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Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public servi

JacksinPA

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Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public servi

A Quebec Ban on Religious Symbols Upends Lives and Careers - The New York Times

Since the Quebec government in June banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors and other public sector employees from wearing religious symbols while at work, people like these three women have been grappling with the consequences:

- A Muslim lawyer
- A Sikh teacher
- An Orthodox Jewish teacher[paywall]
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Quebec is a strange place in a number of ways. They are very intolerant of even native-born French speakers not being able to exactly master their 17th-century French dialect. They despise non-French Americans. Now they have passed this religious symbol-in-the-workplace ban.
 
Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

A Quebec Ban on Religious Symbols Upends Lives and Careers - The New York Times

Since the Quebec government in June banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors and other public sector employees from wearing religious symbols while at work, people like these three women have been grappling with the consequences:

- A Muslim lawyer
- A Sikh teacher
- An Orthodox Jewish teacher[paywall]
====================================================
Quebec is a strange place in a number of ways. They are very intolerant of even native-born French speakers not being able to exactly master their 17th-century French dialect. They despise non-French Americans. Now they have passed this religious symbol-in-the-workplace ban.

Call it what it is. The current Quebec government are run by a bunch of regressive xenophobic bigots who are using this supposedly "secular" law to crack down on non-Quebecois racial and religious minorities. This is what allowing separatist accommodation within a sovereign nation does: the fostering of balkanization. Canada should never have forced the recognition of French as its official second language in order to placate the Quebecois. It only serves to foster further division.
 
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Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

Call it what it is. The current Quebec government are run by a bunch of regressive xenophobic bigots who are using this supposedly "secular" law to crack down on non-Quebecois racial and religious minorities. This is what allowing separatist accommodation within a sovereign nation does: the fostering of balkanization. Canada should never have forced the recognition of French as its official second language in order to placate the Quebecois.

IIRC, they were on the brink of seceding from Canada.
 
Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

Or maybe Quebec wants to keep its culture in place. What happened to the concept of immigrants adapting to their new country.
 
Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

This is pretty interesting, given the very high incidence of Catholicism among the Quebecois.
 
Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

Or maybe Quebec wants to keep its culture in place. What happened to the concept of immigrants adapting to their new country.
It does not follow. They're highly Catholic.
 
Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

IIRC, they were on the brink of secceding.

True, but such accommodation only helps foster further division and encourages greater brinksmanship. Canada should have stood up from the start and should now stand up to the racists and xenophobes in Quebec and end the two-language system. It makes no sense that the entirety of Canada should be forced to post signs in French as though the monolingual francophone bigots of Quebec like to travel far outside of their borders.
 
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Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

Call it what it is. The current Quebec government are run by a bunch of regressive xenophobic bigots who are using this supposedly "secular" law to crack down on non-Quebecois racial and religious minorities. This is what allowing separatist accommodation within a sovereign nation does: the fostering of balkanization. Canada should never have forced the recognition of French as its official second language in order to placate the Quebecois. It only serves to foster further division.

This law represents another example of resurgant conservatism trampling on the liberal values that have made Canada such a great place to live. Bad as it is, I'm confident it's just a momentary backslide.
The French language isn't a problem here.
 
Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

True, but such accommodation only helps foster further division and encourages greater brinksmanship. Canada should stand up to the racists and xenophobes in Quebec and end the two-language system. It makes no sense that the entirety of Canada should be forced to post signs in French as though the monolingual francophone bigots of Quebec like to travel far outside of their borders.

Interesting. I agree that a country should one common language. Maybe the US adapt such an idea.
 
Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

It does not follow. They're highly Catholic.

French Catholic. That is, virulently bigoted towards racial, religious and ethnic minorities. Just take a look at France and see how nicely Jews, black French and Muslims are treated to get a sample.
 
Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

True, but such accommodation only helps foster further division and encourages greater brinksmanship. Canada should have stood up from the start and should now stand up to the racists and xenophobes in Quebec and end the two-language system. It makes no sense that the entirety of Canada should be forced to post signs in French as though the monolingual francophone bigots of Quebec like to travel far outside of their borders.

