• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Tax Exemption for Churches

Status
Not open for further replies.
yankintx said:
As a land owner in San Antonio who pays a substantial amount of $$ in property taxes, I am perplexed why I should subsidize religious organizations thru my property taxes. I live quite close to downtown, a location where there are many large Churches, some with pay as you go parking lots, childcare centers, and restaurants. These Churches sit on large lots with multiple buildings. and I for one feel like as a property tax payer my rights (separation of Church and State) are being violated by subsidizing there tax exempt status. Churches use local and community services, they should pay up like the rest of us. Opinions? Please lets not bash anyone religion, that's not the intent, a sane rational discussion of why the Federal government allows this free ride would be cool.

Tax exemptions | First Amendment Center ? news, commentary, analysis on free speech, press, religion, assembly, petition

Pope Francis Calls for Ending Tax-Exempt Status of Churches That Don't Help the Needy
Click to expand...

Neither your property taxes, nor any other taxes you pay, are used to subsidize any religious organizations in the United States.
 
jimbo said:
Why not all? It's the same argument.
Click to expand...

No some business like small office buildings are low impact, a church would probably fall into that category. Manufacturing etc can use significant infrastructure.
 
Winchester said:
No some business like small office buildings are low impact, a church would probably fall into that category. Manufacturing etc can use significant infrastructure.
Click to expand...

Have you seen some of the mega church infrastructures?
 
Winchester said:
No some business like small office buildings are low impact, a church would probably fall into that category. Manufacturing etc can use significant infrastructure.
Click to expand...

Churches that would find themselves in financial difficulty due to a property tax bill, could receive an exemption from there local city/town. It should be decided on a local level, I say means test it, if the Church can pay, then they should. But blanket coverage for all is BS, it is a loop hole which is open to abuse. And how can the IRS decide what is a religion and what is not, is there a checklist? If so I would like to establish the Church of Ganja, open to all who wish to pray to the green god lol.
 
jimbo said:
Have you seen some of the mega church infrastructures?
Click to expand...

I have, but they are few and far between. I really okay with either side of the argument (though I lean towards them paying via property taxes for the services they use) because as a whole it's pretty immaterial.
 
yankintx said:
Churches that would find themselves in financial difficulty due to a property tax bill, could receive an exemption from there local city/town. It should be decided on a local level, I say means test it, if the Church can pay, then they should. But blanket coverage for all is BS, it is a loop hole which is open to abuse. And how can the IRS decide what is a religion and what is not, is there a checklist? If so I would like to establish the Church of Ganja, open to all who wish to pray to the green god lol.
Click to expand...

As a whole they are already decided on a local/state level. There is no federal law stating a church doesn't have to pay property taxes.
 
Paleocon said:
Neither your property taxes, nor any other taxes you pay, are used to subsidize any religious organizations in the United States.
Click to expand...

That's not true. The act of exempting churches from property tax is a subsidy. Just like any free stuff, somebody pays.

Would the effect be different if church's paid ptoperty taxes, then the county reimbursed the church for the expense?
 
Winchester said:
I have, but they are few and far between. I really okay with either side of the argument (though I lean towards them paying via property taxes for the services they use) because as a whole it's pretty immaterial.
Click to expand...

Yup

Churches should not have to pay income taxes, but if they can, they should pay for the street cleaners, street lights, city parks upkeep, in property taxes just like the rest of us. I do not want to see them disappear, despite what Fox news and its fictional war on Christianity perpetrated by Atheist are saying. Churches provide a valuable service to there local communities, but stop riding for free.
 
yankintx said:
Churches that would find themselves in financial difficulty due to a property tax bill, could receive an exemption from there local city/town. It should be decided on a local level, I say means test it, if the Church can pay, then they should. But blanket coverage for all is BS, it is a loop hole which is open to abuse. And how can the IRS decide what is a religion and what is not, is there a checklist? If so I would like to establish the Church of Ganja, open to all who wish to pray to the green god lol.
Click to expand...

To address some of your points:

Why would the locality care whether a church had the ability to pay any more than a homeowner or business. You don't pay, you get foreclosed. Means testing, like all other means testing shifts the burden of the less successful onto the most successful.

The IRS already has a checklist. It is used to determine the eligibility of a church to be exempt from federal taxes.
You can in fact petition the feds to grant exemptions to your church of the holy green. Stranger churches already have exemptions.

It should be noted that we are actually talking about two different issues. Federal and local. As already noted, the two are different.
 
I am like so mad that theocrat bigots who hate on gay people get a free ride on taxes. I hope our President will issue an order that takes away the tax breaks of any xtian church that refuses to marry same-sex couples. Self-righteous theocrats have no right to make anyone feel yucky and invalidated in the name of their stupid, backward superstitions.

As a true liberal, I say to hell with your sacred Amerikkkan "constitution." Do whatever it takes to stop the hate NOW! We should never tolerate bigots, and they can't stop gays from getting their equal rights any more than they could stop blacks or women or other victims of oppression.
 
Winchester said:
Not a lot in the scheme of things. They probably should pay property tax as they do make use of city services but then the argument could be made that their members already pay property taxes so in effect it's paid for. Granted there are those who don't go to church and theoretically a part of their property taxes goes to make up for churches and non-profits who don't pay.
Click to expand...

