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US Christians seek legal advantage over the rest.

jmotivator said:
"The Christians". Still painting with a broad brush, eh? And no, I think you as incapable of reading the minds of "The Christians" as you are at mind reading with anyone else.

And what Mulligan? You realize that the rumors of Clinton's infidelities were well know before his 1992 run, right? And you realize he was elected twice? He split the protestant vote in 1992, and won the Catholic vote in 1992 and 1996 by 12 points and 20 points respectively (source). So your premise is broken nonsense built of your own set of bigotries and not backed up by the data.

And, by the way, if you are planning to blame the 1996 Protestant vote on infidelity rumors don't bother. The Lewinski scandal broke in 1998, well after that.
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You are right, we should never paint with a broad brush like "all evangelicals", "all Catholics", or even "all Mexicans", or "all Muslims". Are you OK with Trump doing that with the latter groups? You disagree with him that they are all murderers, rapists, terrorists, etc... such that all travel from any entire nations with such groups should be banned?

But as far as the leadership of these groups: Liberty University President Jerry Falwell Jr. has gone so far to call Trump evangelicals' “dream president.”

Christian Broadcasting Network Chairman Pat Robertson once accused Clinton of turning the Oval Office into a “playpen for the sexual freedom of the poster child of the 1960s” and called the president a “debauched, debased and defamed” leader. It wasn't because he lied under oath.

But in an interview with Trump in July 2017, Robertson told the president, “I'm so proud of everything you're doing. I appreciate so much what you're doing. By the way, the evangelicals of America voted 83 percent in the last election for you. And I want you to know there are thousands and thousands of people praying for you all the time."
 
jmotivator said:
The fact is I wouldn't support them for a whole host of reasons that have nothing to do with how good of a Christian I thought they were.
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Well you wouldn't support a Democrat.

But if a Democrat with The same moral record as Trump were to run, you'd be the first to crow about his "moral shortcomings." Many of these Christians who suddenly don't care about Trump's character were the ones bringing up the "character issue" when it was Bill Clinton.

They're not Christians. They are Republicans first.
 
rocket88 said:
Well you wouldn't support a Democrat.

But if a Democrat with The same moral record as Trump were to run, you'd be the first to crow about his "moral shortcomings." Many of these Christians who suddenly don't care about Trump's character were the ones bringing up the "character issue" when it was Bill Clinton.

They're not Christians. They are Republicans first.
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No, I wouldn't. The rest of your BS assumptions are, well, BS.
 
ataraxia said:
You are right, we should never paint with a broad brush like "all evangelicals", "all Catholics", or even "all Mexicans", or "all Muslims". Are you OK with Trump doing that with the latter groups?
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Since Trump didn't, I'm not sure what your point is.

You disagree with him that they are all murderers, rapists, terrorists, etc... such that all travel from any entire nations with such groups should be banned?
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He never claimed that they are all murderers and rapists. He certainly said that about MS-13... but then that is because they are all murderers and rapists.

But as far as the leadership of these groups: Liberty University President Jerry Falwell Jr. has gone so far to call Trump evangelicals' “dream president.”
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For free expression of religious beliefs he's a lot better than his predecessor.

Christian Broadcasting Network Chairman Pat Robertson once accused Clinton of turning the Oval Office into a “playpen for the sexual freedom of the poster child of the 1960s” and called the president a “debauched, debased and defamed” leader. It wasn't because he lied under oath.
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Pat Robertson is also not why he was impeached.

But in an interview with Trump in July 2017, Robertson told the president, “I'm so proud of everything you're doing. I appreciate so much what you're doing. By the way, the evangelicals of America voted 83 percent in the last election for you. And I want you to know there are thousands and thousands of people praying for you all the time."
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How is that a counter argument to anything I said? I've said before, nobody elected Trump for Sainthood, Christians voted for Trump partly because they saw their religious liberties evaporating under Obama and had no reason to expect better from Hillary. They took a chance that Trump would not be the authoritarian that Obama was, and it paid off.
 
Had it not been for Christianity you would not have a Constitution or Bill of Rights. Modern civilization would not even exist. Christians established everything from modern medicine, the building of the first hospitals, modern science, air travel (as prophesied in Isaiah 60:8), music & vocal theory, and so many other feats impossible to achieve without moral discipline.
 
Ploughboy said:
Had it not been for Christianity you would not have a Constitution or Bill of Rights. Modern civilization would not even exist. Christians established everything from modern medicine, the building of the first hospitals, modern science, air travel (as prophesied in Isaiah 60:8), music & vocal theory, and so many other feats impossible to achieve without moral discipline.
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Probably wouldn't have had that little "incident" we call the inquisition either.....
 