I once drove past a KFC in rural Quebec. The sign was only in French: Poulet Frites a la Kentucky.

My wife brought home from Vancouver a box of English muffins. The labeling was bilingual. The French version: Les Muffins des Anglais.
 
Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

Or maybe Quebec wants to keep its culture in place. What happened to the concept of immigrants adapting to their new country.

Unless the culture is "We don't want non-white folks or people who wear religious garb that stands out in relation to our own" a person can maintain the outward trappings of their religious faith AND be faithful citizens of their country. The Jews, Sikhs, Hindus and Muslims of Quebec can and have learned to speak French and can and do consider themselves just as Quebecois as those French Canadians who can trace their ancestry back to the beaver fur trappers sent over in the 1600s by King Louis XIV.
 
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Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

French Catholic. That is, virulently bigoted towards racial, religious and ethnic minorities. Just take a look at France and see how nicely Jews, black French and Muslims are treated to get a sample.
Perhaps. But it would seem they're throwing-out their Crosses with the Prayer Beads and Stars of David.
 
Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

Perhaps. But it would seem they're throwing-out their Crosses with the Prayer Beads and Stars of David.

As I recall, they are allowed to wear those if they are small enough.
 
Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

This law represents another example of resurgant conservatism trampling on the liberal values that have made Canada such a great place to live. Bad as it is, I'm confident it's just a momentary backslide.
The French language isn't a problem here.

The French language is not the problem. I am not saying that Canada should have gone into Quebec in the 1960s through the 1980s with literal language police and jailed the French speakers. I am saying that it is the forced accommodation that is the problem. The Canadian government gave in partially to the worst elements among the Quebecois nationalists and changed their country's language laws around to accommodate them. One would think that this would foster greater amity and social cohesion, but it never does and certainly did not in the case of Canada. Instead, as always, it promoted division. Because it is the government saying that they recognize that some citizens belong in a category all their own. That in turn fosters feelings of inferiority in some, superiority in others, but a sense of being "othered" by all. And it only further encourages the nationalists to greater acts of brinksmanship and xenophobic policies in order to maintain that categorical difference, as we see now.
 
Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

The French language is not the problem. I am not saying that Canada should have gone into Quebec in the 1960s through the 1980s with literal language police and jailed the French speakers. I am saying that it is the forced accommodation that is the problem. The Canadian government gave in partially to the worst elements among the Quebecois nationalists and changed their country's language laws around to accommodate them. One would think that this would foster greater amity and social cohesion, but it never does and certainly did not in the case of Canada. Instead, as always, it promoted division. Because it is the government saying that they recognize that some citizens belong in a category all their own. That in turn fosters feelings of inferiority in some, superiority in others, but a sense of being "othered" by all. And it only further encourages the nationalists to greater acts of brinksmanship and xenophobic policies in order to maintain that categorical difference, as we see now.

You see nationalists, I see conservatives. If it were xenophobia I'd expect Christian symbols to be exempt, Quebec being a pretty Catholic society, but Christian symbols are included in the ban.
Having said that, were I in Quebec I'd defy the law however I could. I grew pot here before it was legal and when I wasn't using it just because defying bad laws is how you get them changed and I'm hopeful this law will be defyed too.
 
Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

True, but such accommodation only helps foster further division and encourages greater brinksmanship. Canada should have stood up from the start and should now stand up to the racists and xenophobes in Quebec and end the two-language system. It makes no sense that the entirety of Canada should be forced to post signs in French as though the monolingual francophone bigots of Quebec like to travel far outside of their borders.

I ask politely, are you familiar with Quebec's history?

