Joke of the day. London suffered three major terrorist attacks in one month after electing a muslim mayor. This kind of terrorism never happened before. His excuse was that Islamic terrorism is part and parcel of living in a big city! But London never had to deal with the body parts of little girls being flung everywhere before Islamic emigrants flooded into the nation. Tokyo is a much larger city than London and not one single terrorist attack! So he does not protect non-muslim Londoners at all. The record amount of terrorist attacks happened in London while he was mayor.

He's fighting jihad against Britain as commanded by Muhammad in the Sunnah and Allah in the Qur'an. But Allah is just the sock-puppet of Muhammad so its all Muhammad's words if you want to break it down.

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Cobblers, not only has this kind of terrorism occurred before in London (forgotten the IRA, have we?) but Sadiq Khan did not say what you are trying to make him say; What he said was

"...“Part and parcel of living in a great global city is that you have got to be prepared for these things. You’ve got to be vigilant. You’ve got to support the police who do an incredibly hard job," Khan said in an interview following the bombing in the Chelsea neighborhood of Manhattan in 2016. "You’ve got to support the security services, and I think speculating when don’t know the facts is unwise.”

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Ploughboy said:

Joke of the day. London suffered three major terrorist attacks in one month after electing a muslim mayor. This kind of terrorism never happened before. His excuse was that Islamic terrorism is part and parcel of living in a big city! But London never had to deal with the body parts of little girls being flung everywhere before Islamic emigrants flooded into the nation. Tokyo is a much larger city than London and not one single terrorist attack! So he does not protect non-muslim Londoners at all. The record amount of terrorist attacks happened in London while he was mayor. He's fighting jihad against Britain as commanded by Muhammad in the Sunnah and Allah in the Qur'an. But Allah is just the sock-puppet of Muhammad so its all Muhammad's words if you want to break it down.

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You forget the IRA.

1972 Aldershot, 6 women killed by an IRA bomb
8mar 73 dozens injured in two car bombing in London
10sep 73 21 injured in car bomb attack London
18dec 73 Westminster attack 60 people injured
4dec 74 m62 coach bombed killed 9 soldiers and 3 civilians
17jul 74 Tower of London 1 killed 41 injured
18dec 74 Birmingham 21 killed 182 injured...
There are many more- you get the idea.... :roll:

Now your other disinformation-

Tokyo subway TERRORIST attack

Sarin gas attack in subway killed 13 and injured over 5,000. 1995 I do believe

You might want to consider changing your 'information' sources... eace

Kiwimac said:

No, they are not.

Taqiyya is very much misunderstood. It is a practice that was begun by the Shi'ites during an era when there was much hostilities between Shi'a and Sunni and the Shi'a were deeply persecuted. It became acceptable among the Shi'ites to profess to be Sunni when living in a Sunni Nation. Later it grew to include any instance that contributed to the growth of Shi'ism. Among the Sunni there are instances were some feel it is a forgivable sin to use Taqiyyah. Indeed the 4 Madhabs of Sunni Shariah law do recognize times when taqqiyah would not be a punishable crime those being:

Saving lives, reconciling between people, or creating love between husband and wife.

However the ruling by most scholars of Qur'anic studies and Islamic Jurisprudence are along the following lines:

" . . .We can say, without doubt that, lying is one of the most evil characteristics, of which all religions and systems of ethics warn against and which man's innate common sense (Fitrah) agrees that it is wrong. Any who possess normal chivalry and sound reason would be obliged to same the same. Truthfulness is one of the pillars on which the moral survival of the world depends. It is the foundation of praiseworthy characteristics, the foundation of prophethood, the result of taqwah. Were it not for truthfulness, the rulings of all divinely-revealed laws would collapse. Acquiring the characteristic of lying is akin to shedding one's humanity, because speaking is an exclusively human trait. (Bareeqah Mahmoodiyyah, Muhammad al-Khaadimi, 3/183 ..."

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Noble Qur'an 8:67,

"It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he had made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land. You desire the good of this world (i.e. the money of ransom for freeing the captives), but Allah desires (for you) he Hereafter. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise."

This great slaughter is not limited to Arabia. Muhammad is considered the prophet of the world and all muslims believe they have inherited all nations as their own, which is why they waltz into our nations not showing one iota of respect for our culture or customs. As I quoted in the beginning: the goal of Islam is to slaughter all disbelievers in the world until there is no disbelief left on earth and only muslims remain. That was in the Qur'an, too. So Islam teaches the believer to exterminated over 5-billion people on earth and you want to keep it legal and bring in more musliim emigrants?

