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Was the First Amendment originally intended only to protect Christianity?

Somerville

Somerville

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I know this has been attacked from several different angles but one of the loudest voices on the religious right, Bryan Fischer, has once again written a post arguing that only Christianity was understood to be protected by the First Amendment

November 19, 2014
If First Amendment isn't just about Christianity, we have to allow Satanism

I have written on numerous occasions that the purpose of the First Amendment, as Justice Joseph Story declares in his monumental history of the Constitution, was only to protect the free exercise of the Christian faith and to prevent the selection and designation of one Christian denomination as the official church of the United States.

Story said the purpose of the Founders in crafting the First Amendment was not to "countenance much less to advance Mohammedanism, Judaism or infidelity...but to exclude all rivalry among Christian sects" (meaning denominations).

But because low-information educators have so mangled our history, and activist judges have so mangled our Constitution, most Americans, even educated ones, do not understand this basic fact about the First Amendment: that by the word "religion" in the First Amendment, the Founders meant only the various expressions of Christianity my emphasis
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Others on the right have also made such claims, people such as Judge Roy Moore, who was taped at a Pastors For Life meeting saying "... religion," as defined in the First Amendment, applies only to God the Creator.

"Everybody, to include the United States Supreme Court, has been deceived as to one little word in the first amendment called 'religion,'" he said. "They can't define it."

Moore insisted that freedom of religion applies only the God of the Bible, and therefore the protections of the establishment clause do not extend to other religions, such as Islam and Buddhism.

"They don't want to do that, because that acknowledges the creator God," he said. "Buddha didn't create us. Muhammad didn't create us. It's the God of the Holy Scriptures."

BUT, just like many other politicians, and Roy Moore is one of that nature, the Judge quickly made a statement about being misunderstood - oh, the poor guy, he was just trying to preach a Christian sermon and some of his constituents seemed to disapprove.
Alabama's Chief Justice Roy Moore, facing criticism over a video posted on the website Raw Story Friday, said in an interview Monday that he believes the religious freedoms in the First Amendment apply to all faiths.
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Then we have the religious pseudo-historian David Barton who travels the country selling his version of the founding of America, arguing incessantly that only Christianity should be protected.

The question posed: Did the Founding Fathers, the composers of the Constitution specifically, intend for the First Amendment to apply only to those citizens who were believers in the Christian faith?
 
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No.
1. Several of the founding fathers were deists.*
2. If the amendment was intended to protect only Christians, it would have made that clear.


"Deism (i/ˈdiː.ɪzəm/[1][2] or /ˈdeɪ.ɪzəm/, derived from the Latin word deus meaning "god") combines a rejection of religious knowledge as a source of authority with the belief that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existence of a single creator of the universe.[3][4][5][6][7] Deism gained prominence among intellectuals during the Age of Enlightenment – especially in Britain, France, Germany and the United States – who, raised as Christians, believed in one god but became disenchanted with organized religion and notions such as the Trinity, Biblical inerrancy and the supernatural interpretation of events such as miracles.[8] Included in those influenced by its ideas were leaders of the American and French Revolutions.[9]
Wikipedia
 
No. The choice of the words actually used in the constitution is important and religion never meant Christianity either before or after it came into existence. Debatng the intent of specific founders based on their other writings, letters, notes or the hearsay of those that claim to have "known him well" makes no difference. That is a stupid as claiming that weather meant only precipitaion because some occasionally used the word that way.
 
Yes. The Founders were clear that all other religions, especially Islam, was to be treated with less rights.
 
Hard Truth said:
No.
1. Several of the founding fathers were deists.*
2. If the amendment was intended to protect only Christians, it would have made that clear.