I know all about the history of the Inquisition. Yes it was a sad time in Christian history. But not nearly as sad as the times we live in today! Atheists got big mouths on them and are often too cocky in their rhetoric for their own good, especially when they have nothing good to show for a century of atheism. I can scientifically discredit evolution theory in one word: Europe!

All we need to do is look at Europe and see the tragedy playing out over there and we know for certain that mankind cannot live by secular humanism. For Europe is falling to Islam and its because of the secular-progressives and their antichrist agenda. The future of Europe looks real ugly, even horrifying. Europe teaches us that separating our nation from Christ leads to death just as Scripture warned us it would. Europe used to be a great place before the secular-progressives destroyed it---and it is being utterly destroyed! So atheism most miserably failed Europe just as its failing America and every other nation. But it does say in Scripture that Satan will lay low the nations. Every nation that departs their soul from God will collapse under the weight of their sins.

Europe is the best proof there is no evolution. Atheists have had control over Europe for a long time and now Europe is falling.
 
Ploughboy said:
Had it not been for Christianity you would not have a Constitution or Bill of Rights. Modern civilization would not even exist. Christians established everything from modern medicine, the building of the first hospitals, modern science, air travel (as prophesied in Isaiah 60:8), music & vocal theory, and so many other feats impossible to achieve without moral discipline.
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Man !! You have really drank the kool aid, first of all this country, The United States of America, was not founded upon Christianity. John Adams “The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” You do know who John Adams was, correct? This from Thomas Jefferson in an April 11, 1823, letter to John Adams: The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. ... But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding...., does this sound like a person that is hung up on Christianity?

We are not now, nor have we ever been, a Christian nation. Our founding fathers explicitly and clearly excluded any reference to “God” or “the Almighty” or any euphemism for a higher power in the Constitution. Not one time is the word “god” mentioned in our founding document, the Constitution of the United States.

Anybody who ignorantly insists that our nation is founded on Christian ideals need only look at the four most important documents from our early history — the Declaration of Independence, the Articles of Confederation, the Federalist Papers and the Constitution — to disprove that ridiculous religious bias. All four documents unambiguously prove our secular origins.

The Declaration of Independence does not say that government are form by the grace of God, but it states “to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Only four times is there any reference at all to higher powers, “Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God,” “Supreme Judge of the world,” “their Creator,” and “divine Providence” and in all four cases the references to a higher power appeal to the idea of inherent human dignity, never implying a role for a god in government.

The Articles of Confederation only mentions Great Governor of the World, but this was in the introduction, like addressing a group of people. There is no mention of a God in the governing of the country.

In the U.S. Constitution it makes zero reference to a god or Christianity, in fact the only mention of religion in the Constitution is in the 1st amendment and in Article VI, where it state the no religious test will be given for appointment to an office.

So you see, you claim that our government was founded do to Christianity kind of falls flat on its face. We are no more a Christian nation than we are a Buddhist nation or an Islamic nation or a Hindu nation, we are a secular nation.
 
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jmotivator said:
"These same Christians"? :roll:

Clinton wasn't impeached for an affair, he was impeached for lying under oath.



No contradictions on my part, I can't speak to your personal stereotype of Christians, though.
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You know there were a lot of hypocrites (Gingrich) who made hay of the affair. He lied ABOUT the affair. Clinton isn't known as the lying president, he's known as the cigar *****, cheating on his wife president.

How strange that all of that venom from the right is absent when Trump lies, cheats and steals. The sex stuff is as glaring a hypocrisy as the lying.
 
Ploughboy said:
I know all about the history of the Inquisition. Yes it was a sad time in Christian history. But not nearly as sad as the times we live in today! Atheists got big mouths on them and are often too cocky in their rhetoric for their own good, especially when they have nothing good to show for a century of atheism. I can scientifically discredit evolution theory in one word: Europe!

All we need to do is look at Europe and see the tragedy playing out over there and we know for certain that mankind cannot live by secular humanism. For Europe is falling to Islam and its because of the secular-progressives and their antichrist agenda. The future of Europe looks real ugly, even horrifying. Europe teaches us that separating our nation from Christ leads to death just as Scripture warned us it would. Europe used to be a great place before the secular-progressives destroyed it---and it is being utterly destroyed! So atheism most miserably failed Europe just as its failing America and every other nation. But it does say in Scripture that Satan will lay low the nations. Every nation that departs their soul from God will collapse under the weight of their sins.

Europe is the best proof there is no evolution. Atheists have had control over Europe for a long time and now Europe is falling.
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So, in your infinite Christian ignorance, you're blaming atheists for Muslim idiocy? I guess we caused the inquisition too by not murdering the Catholic clergy. Good lesson there, pal. Brilliant logic.