Kiwimac said:

I note you do not place verses in their contexts, as an example, Surah 2:216 relates specifically to the Muslim community's reaction to pagan Arabs attempting to stop them making the Hajj;



Surah 4: What a difference the verses in context are:



Sura 9:

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Muhammad is considered the prophet of the world which means what was done in the 7th century must be emulated in all centuries. I already made that very clear in the beginning of this discussion using much more authoritative documents than you.

notquiteright said:

Well to be a BIT more honest about Islam, it also recognizes 'people of the Book' the Sons of Abraham as not infidels. The parts you rail against are directed at the pagans who occupied much of the Arabian region during the rise of Islam.

If you view European history the Muslims in Spain (Moors) got along quite well with Jews, many holding high public office- it was the conquering 'christians' who attacked and deported the Jews from 'christian' Spain.

Christians can lie under oath as well, can steal, commit adultery, do drugs, murder, and even jaywalk. All a 'good' Christian need do is pray for forgiveness and a loving GAWD forgives and you are free to do...


Islam is protected by our Constitution, the document I swore an oath to defend... eace

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Noble Qur'an 2:62,

"Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve*."

*footnote: "(V.2:62) This Verse (and Verse 5:69), mentioned in the Qur'an should not be misinterpreted by the reader as mentioned by Ibn Abbas (Tafsir At-Tabari, Vol.1, Page 323) that the provision of this Verse was abrogated by the Verse 3:85: "And whosoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter, he will be one of the losers." [i.e. after the coming of Prophet Muhammad on earth, no other religion except Islam, will be accepted from anyone]."

Noble Qur'an 2:109,

"Many of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) wish that if they could turn you away as disbelievers after you have believed, out of envy from their ownselves, even, after the truth (that Muhammad is Allah's Messenger) has become manifest unto them. But forgive and overlook, till Allah brings His Command*. Verily, Allah is Able to do all things."

*footnote: "(V.2:109) The provision of this verse has been abrogated by the (V.9:29). (Tafsir At-Tabari)"

Noble Qur'an 9:29,

"Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Noble Qur'an 5:69,

"Surely, those who believe (in the Oneness of Allah, in His Messenger Muhammad, and all that was revealed to him from Allah), and those who are the Jews and the Sabians and the Christians, --- whosoever believed in Allah and the Last Day, and worked righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." *

*footnote: "(V.5:69) This verse (V.5:69) and (Verse 2:62) should not be misinterpreted by the reader as mentioned by Ibn 'Abbas (Tafsir At-Tabari, Vol.1, Page 323) that the provision of this Verse was abrogated by the (V.3:85). And after the coming of the Prophet Muhammad, no other religion except Islam will be accepted from anyone."

RabidAlpaca said:

I'm am atheist that wants to persecute the religious but can't because of the Constitution. If you want to throw that out for some religions you're going to have to throw it out for all religions. You and Muslims have a lot more in common than I have with either of you.

If you'd like to just get rid of all religious protections and see how it goes, I'm game. Please do, I can't wait to start persecuting Christians for their beliefs like you want to persecute Muslims.



The Bible says Christians should bash in the skulls of homosexuals and other sinners. How can we allow such an evil and violent religion to exist in the US? They must be destroyed.

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While I agree that this is a stupid thread and that the constitution protects all religions (including Islam), the bolded statement is incorrect. Maybe if you had said it tells Jews to do so as it is likely some Old Testament scripture that you will point to, but as far as Christians go, Jesus set the example that Christians should strive to achieve and his teachings was that of tolerance because an individual's sin was between them and God. I'm sure you have heard the passages talking about "Judge not lest ye be judged" and "let he that is without sin cast the first stone", this flat out contradicts your statement.

Nap said:

While I agree that this is a stupid thread and that the constitution protects all religions (including Islam), the bolded statement is incorrect. Maybe if you had said it tells Jews to do so as it is likely some Old Testament scripture that you will point to, but as far as Christians go, Jesus set the example that Christians should strive to achieve and his teachings was that of tolerance because an individual's sin was between them and God. I'm sure you have heard the passages talking about "Judge not lest ye be judged" and "let he that is without sin cast the first stone", this flat out contradicts your statement.