"Deism (i/ˈdiː.ɪzəm/[1][2] or /ˈdeɪ.ɪzəm/, derived from the Latin word deus meaning "god") combines a rejection of religious knowledge as a source of authority with the belief that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existence of a single creator of the universe.[3][4][5][6][7] Deism gained prominence among intellectuals during the Age of Enlightenment – especially in Britain, France, Germany and the United States – who, raised as Christians, believed in one god but became disenchanted with organized religion and notions such as the Trinity, Biblical inerrancy and the supernatural interpretation of events such as miracles.[8] Included in those influenced by its ideas were leaders of the American and French Revolutions.[9]
Wikipedia
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do not include Jefferson in that equation...he was a christian, because he states that he is in his own words.
 
The use of the word God in our magna carta was because higher power didn't read as well, and many of the founders, being masons, accepted a higher power, though not necessarily the christian god.



Either way, who cares of their intent? What matters is the result, and the result is, RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, so long as it's not at the expense of the rights of others.
 
Bodhisattva said:
No. If I looked it up and found out I was wrong then that would mess with my world view.
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then you must have had someone feed you that misinformation, either in your life or read it on the internet which is full of people spreading various amounts of false information.
 
Somerville said:
I know this has been attacked from several different angles but one of the loudest voices on the religious right, Bryan Fischer, has once again written a post arguing that only Christianity was understood to be protected by the First Amendment



Others on the right have also made such claims, people such as Judge Roy Moore, who was taped at a Pastors For Life meeting saying "... religion," as defined in the First Amendment, applies only to God the Creator.

"Everybody, to include the United States Supreme Court, has been deceived as to one little word in the first amendment called 'religion,'" he said. "They can't define it."

Moore insisted that freedom of religion applies only the God of the Bible, and therefore the protections of the establishment clause do not extend to other religions, such as Islam and Buddhism.

"They don't want to do that, because that acknowledges the creator God," he said. "Buddha didn't create us. Muhammad didn't create us. It's the God of the Holy Scriptures."

BUT, just like many other politicians, and Roy Moore is one of that nature, the Judge quickly made a statement about being misunderstood - oh, the poor guy, he was just trying to preach a Christian sermon and some of his constituents seemed to disapprove.

Then we have the religious pseudo-historian David Barton who travels the country selling his version of the founding of America, arguing incessantly that only Christianity should be protected.

The question posed: Did the Founding Fathers, the composers of the Constitution specifically, intend for the First Amendment to apply only to those citizens who were believers in the Christian faith?
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The framers were worried about establishing a religion or state supported church much as the Church of England was back in those days. Where the people could be made to pay taxes in support of the Church of England. Hence the federal government was prohibited from making any laws that might establish a church of the U.S. or any other religious denomination as an official United States Religion.

Then they went on saying the federal government couldn't intervene in the practice or the exercise of anyone's religion. Did they specifically mean Christianity, no. What they wanted was a federal government that stayed out of anything religious, either denying or promoting.
 
A False Dilemma, as it turns out...

ernst barkmann said:
then you must have had someone feed you that misinformation, either in your life .
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Nope.

or read it on the internet which is full of people spreading various amounts of false information
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Can I include you in that category?
 
Bodhisattva said:
A False Dilemma, as it turns out...



Nope.



Can I include you in that category?
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no you cannot, because when i cite, , i do it from what the founders say, not from my own perceptive.

anything you can think of right now, which i have said to you concerning the founders, i will be happy to back it up with their own words.
 
ernst barkmann said:
no you cannot, because when i cite, , i do it from what the founders say, not from my own perceptive.

anything you can think of right now, which i have said to you concerning the founders, i will be happy to back it up with their own words.
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The Founders of this nation explicitly included Islam in their vision of the future of the republic. Freedom of religion, as they conceived it, encompassed it. Adherents of the faith were, with some exceptions, regarded as men and women who would make law-abiding, productive citizens. Far from fearing Islam, the Founders would have incorporated it into the fabric of American life.