Has it occurred to you that Islam and Christianity are equally dumb and incompatible with liberty and democracy. That's MY take away.
 
D_NATURED said:
You know there were a lot of hypocrites (Gingrich) who made hay of the affair. He lied ABOUT the affair. Clinton isn't known as the lying president, he's known as the cigar *****, cheating on his wife president.

How strange that all of that venom from the right is absent when Trump lies, cheats and steals. The sex stuff is as glaring a hypocrisy as the lying.
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He's known as the president who lied under oath and has been accused of violent sexual assault. The Lewinsky story only got pulled into a sexual assault case because the reported behavior matched those reported by the accuser.
 
jmotivator said:
He's known as the president who lied under oath and has been accused of violent sexual assault. The Lewinsky story only got pulled into a sexual assault case because the reported behavior matched those reported by the accuser.
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It wasn't a sexual assault case, it was a perjury case because Clinton lied under oath. Lewinsky was not a child, she participated willingly. She now realizes the power differential that existed, which made the relationship inherently wrong. Clinton took advantage of his power but he didn't violently assault Lewinsky.

But, alas, Clinton was the big, fat womanizer of the nineties. We have a bigger, fatter, orange-er one now. And, he's a notorious, undisputed predator toward young women. He is a shameless fascist and practices a patronizing brand of Christianity that only arrogant fools in the evangelical movement could lap up. I don't know what "other" issues can make you overlook his behavior but you must have to breathe very shallow not to whiff the bull****.
 
D_NATURED said:
It wasn't a sexual assault case, it was a perjury case because Clinton lied under oath. Lewinsky was not a child, she participated willingly. She now realizes the power differential that existed, which made the relationship inherently wrong. Clinton took advantage of his power but he didn't violently assault Lewinsky.
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The case for impeachment was for perjury. The case that he perjured himself on was a lawsuit against him for sexual assault.
 
cuban smokes said:
ALL of these churches are white; there are NO blacks in these churches

MAWA ................ Make America White Again ...........
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You may well have a point.

Why do you think only white churches are on the march for power?
 
Kiwimac said:
These are civil courts in the same way that there are Jewish courts. They are by agreement only between the affected folk.
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They deal largely with marriage and family matters. Muslim women are at a disadvantage in Sharia courts and it is almost impossible for them to resist community pressure to appear before Sharia courts. For example women are told that if they refuse Sharia they are no longer Muslims and will be regarded as having committed apostasy.
 
Sweden said:
They deal largely with marriage and family matters. Muslim women are at a disadvantage in Sharia courts and it is almost impossible for them to resist community pressure to appear before Sharia courts. For example women are told that if they refuse Sharia they are no longer Muslims and will be regarded as having committed apostasy.
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I'm sure you can find a non-biased source for that.
 
jmotivator said:
"These same Christians"? :roll:

Clinton wasn't impeached for an affair, he was impeached for lying under oath.



No contradictions on my part, I can't speak to your personal stereotype of Christians, though.
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Oh, no, no. Don't confuse the technical offense for his impeachment with the long-argued (and very correct) moral offense argued by the Christian right...

- Jim Bakker: Christian televangelist who was discovered to have paid hush money to Jessica Hahn, his secretary, for alleged rape in 1988. Along with embezzlement, it was the moral issue that had Christians throughout he country calling for his head. Jerry Falwell called him a sexual deviant and "the greatest scab and cancer on the face of Christianity in 2,000 years of church history." Bakker's conduct led to his resignation from the ministry.

- Jimmy Swaggart: Christian televangelist who was mired in sex scandals with prostitutes in the late 1980s and early 1990s. The Christian outrage across the nation led to his publicly apologizing on national TV with his blubbering "I Have Sinned" speech. It didn't matter. His behavior led to his defrocking.

- Bill Clinton: One can go ahead and argue of the political motivation involved in 1999, but there is no denying that Christian conservatives came to the issue with the same moral lens that was used against Bakker and Swaggart. Liberals, especially feminists who moved to defend Clinton, never had an argument that Republicans were merely politicizing this scandal. He, like Bakker and Swaggart, was a cheat and a liar who betrayed Christian ethics and family values. Clinton was ultimately busted for lying to Congress, but the argument all alng was about his moral depravity.


So when somebody say's something like "these same Christians," he/she is alluding to the history of what Christian conservatives used to be. Today, enough of them swoon for Donald Trump, despite being a professed deviant with a checkbook, and enough of them actually sought to avoid Roy Moore's crap in order to get him elected. Integrity is everything. Despite the one church placing Jesus & Co. behind a fence to show a support for keeping families together, Christian conservatives are generally not doing a very good job defending their religion by consistently erring on the side of Trumpism fever. THIS...is what we are seeing today....