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The bold statement does not exist. No reference can be found. I quoted from the top authorities of Islam from all books translated and published by muslims themselves. The war of the Jews were isolated in Israel only which is clearly observed just by reading the Torah. The books of Islam, however, are not restricted to Arabia -- as 54 Islamic nations are proof of that.

Ploughboy said:

The topic of this discussion is whether or not Islam is protected by the Constitution.

Muslims do not like our way of life and come here to change our way of life into their way of life. They do not respect our laws and the Qur'an and Sunnah does not teach muslims to respect the laws of the kafir. They come here to murder us which is why this topic should lead to some very interesting discussion.

I will quote from the Qur'an, Sunnah, and Tafsir (the interpretation of the Qur'an) to make my case that Islam is sedition to the Constitution.

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Having a religious belief is protected and practicing that belief within the laws of our country is as well.

Nap said:

While I agree that this is a stupid thread and that the constitution protects all religions (including Islam), the bolded statement is incorrect. Maybe if you had said it tells Jews to do so as it is likely some Old Testament scripture that you will point to, but as far as Christians go, Jesus set the example that Christians should strive to achieve and his teachings was that of tolerance because an individual's sin was between them and God. I'm sure you have heard the passages talking about "Judge not lest ye be judged" and "let he that is without sin cast the first stone", this flat out contradicts your statement.

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Yes, I know there are many contradictory things in the Bible. As long as Christians are quoting the Old Testament when they persecute gays I'm going to quote the Old Testament in pointing out their hypocrisy. I'm just pointing out there's just as much horrible, violent garbage in the Bible as there is in the Quran.

Ploughboy said:

The bold statement does not exist. No reference can be found. I quoted from the top authorities of Islam from all books translated and published by muslims themselves. The war of the Jews were isolated in Israel only which is clearly observed just by reading the Torah. The books of Islam, however, are not restricted to Arabia -- as 54 Islamic nations are proof of that.

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If you don't let the Muslims pick and choose which parts of their holy book still apply, you don't get to either. Yes, the quote exists, you just reject it because it's violent nonsense.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

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The main thing immigrants bring with them is their language, which English in particular, absorbs and makes it's own, and their food.

Ploughboy said:

The topic of this discussion is whether or not Islam is protected by the Constitution.

Muslims do not like our way of life and come here to change our way of life into their way of life. They do not respect our laws and the Qur'an and Sunnah does not teach muslims to respect the laws of the kafir. They come here to murder us which is why this topic should lead to some very interesting discussion.

I will quote from the Qur'an, Sunnah, and Tafsir (the interpretation of the Qur'an) to make my case that Islam is sedition to the Constitution.

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They have every right to practice their religion -- they do not have a right to break our laws. But those are two very different things.

RabidAlpaca said:

Yes, I know there are many contradictory things in the Bible. As long as Christians are quoting the Old Testament when they persecute gays I'm going to quote the Old Testament in pointing out their hypocrisy. I'm just pointing out there's just as much horrible, violent garbage in the Bible as there is in the Quran.

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The Bible isn't nowhere near as violent and perverse as the Qur'an and Sunnah--that I can assure you! True, there were bloody wars fought in the OT but those wars were fought over tiny Israel....a country the size of the state of New Hampshire. Islam is a "war against all" and did it end with Muhammad conquering Arabia? No. So 53 conquered nations later you have the gull to say the wars of Islam were just for Arabia! Come on, give me a break! Qur'an 6:158 is about conquering the west. That includes the United States.

Noble Qur'an 6:158,

"Do they then wait for anything other than that the angels should come to them, or that your Lord (Allah) should come, or that some of the Signs of your Lord should come [i.e., portents of the Hour e.g., rising of the sun from the west)! The day that some of the Signs of your Lord do come; no good will it do to a person to believe then, if he believed not before, nor earned good (by performing deeds of righteousness) through his Faith. Say: "Wait you! we (too) are waiting." *

*footnote: "(V.6:158):
A) Narrated Abu Hurairah: Allah's Messenger said, "The Hour will not be established until the sun rises from the west; and when the people see it, then whoever will be living on the surface of the earth will have Faith, and that is (the time) when no good will it do to a person to believe then, if he believed not before." (V.6:158) (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol.6, Hadith No.159)."
B) Narrated Abu Hurairah: Allah's Messenger said, "When the following three signs appear, no good will it do to a person to believe then if he believed not before:
1) Rising of the sun from the west.
2) (The coming of Al-Masih) Ad-Dajjal.
3) (The coming out of the) Dabbat-ul-Ard (i.e. a beast from the earth)."
C) Narrated Anas: The Prophet said, "No Prophet was sent but that he warned his followers against the One-eyed liar (Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal). Beware! He is blind in one eye, and your Lord is not so, and there will be written between his (Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal's) eyes (the word) Kafir (i.e., disbeliever)." [This Hadith is also quoted by Abu Hurairah and Ibn 'Abbas. (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol.9, Hadith No.245)]"
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From the book: The Signs Before The Day Of Judgement, Ibn Kathir, pp.86,87