The Founding Fathers and Islam (May 2002) - Library of Congress Information Bulletin
 
ernst barkmann said:
do not include Jefferson in that equation...he was a christian, because he states that he is in his own words.
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Thomas Jefferson may have called himself a Christian but he certainly would not fit into the definition most understand today
Jefferson believed in the existence of a Supreme Being who was the creator and sustainer of the universe and the ultimate ground of being, but this was not the triune deity of orthodox Christianity. He also rejected the idea of the divinity of Christ, but as he writes to William Short on October 31, 1819, he was convinced that the fragmentary teachings of Jesus constituted the "outlines of a system of the most sublime morality which has ever fallen from the lips of man." In correspondence, he sometimes expressed confidence that the whole country would be Unitarian, but he recognized the novelty of his own religious beliefs. On June 25, 1819, he wrote to Ezra Stiles Ely, "I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know."
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.

Jefferson's "I am a Christian" quote, which is seldom fully quoted by the evangelical, "America is a Christian Nation" folks
1803 April 21. (Jefferson to Benjamin Rush).
"To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence; and believing he never claimed any other.
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a bit more of Jefferson's thoughts on Jesus as a god
1823 April 11. (Jefferson to John Adams).
"The truth is that the greatest enemies to the doctrines of Jesus are those calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them for the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.
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Somerville said:
The question posed: Did the Founding Fathers, the composers of the Constitution specifically, intend for the First Amendment to apply only to those citizens who were believers in the Christian faith?
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Given some of the things the Founders said about Christianity, organized religion in any sense, the overwhelming worry about factions dictating to others, and the operation of church and state concerns... I find it highly unlikely they wrote the 1st Amendment to only be for those that followed Christianity.
 
I've never expected that that was the case. I know that some of the founders were Christian, but a good many of them were not, and many of them were highly educated and intelligent men. Higher education combined with what would have been classical liberalism of that time period, would have made it very likely (imo) that they actually supported religious freedom, no matter the religion.
 
Somerville said:
Did the Founding Fathers, the composers of the Constitution specifically, intend for the First Amendment to apply only to those citizens who were believers in the Christian faith?
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Nope.

There is no question that the ratifiers of the First Amendment were well aware of non-Christian religions. They certainly knew about Judaism and Islam. They were well aware of the strife in Europe that (correctly or incorrectly) was attributed to sectarian divisions among Christians, especially Catholics and Protestants. Their society was composed of Puritans, Quakers, Catholics, Jews, Lutherans, Calvinists, Congregationalists, Mennonites... so which "Christians" were supposed to be protected? Were all the Jews supposed to convert? Was the Federal government supposed to force everyone to go to church on Sunday?

It's a ridiculous claim. Even Moore should have known better.
 
Somerville said:
Thomas Jefferson may have called himself a Christian but he certainly would not fit into the definition most understand today
.

Jefferson's "I am a Christian" quote, which is seldom fully quoted by the evangelical, "America is a Christian Nation" folks


a bit more of Jefferson's thoughts on Jesus as a god
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to be christian means......you accept the blood and body of Christ,...that's what it means.....you cannot be a christian without doing that.
 
Bodhisattva said:
The Founders of this nation explicitly included Islam in their vision of the future of the republic. Freedom of religion, as they conceived it, encompassed it. Adherents of the faith were, with some exceptions, regarded as men and women who would make law-abiding, productive citizens. Far from fearing Islam, the Founders would have incorporated it into the fabric of American life.

The Founding Fathers and Islam (May 2002) - Library of Congress Information Bulletin
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excuse me, why do you quote me, .....when i was talking about my actions on the forum......

then you post your link.???????
 
If the 1st only applies to Christians, can Islam be declared the national religion?
 
Bodhisattva said:
The Founders of this nation explicitly included Islam in their vision of the future of the republic. Freedom of religion, as they conceived it, encompassed it. Adherents of the faith were, with some exceptions, regarded as men and women who would make law-abiding, productive citizens. Far from fearing Islam, the Founders would have incorporated it into the fabric of American life.



The Founding Fathers and Islam
Library Papers Show Early Tolerance for Muslim Faith

The Founding Fathers and Islam (May 2002) - Library of Congress Information Bulletin
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just adding the large section
 
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