Trump and Jesus.jpg
 
Ploughboy said:
I know all about the history of the Inquisition. Yes it was a sad time in Christian history. But not nearly as sad as the times we live in today! Atheists got big mouths on them and are often too cocky in their rhetoric for their own good, especially when they have nothing good to show for a century of atheism. I can scientifically discredit evolution theory in one word: Europe!
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Oh wow. Do you have any idea who you sound like? Do you know what the Islamic Revival is?

Islamic Modernists: By the end of the nineteenth century, Islamic modernists had developed their generally common held theory on why the Muslim world had become so vulnerable and subjugated. Instead of blaming foreign powers for their European strengths, Islamic modernists looked inward to explain the weakened condition of Muslim societies that left them vulnerable. For these philosophers, Khan (Indian), al-Afghani (Iranian), and Abduh (Egyptian), Muslim societies created their own weakened condition because religious leaders had encouraged Islam to become stagnate, which denied Muslims their ability to be unified against external threats. The ulema had shut Islam down at the end of Islam's Golden Age, around the time that Europe was emerging from the Dark Ages. Islamic modernists began insisting that a return to original Islamic form also meant the ability to reinterpret the sources to suit the needs of the modern age. If Muslims returned to the origin of “true Islam,” when the religion encouraged philosophical exploration and harmony with the natural sciences, they could unify under a strength that would allow them to rise and meet Western imperialism on even ground.

Islamists: From this awareness emerged a new movement that presented a greater moralistic emphasis on Islamic Revivalism. Given the condition of the world in the early twentieth-century, Islamic revivalists, Rida, al-Banna, Qutb (all Egyptian), began to believe that Islamic society had to provide an alternative to nationalism, capitalism, and socialism. They began to introduce their ideas through Islamism, a political movement that favors reordering government and society in accordance with God’s Sacred Law or Sharia. As such, Islamists began to present Islam to the masses as a moralistic and comprehensive blueprint that affected every aspect of life. The new-twentieth century Islamists agreed with their modernist counterparts that Muslim society needed to adopt the West’s advances in science and technology. However, Islamists began to fashion the modernist philosophy more towards the earlier Islamist philosophies of Ibn Taymiyyah (1263-1328) and Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab (1703-1792), who both advocated a return to Islamic purity under the Salaf. For the new Islamists, an ideological return to the Salaf was less about reason and much more about creating an Islamic state. For the Islamists, this was "true Islam."

Now, over in Iran, a man named Shari'ati, one of the engineers of the Islamic revolution, presented his philosophy in modernist and Islamist terms. He argued that Europeans learned the wrong lessons during the Dark Ages. Enlightenment philosophy determined that religion was why Europe suffered, instead of recognizing that true Christianity was hijacked by a self-serving Church. For the Enlightenment philosophers, a separation of church and state was an ingredient to make society healthy again. Sharia'ti argued that it was the absence of God in Europe, specifically within communism, that was the root cause for two World Wars. In other words, the athiesm of European government systems was maneuving society through life without guidance from God.


Ploughboy said:
All we need to do is look at Europe and see the tragedy playing out over there and we know for certain that mankind cannot live by secular humanism. For Europe is falling to Islam and its because of the secular-progressives and their antichrist agenda. The future of Europe looks real ugly, even horrifying. Europe teaches us that separating our nation from Christ leads to death just as Scripture warned us it would. Europe used to be a great place before the secular-progressives destroyed it---and it is being utterly destroyed! So atheism most miserably failed Europe just as its failing America and every other nation. But it does say in Scripture that Satan will lay low the nations. Every nation that departs their soul from God will collapse under the weight of their sins.

Europe is the best proof there is no evolution. Atheists have had control over Europe for a long time and now Europe is falling.
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So, like the Islamists who still demand that government be saturated with God, you have the answer. I have discovered that it is entirely impossible to talk to somebody about reality when God is whispering in their other ear.
 
prometeus said:
Sorry, I am not buying from an extreme right wing anti-Muslim bunch. Moreover, it still has nothing to do with what I posted. Evangelical as a group remain some of the biggest assholes and hypocrites meddling in politics and other people's lives.
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There are millions of non Muslim & non Christian assholes out there trying to run everyone else's business as well.

Get a grip.
 
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Tim the plumber said:

You may well have a point.

Why do you think only white churches are on the march for power?
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Because they don't believe the so called religion they claim to practice, for if they did they would do as the scripture tells them BUT they are not.

They fail to hold their sacred scripture to themselves, Timothy 3: 5-7

they are false prophets, preaching a gospel yet denying it's power over them, only to take from this world which they are guided not to do

the WASP is dying, breathing it's last gasps ........... and they cling to a sinful Satanic adulterer for their dear leader ........... an abomination to their own faith .........
 
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