"No good will it do to a soul to believe in them then, if it believed not before nor earned righteousness through its faith" (Ahmad, 2/201).
Some scholars interpret "the rising of the sun from the West" as meaning that Islam will appear in the West, as strong as it was in the beginning, and that the people of the West will carry the flag of Islam."

Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Vol.1,

"{Say: "Wait you! we (too) are waiting."} This is a stern threat to the disbeliever and a striking warning for those who delay their embracing of Faith and repentance until a time when neither Faith nor repentance shall avail."

Ploughboy said:

The topic of this discussion is whether or not Islam is protected by the Constitution.

Muslims do not like our way of life and come here to change our way of life into their way of life. They do not respect our laws and the Qur'an and Sunnah does not teach muslims to respect the laws of the kafir. They come here to murder us which is why this topic should lead to some very interesting discussion.

I will quote from the Qur'an, Sunnah, and Tafsir (the interpretation of the Qur'an) to make my case that Islam is sedition to the Constitution.

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Islam and our constitution are incompatible. While I believe that under our constitution, we have a freedom of religion, and muslims shall be allowed to practice their religion, there is a wide chasm between the beliefs of islam and much of what the constitution stands for.

itsforthekids said:

Islam and our constitution are incompatible. While I believe that under our constitution, we have a freedom of religion, and muslims shall be allowed to practice their religion, there is a wide chasm between the beliefs of islam and much of what the constitution stands for.

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I agree with everything you said but highly question their right to practice their political Islam here because its practice involves mass murder and that is waaaay illegal here in the States.

Ploughboy said:

I agree with everything you said but highly question their right to practice their political Islam here because its practice involves mass murder and that is waaaay illegal here in the States.

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Where are they practicing mass murder as part of their religion, here in the States?

Racism is also a problem in the west now. Muhammad was a white skinhead who owned black slaves and murdered Jews. Is this somehow good practice in America? Here is the proof Muhammad was white:

Sahih Bukhari, Vol.1, Book 3 (The Book of Knowledge), hadith 63,

"Narrated Anas bin Malik: While we were sitting with the Prophet in the mosque, a man came riding on a camel. He made his camel kneel down in the mosque, tied its foreleg and then said: "Who amongst you is Muhammad?" At that time the Prophet was sitting amongst (his companions) leaning on his arm. We replied, "This white man reclining on his arm."

Sahih Muslim, Vol.6, Book 43, Chapter 28, hadith 6071

"Chapter 28. The Prophet
Was White With An Elegant
Face
[6071] 98 - (2340) It was
narrated from Al-JurairI from
Abü At-Tufail: "I said to him:
'Did you see the Messenger of
Allah? He said: 'Yes, he was
white with an elegant face."
Muslim bin Al-Hajjâj said: Abü
At-Tufail died in 100 AH, and he
was the last of the Companions
of the Messenger of Allah, to
die."
=======================================================
Muhammad owned black slaves which he called animals,

Sunan An-Nasa'i, Vol.5, Book 44, Chapter 66, hadith 4625

"Chapter 66. Selling Animals
For Animals Of Different
Amounts Or Quality, Hand To
Hand
4625. It was narrated that Jabir
said: "A slave came and gave his
pledge to the Messenger of Allah
to emigrate, and the Prophet
did not realize that he was a slave.
Then his master came looking for
him. The Prophet said: "Sell him
to me.' So he bought him for two
black slaves, then he did not accept
the pledge of anyone after that
until he had asked: 'Is he a slave?"
(Sahih)

He said the devil looks like a black man,

Ibn Ishaq "The life of Muhammad" (The Sira), p.243,

"...the apostle said, 'Whoever wants to see Satan let him take a look at Nabtal b. al-Harith! He was a sturdy black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes, and dark ruddy cheeks."
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He demands the death of all Jews,

Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol.4, Book 56, Chapter 94, Hadith 2925,

"(94) CHAPTER. Fighting against the Jews.
2925. Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Messenger said, "You (Muslims) will fight against the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e., slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol.4, Book 56, Hadith 2926,

"Narrated Abu Hurairah: Allah's Messenger said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight against the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be behind will say, 'O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.' "
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Muslims are all supposed to follow his example just like Christians are to follow the example of Christ,

Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol.1, Book 2, Chapter 8, hadith 15,

"Narrated Anas: The Prophet said, "None of you will have faith till he loves me more than his father, his children and all mankind."

Noble Qur'an 3:31,

"Say (O Muhammad to mankind): "If you (really) love Allah then follow me (i.e. accept Islamic Monotheism, follow the Quran and the Sunnah), Allah will love you and forgive you of your sins. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

Ploughboy said:

The Bible isn't nowhere near as violent and perverse as the Qur'an and Sunnah--that I can assure you! True, there were bloody wars fought in the OT but those wars were fought over tiny Israel....a country the size of the state of New Hampshire. Islam is a "war against all" and did it end with Muhammad conquering Arabia? No. So 53 conquered nations later you have the gull to say the wars of Islam were just for Arabia! Come on, give me a break! Qur'an 6:158 is about conquering the west. That includes the United States.

Noble Qur'an 6:158,

"Do they then wait for anything other than that the angels should come to them, or that your Lord (Allah) should come, or that some of the Signs of your Lord should come [i.e., portents of the Hour e.g., rising of the sun from the west)! The day that some of the Signs of your Lord do come; no good will it do to a person to believe then, if he believed not before, nor earned good (by performing deeds of righteousness) through his Faith. Say: "Wait you! we (too) are waiting." *

*footnote: "(V.6:158):
A) Narrated Abu Hurairah: Allah's Messenger said, "The Hour will not be established until the sun rises from the west; and when the people see it, then whoever will be living on the surface of the earth will have Faith, and that is (the time) when no good will it do to a person to believe then, if he believed not before." (V.6:158) (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol.6, Hadith No.159)."
B) Narrated Abu Hurairah: Allah's Messenger said, "When the following three signs appear, no good will it do to a person to believe then if he believed not before:
1) Rising of the sun from the west.
2) (The coming of Al-Masih) Ad-Dajjal.
3) (The coming out of the) Dabbat-ul-Ard (i.e. a beast from the earth)."
C) Narrated Anas: The Prophet said, "No Prophet was sent but that he warned his followers against the One-eyed liar (Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal). Beware! He is blind in one eye, and your Lord is not so, and there will be written between his (Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal's) eyes (the word) Kafir (i.e., disbeliever)." [This Hadith is also quoted by Abu Hurairah and Ibn 'Abbas. (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol.9, Hadith No.245)]"
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From the book: The Signs Before The Day Of Judgement, Ibn Kathir, pp.86,87

"No good will it do to a soul to believe in them then, if it believed not before nor earned righteousness through its faith" (Ahmad, 2/201).
Some scholars interpret "the rising of the sun from the West" as meaning that Islam will appear in the West, as strong as it was in the beginning, and that the people of the West will carry the flag of Islam."

Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Vol.1,

"{Say: "Wait you! we (too) are waiting."} This is a stern threat to the disbeliever and a striking warning for those who delay their embracing of Faith and repentance until a time when neither Faith nor repentance shall avail."

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Nobody really gives a **** about your little Quran quotes. Both holy books are jam packed with calls for horrible violence and both are completely incompatible with modern American society. If you want to destroy religious protections, you Christians will be the first the atheists come for.

Muhammad was a cold blooded psychopathic killer who raised an army of now over a billion serial killers,

Ash Shifa (Aisha Bewley translation):

Part 4, Chapter 1, Section 1, p.376

"Habib ibn Rabi' al-Qarawi said that the school of Malik and his companions is that anyone who says anything disparaging about the Prophet is killed without being asked to repent.
Ibn ' Attab said that the Book of Sunna require that someone who intends to even slightly harm or disparage the Prophet, either by allusion or clear statement, must be killed."

Part 4, Chapter 1, Section 2, p.376

SECTION 2
The Proof of the necessity of killing anyone who curses the Prophet or finds fault with him

"The Qur'an says that Allah curses the one who harms the Prophet in this world and He connected harm of Himself to harm of the Prophet. There is no dispute that anyone who curses Allah is killed and that his curse demands that he be categorized as an unbeliever. The judgement of the unbeliever is that he is killed."

