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Was the First Amendment originally intended only to protect Christianity?

ernst barkmann said:
you say you follow the teachings of Jesus, well what do you think Jesus is teaching.....i am the way the truth and the life.....those that believe in me shall never die.

no its not the way god intended......but carry on.
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God intends for us to have a personal relationship with him... not dictated to by man (the Church)
 
Bodhisattva said:
God intends for us to have a personal relationship with him... not dictated to by man (the Church)
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who says the church is supposed to, i am not a Catholic.

but Jesus tells you in his teachings to go to heaven you have to go through him.
 
ernst barkmann said:
who says the church is supposed to, i am not a Catholic.

but Jesus tells you in his teachings to go to heaven you have to go through him.
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That means to live a good life... heaven. Going through him means to follow his teachings...
 
bodhisattva said:
that means to live a good life... Heaven. Going through him means to follow his teachings...
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going though him means you except the blood and body of Christ, his sacrifice for you.

In Christan teachings you must be covered by the blood of Jesus to go heaven.

My friend i believe you are unsure about what you believe, and ask you to call upon the lord to answer you.
 
ernst barkmann said:


going though him means you except the blood and body of Christ, his sacrifice for you.

In Christan teachings you must be covered by the blood of Jesus to go heaven.

My friend i believe you are unsure about what you believe, and ask you to call upon the lord to answer you.
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I know exactly what I believe and I think that you think that your view is correct over all others and that is contradictory to God's original message.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I know exactly what I believe and I think that you think that your view is correct over all others and that is contradictory to God's original message.
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in Christianity one cannot enter the kingdom of heaven without being covered with blood of Christ for his sins, that is the very basic fact of all Christians.
 
I believe that the idea that the country... the world... would become so close and intermingled as it has never occurred to them. I'd be willing to bet that they never foresaw it would ever be an issue. Hence, they felt no need to be more specific.

Just a suspicion.
 
ernst barkmann said:
in Christianity one cannot enter the kingdom of heaven without being covered with blood of Christ for his sins, that is the very basic fact of all Christians.
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Not for all nonorthodox christians. Just because you believe one way doesnt mean that everyone believes the same as you. BTW the words that you were looking for was: Essential doctrine. But church doctrine is fickle depending on what nut case made up what. Your position that jesus was divine and you wont accept any other definition of a christian faith hits home the importance of the First Amendment. You dont get to judge others faiths, what is right and what is wrong. Sure you can spout off whatever you like but you hold no official standings.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Not for all nonorthodox christians. Just because you believe one way doesnt mean that everyone believes the same as you. BTW the words that you were looking for was: Essential doctrine. But church doctrine is fickle depending on what nut case made up what. Your position that jesus was divine and you wont accept any other definition of a christian faith hits home the importance of the First Amendment. You dont get to judge others faiths, what is right and what is wrong. Sure you can spout off whatever you like but you hold no official standings.
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my point has nothing to do with the 1st...nothing.

my point is to call yourself a Christian, but deny Jesus does not fly.

because to believe in the teachings of Jesus is to believe he is the son of man, because that is what Jesus is teaching.

the attempt to call ones self a christian, and then say Jesus is not the son of man, is to try to water-down the christian faith.....that is my point.
 
The 1st Amendment doesn't say one word about Christianity. Read it. :roll:




"The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or Mohammedan nation." ~ John Adams, 2nd president of the USA
 
shrubnose said:
The 1st Amendment doesn't say one word about Christianity. Read it. :roll:
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that's correct.

shrubnose said:
"The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or Mohammedan nation." ~ John Adams, 2nd president of the USA
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by the way you need to correct the John Adams statement if its based on the Treaty of Tripoli

As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims] and as the said States [America] have never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
 
ernst barkmann said:
no its incorrect.

first ....Wikipedia, anybody can create anything on the site,its not the most reliable source of info.....

second....both Adams and Jefferson were church going men, Jefferson went every Sunday while in Washington.

third...... Jefferson's bible is a quick reference book of the quotes of Jesus, and its contains that Jesus is divine and sits at the right hand of god.

forth..... if you look for quotes, Adams calls jesus a King?

this continued idea to promote things which are not true, is pretty sicking,
to claim to be a christian, but not to believe in the blood and body of Christ, is laughable.
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no its not simple.......in fact its utter confusion.
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"The very word "Christianity" is a misunderstanding - in truth there was only one Christian, and he died on the cross." ~ Nietzsche

What more do we need to say? :roll:
 
ernst barkmann said:
that's correct.




by the way you need to correct the John Adams statement if its based on the Treaty of Tripoli
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As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims] and as the said States [America] have never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
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I know that and I also know that John Adams signed that treaty and the treaty was approved by the U.S. Senate.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I don't care about what Jefferson, you or anybody else think about how others view their spirituality or religion, to be honest.
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At one time I thought that Jefferson was a great man.