That (bolded above) assertion is false. The property tax rate is the same for church users and non-church users alike. That is the entire point of the OP - these non-profit places take up space yet pay no property taxes, thus raising the tax amount due for all other properties. I could see paying at reduced rate, much like agricultural use property, but not getting a total tax-free ride.
 
matchlight said:
I am like so mad that theocrat bigots who hate on gay people get a free ride on taxes. I hope our President will issue an order that takes away the tax breaks of any xtian church that refuses to marry same-sex couples. Self-righteous theocrats have no right to make anyone feel yucky and invalidated in the name of their stupid, backward superstitions.

As a true liberal, I say to hell with your sacred Amerikkkan "constitution." Do whatever it takes to stop the hate NOW! We should never tolerate bigots, and they can't stop gays from getting their equal rights any more than they could stop blacks or women or other victims of oppression.
Click to expand...

Yes, we know these threads are always started with an agenda in mind and not any BS about 'fairness'; they are just another angle of attack against political views that don't cater to PC fascism.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That (bolded above) assertion is false. The property tax rate is the same for church users and non-church users alike. That is the entire point of the OP - these non-profit places take up space yet pay no property taxes, thus raising the tax amount due for all other properties. I could see paying at reduced rate, much like agricultural use property, but not getting a total tax-free ride.
Click to expand...

No, they don't raise anybody else's taxes. Churches don't exist at all for tax purposes, they're excepted. Nobody can show where they increase taxes on anybody.
 
yankintx said:
Yup

Churches should not have to pay income taxes, but if they can, they should pay for the street cleaners, street lights, city parks upkeep, in property taxes just like the rest of us. I do not want to see them disappear, despite what Fox news and its fictional war on Christianity perpetrated by Atheist are saying. Churches provide a valuable service to there local communities, but stop riding for free.
Click to expand...

Show us some examples of streets stopping in front of properties where the city owns the property or somebody has failed to pay their property tax on their lots and picking up again on the other side of the property.

They aren't 'riding for free', no matter how it gets spun. What you want is to harass those with beliefs you don't like, and get them classified as 'businesses' so they can be harassed and sued, like those hapless 80 year old women with small bakeries that get targeted and abused by your 'community' for instance.

Why not just be honest about it and not pretend these threads are about anything else? They are about shutting down free speech, that's all.
 
It's really simply IMO. In no way shape or form should a church or any other rebellious org be exempt from taxes or get any other break simply because they are a church or a religious org. The rules should apply to them just like everybody else. If they file for a non-profit or some other exemption that anybody or any optimization can apply for then so be it but it should have nothing to do with religion. There's really no reason to make them a special case in regard to taxes.
 
Winchester said:
As a whole they are already decided on a local/state level. There is no federal law stating a church doesn't have to pay property taxes.
Click to expand...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_of_the_Bill_of_Rights

The 14th Amendment says they are excepted at the state level as well; subjecting churches to state and local tax laws is also prohibited. Local governments can however refuse to re-zone property purchased for the purpose of starting a church, but those cases often end up in courts. Our local city just did that, and will probably be taken to court, and will probably lose, but there is enough grey area there that the city is trying to anyway; it's not like they're blowing their own money, just the taxpayers'.
 
Last edited:
countryboy said:
Do you believe all non profit organizations should be taxed, or do you just have it in for churches?
Click to expand...

Most non profits such as credit unions pay property taxes unlike churches.
 
jimbo said:
Not just property taxes, but all tax breaks. Including, but not limited to:

Profits on businesses conducted by churches.

Income and property taxes on the parsonage.
Click to expand...

If a church runs a for profit business they are required to pay tax on that I believe.
 
Hari Seldon said:
If a church runs a for profit business they are required to pay tax on that I believe.
Click to expand...

They are supposed to. They can simply give their profits to the church resulting in no income tax liability.

Property tax is another matter, is local, and varies by locality. In my county churches are supposed to pay on that portion used as a business location, and that includes day care centers, bingo games, car washes, and bake sales. As an appraiser I was in tax records daily for 30 years and never found it to be enforced. Churches here BTW, are assessed for that reason.
 
jimbo said:
That's not true. The act of exempting churches from property tax is a subsidy. Just like any free stuff, somebody pays.
Click to expand...

No, not taking their money isn't the same thing as giving them money.

Would the effect be different if church's paid ptoperty taxes, then the county reimbursed the church for the expense?
Click to expand...

Aside from the unnecessary bueracratics, no.
 
Hari Seldon said:
Most non profits such as credit unions pay property taxes unlike churches.
Click to expand...

Actually, I believe the vast majority of non profits do not pay property taxes. Would you force all non profits to pay property taxes, or just churches?
 
countryboy said:
Actually, I believe the vast majority of non profits do not pay property taxes. Would you force all non profits to pay property taxes, or just churches?
Click to expand...

I think most non profits other than churches do pay property taxes. I think they all should.
 
Non profit in itself does not exempt an organization from property taxes. Non profit must meet certain guide lines in most areas to be granted exemption property taxes. I assume it varies across the country.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom