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Thread: "Separation of Church and State"

  1. #241
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    Re: "Separation of Church and State"



    When the separation of church and state leads to children with scraped knees


    ‘A scraped knee is a scraped knee whether it happens at a Montessori day care or a Lutheran day care.’







    When not furrowing their collective brows about creches and displays of the Ten Commandments here and there, courts often are pondering tangential contacts between the government and religious schools. Courts have held that public money can constitutionally fund the transportation of parochial school pupils to classes — but not on field trips. It can fund nurses at parochial schools — but not guidance counselors. It can fund books — but not maps. Daniel Patrick Moynihan wondered: What about atlases, which are books of maps? On Wednesday, the Supreme Court will consider the constitutional significance of this incontrovertible truth: “A scraped knee is a scraped knee whether it happens at a Montessori day care or a Lutheran day care.”
    That assertion is in an agreeably brief amicus brief written by Michael McConnell, a Stanford University law professor specializing in church-state relations. He requires just 13 pages to make mincemeat of Missouri’s contention that a bit of 19th-century bigotry lodged in its constitution requires it to deny shredded tires to Trinity Lutheran Church in Columbia, which runs a preschool. . . .


    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  2. #242
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    Re: "Separation of Church and State"

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    The meaning of "separation of church and state" has evolved over the years. In 1800, Congress approved the use of the Capitol building as a church building and many government officials attended church there up until Lincoln's term. Congress also reviewed and approved a version of the Bible in the 1700s and public school teachers taught scripture to their students. Apparently it didn't mean what many think it means now.
    and, the founders knew religion was the source of human morality so they protected our free exercise knowing there would be more free exercise and more morality if govt didn't try to exclude some religions in favor of one.

  3. #243
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    Re: "Separation of Church and State"

    Quote Originally Posted by James972 View Post
    and, the founders knew religion was the source of human morality so they protected our free exercise knowing there would be more free exercise and more morality if govt didn't try to exclude some religions in favor of one.
    The problem in modern America is that some who call themselves Christian do not believe "freedom of religion" applies to any faith but Christianity and Judaism - and not all of them are sure about the Jewish thing.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

  4. #244
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    Re: "Separation of Church and State"

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    The problem in modern America is that some who call themselves Christian do not believe "freedom of religion" applies to any faith but Christianity and Judaism - and not all of them are sure about the Jewish thing.
    I'm sure debt wars drugs poverty etc are far more important problems. maybe you mispoke?
    Last edited by James972; 01-27-18 at 09:41 PM.

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    Re: "Separation of Church and State"

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    The meaning of "separation of church and state" has evolved over the years. In 1800, Congress approved the use of the Capitol building as a church building and many government officials attended church there up until Lincoln's term. Congress also reviewed and approved a version of the Bible in the 1700s and public school teachers taught scripture to their students. Apparently it didn't mean what many think it means now.
    Uh no; there was a chapel put into the building in 1955.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Kids who want to end our rights as a stupid reaction to a traumatic event shouldn't be cut any slack. Can you imagine the outcry if some kids who say were victimized by predatory priests came out and demanded laws banning homosexual sex?

  6. #246
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    Re: "Separation of Church and State"

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    The concept was from it's inception to keep the gov't out of the Church. It was never to keep the Church out of the gov't. The examples of the Church being an accepted part of our gov't are numerous and widespread across most of the first 150 years of this nation's existence. The idea that the Church is to be excluded from gov't is a recent invention that is not reflective of what the Constitution was clearly stating. The problem that the Revisionists have is that when the Constitution was written, no one thought that anyone whould be so dumb as to have to have this stuff spelled out to them at the level of detail that's needed to day. We can look back at how our nation functioned in cooperation with the Church and see crystal clear evidence that the Church was a strong influence on our gov't and that efforts by the gov't to interfere with the Church were expressly fought against. The Danbury Letters show this with incredible clarity.
    Nope: the idea was to separate the church from government AND legislation.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Kids who want to end our rights as a stupid reaction to a traumatic event shouldn't be cut any slack. Can you imagine the outcry if some kids who say were victimized by predatory priests came out and demanded laws banning homosexual sex?

  7. #247
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    Re: "Separation of Church and State"

    Quote Originally Posted by James972 View Post
    I'm sure debt wars drugs poverty etc are far more important problems. maybe you mispoke?
    He didn't say debt and wars are less important, all he did was state that there's a problem in American with certain Christians.

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    Re: "Separation of Church and State"

    Quote Originally Posted by Soopairik View Post
    He didn't say debt and wars are less important, all he did was state that there's a problem in American with certain

    Christians.
    no he said "the problem in America"

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    Re: "Separation of Church and State"

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Nope: the idea was to separate the church from government AND legislation.
    and to prevent govt from preventing you from your free exercise. It was a way to expand religion

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    Re: "Separation of Church and State"

    Quote Originally Posted by James972 View Post
    no he said "the problem in America"
    And he also didn't say that was the only problem.

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