Section 2, continued..p.378

"Similarly on the Day of Conquest, he ordered the killing of Ibn Khatal and his two slavegirls who used to sing his curses on the Prophet."

Section 2, continued..pp.378-379

"Abdu'r-Razzaq mentioned that a man cursed the Prophet, causing the Prophet to say, "Who will save me from my enemy?" Az-Zubayr said, "I will." He sent az-Zubayr and he killed him.
It is related that a woman used to curse the Prophet and he said, "Who will save me from my enemy?" Khalid ibn al-Walid went out and killed her.
It is related that a man forged lies against the Prophet and he sent 'Ali and az-Zubayr to kill him.
Ibn Qani' related that a man came to the Prophet and said, "Messenger of Allah, I heard my father say something ugly about you, so I killed him," and that did not distress the Prophet.
Al-Mujahir ibn Umayya, the Amir of Yemen, reported to Abu Bakr that a woman there in the time of Ridda chanted curses against the Prophet, so he cut off her hand and pulled out her front teeth. When Abu Bakr heard that, he said to him, "If you had not done what you already did, I would have commanded you to kill her because the hadd regarding the Prophet is not like the hadd regarding others."
Ibn 'Abbas said that a woman from Khatma satirised the Prophet and the Prophet said, "Who will deal with her for me?" A man from her people said, "I will, Messenger of Allah." The man got up and went and killed her. He told the Prophet, "Two goats will not lock horns over her."
Ibn 'Abbas said that a blind man has an umm walad who used to curse the Prophet. He scolded her and restrained her, but she would not be restrained. That night she began to attack and revile the Prophet, so he killed her. He told the Prophet about that and he said he has shed her blood with impunity."

Part Four, Chapter 1, Section 5, p.387,

"Muhammad ibn Sahnun said, "Anyone who doubts a single letter which Muhammad, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, brought, is a denying unbeliever."
He said that the judgement against anyone who rejects the Prophet is that he is killed.
Ahmad ibn Sulayman, Sahnun's companion, said that whoever says that the Prophet was black is killed. The Prophet was not black.
Abu 'Uthman al-Haddad said something similar and said that if someone said the Prophet died before his beard began to grow or that he was in Tahart (Morocco) and not Tihama, he is killed because this constitutes denial.
Habib ibn ar-Rabi said that it is disbelief to alter his description and its details. The one who does that openly is an unbeliever. He is asked to repent. The one who conceals it is a heretic and is killed without being asked to repent."

Ploughboy said:

The topic of this discussion is whether or not Islam is protected by the Constitution.

Muslims do not like our way of life and come here to change our way of life into their way of life. They do not respect our laws and the Qur'an and Sunnah does not teach muslims to respect the laws of the kafir. They come here to murder us which is why this topic should lead to some very interesting discussion.

I will quote from the Qur'an, Sunnah, and Tafsir (the interpretation of the Qur'an) to make my case that Islam is sedition to the Constitution.

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People who immigrate to the US and seek citizenship are expected to pledge allegiance to the Constitution and even to take up arms in defense of the United States. I don't accept the premise that a non-Muslim can read the Koran and tell people what it implies in terms of how Muslims think they ought to act. If you want to know what a religion requires of a believer then ask a believer. Right now we have millions of Muslims who live and work productively and peacefully in the US. That ought to tell us what they think their belief requires of them.

Ploughboy said:

I agree with everything you said but highly question their right to practice their political Islam here because its practice involves mass murder and that is waaaay illegal here in the States.

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They can't practice the radical part of islam under our constitution, but prayer, observance of holidays, etc are okay.

RabidAlpaca said:

Nobody really gives a **** about your little Quran quotes. Both holy books are jam packed with calls for horrible violence and both are completely incompatible with modern American society. If you want to destroy religious protections, you Christians will be the first the atheists come for.

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Yes, just like Stalin went for the Kulaks.

RabidAlpaca said:

Nobody really gives a **** about your little Quran quotes. Both holy books are jam packed with calls for horrible violence and both are completely incompatible with modern American society. If you want to destroy religious protections, you Christians will be the first the atheists come for.

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Oh, atheists have been attacking us for decades and look where it got you: Islam! Europe is the decay of the world this rot begins with the lawlessness of atheism which brought Europe an Islamic invasion. But we Christians already know what you believe. Had Hillary won many of us would be arrested and eventually we'd be exterminated just like Hitler did to the Jews. Atheism is a mania to the mind.