That was before I learned about how he mistreated his slaves. :roll:
 
Paschendale said:
It's laughable to you that other religions besides your own not being legally discriminated against?
Tell me, what will you do when you're the minority, then, and whatever group is in power decides that it's really their religion and not yours that's protected?
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If enough Germans would have thought of this, maybe the Holocaust wouldn't have happened. :roll:
 
CrabCake said:
The religion clause of the first amendment originally only applied to the federal government. It was the intention of the founders that religion was a matter left to the states. Thus there were actually official state churches in the early US. This is why it reads "congress shall make no law" rather than "states shall make no law". Incorporation, which came with the 14th amendment is what extends this so that it now applies to all states as well. That was obviously outside of the intentions of the founders. But I find myself thinking...."who cares?". We've evolved a lot since the time of the founders,
who really cares what they thought?
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Not just what they thought, What some of them actually did.
 
ernst barkmann said:
my point has nothing to do with the 1st...nothing.

my point is to call yourself a Christian, but deny Jesus does not fly.

because to believe in the teachings of Jesus is to believe he is the son of man, because that is what Jesus is teaching.

the attempt to call ones self a christian, and then say Jesus is not the son of man, is to try to water-down the christian faith.....that is my point.
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That is your opinion on what doctrine that you follow. Other people may follow other doctrines.
 
No, I don't believe the amendment was meant to only protect various denominations of Christianity.

ernst barkmann said:
do not include Jefferson in that equation...he was a christian, because he states that he is in his own words.
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That's the funny thing with discussions of Deism that I never guite got.

It's quite possible to be theologically a Deist, while claiming and even actively participating in an established religion for a host of other options.

In general, when asked my religion I say Christian, as its generally simpler in situations where I don't feel like getting in depth about it with the person. I was raised Christian, if I go to church currently it's to a christian church, when I generally think or offer a prayer to a "god" it's in the Christian mold, and in general I live my life guided by a moral code that was highly influenced by Christian morality. However, when I have time or desire to actually sit and discuss with people I'm probably far closet to a Deist or Agnostic as opposed to a true Christian.

ernst barkmann said:
to be christian means......you accept the blood and body of Christ,...that's what it means.....you cannot be a christian without doing that.
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To BE a christian means that in your opinion, or even by the Bibles definition. However, to CLAIM to be a Christian does not require that. One can absolutely claim to be a Christian, even consider themselves a christian, without acepting the "blood and body of christ" in the fashion you imply.
 
shrubnose said:
That is BS. :roll:

It doesn't say a word about that in the U.S. Constitution and that's where all U.S. law comes from.
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They very clearly did not approve of Islam...

At one time I thought that Jefferson was a great man.

That was before I learned about how he mistreated his slaves
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What he does with his property should not define how great he is...
 
shrubnose said:
I know that and I also know that John Adams signed that treaty and the treaty was approved by the U.S. Senate.
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yes, but your statement stated the united states, not the government of the united states, and the government with its Constitution is not a religious document at all, so Adams is correct.

however Adams does state that ........."Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams
 
Zyphlin said:
No, I don't believe the amendment was meant to only protect various denominations of Christianity.



That's the funny thing with discussions of Deism that I never guite got.

It's quite possible to be theologically a Deist, while claiming and even actively participating in an established religion for a host of other options.

In general, when asked my religion I say Christian, as its generally simpler in situations where I don't feel like getting in depth about it with the person. I was raised Christian, if I go to church currently it's to a christian church, when I generally think or offer a prayer to a "god" it's in the Christian mold, and in general I live my life guided by a moral code that was highly influenced by Christian morality. However, when I have time or desire to actually sit and discuss with people I'm probably far closet to a Deist or Agnostic as opposed to a true Christian.



To BE a christian means that in your opinion, or even by the Bibles definition. However, to CLAIM to be a Christian does not require that. One can absolutely claim to be a Christian, even consider themselves a christian, without acepting the "blood and body of christ" in the fashion you imply.
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yes there are people who call themselves Christians, who do not believe in the blood and body, however those are about 2%...

to say i believe in the teachings of Jesus and pick and chose of those teachings is the problem.. when Jesus is telling you in those teachings.... i am the Christ.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
That is your opinion on what doctrine that you follow. Other people may follow other doctrines.
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no... its calling picking an choosing what you wish to believe out of Jesus's teaching...

its like myself with Madison......i could not ever quote Madison...... if i believed in Madison on 1 subject and not on another.

in the catholic church, [which i do not belong to] picking and choosing is a called a cafeteria catholic.
 
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