I and not defending this law

Quebec Act | Great Britain [1774] | Britannica

Quebec Act, act of the British Parliament in 1774 that vested the government of Quebec in a governor and council and preserved the French Civil Code, the seigneurial system of land tenure, and the Roman Catholic Church. The act was an attempt to deal with major questions that had arisen during the attempt to make the French colony of Canada a province of the British Empire in North America. Among these were whether an assembly should be summoned, when nearly all the inhabitants of the province of Quebec, being Roman Catholics, would, because of the Test Acts, be ineligible to be representatives; whether the practice of the Roman Catholic religion should be allowed to continue, and on what conditions; and whether French or English law was to be used in the courts of justice.

The act, declaring it inexpedient to call an assembly, put the power to legislate in the hands of the governor and his council. The practice of the Roman Catholic religion was allowed, and the church was authorized to continue to collect the tithe. The Test Act was waived and an oath of allegiance substituted so as to allow Roman Catholics to hold office. French civil law continued, but the criminal law was to be English. Because of these provisions the act has been called a generous and statesmanlike attempt to deal with the peculiar conditions of the province.
 
Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

I ask politely, are you familiar with Quebec's history?

I and not defending this law

Quebec Act | Great Britain [1774] | Britannica

I am not going to pretend to be any expert on the subject of Quebec and its history vis-a-vis British Imperialism and its incorporation into British Canada. However, I can and will argue what Canada did wrong in order to placate Quebec's worst elements and forestall secession. A sovereign nation should not allow its corporate states to secede, even by democratic referendum. And it should certainly not try to bribe ultra-nationalists into remaining via such placation by recognizing Quebec's "special status." Such categorizations only serve to entrench division and promote balkanization, harming both the people living within the specially-assigned territory AND weakening the polity itself.
 
Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

This is pretty interesting, given the very high incidence of Catholicism among the Quebecois.
It’s a secular society.
 
Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

I am not going to pretend to be any expert on the subject of Quebec and its history vis-a-vis British Imperialism and its incorporation into British Canada. However, I can and will argue what Canada did wrong in order to placate Quebec's worst elements and forestall secession. A sovereign nation should not allow its corporate states to secede, even by democratic referendum. And it should certainly not try to bribe ultra-nationalists into remaining via such placation by recognizing Quebec's "special status." Such categorizations only serve to entrench division and promote balkanization, harming both the people living within the specially-assigned territory AND weakening the polity itself.

There was a vote- PQ lost- not by much

Guaranteed by our Constitution= special status


Our Court has ruled on seceding- all Canadian Provinces also have to approve Quebec seceding

Now when Trudeau opened immigration from other countries, many went to Quebec.

So as each decade passes the Separatists (PQ) bloc gets smaller.

Yes shxt happens, many arguments for and against specific Quebec policies

But they will not separate. Not happening
 
Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

I am not going to pretend to be any expert on the subject of Quebec and its history vis-a-vis British Imperialism and its incorporation into British Canada. However, I can and will argue what Canada did wrong in order to placate Quebec's worst elements and forestall secession. A sovereign nation should not allow its corporate states to secede, even by democratic referendum. And it should certainly not try to bribe ultra-nationalists into remaining via such placation by recognizing Quebec's "special status." Such categorizations only serve to entrench division and promote balkanization, harming both the people living within the specially-assigned territory AND weakening the polity itself.

It is called the right to self-determination. Quebec is an integral part of Canada, just like Catalonia is to Spain, or Scotland to the UK, but they have every right to secede if their people choose to do so. Also all regions with their own unique identities and customs that make them distinct and recognition of that is vital to these regions participating in the greater state. Every province in Canada can do the same things Quebec does, they just choose not too. California and Texas have the same right if they really want to.

As an English-Canadian living in Quebec I despise the idea of Quebec sovereignty and nationalism. It is dominated by xenophobia, French-supremacy, and now for some reason communism but they have every right to it. Good thing at least the sovereigntism part is mostly irrelevant these days but soft-nationalism has risen in its place.
 
Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

It is called the right to self-determination. Quebec is an integral part of Canada, just like Catalonia is to Spain, or Scotland to the UK, but they have every right to secede if their people choose to do so. Also all regions with their own unique identities and customs that make them distinct and recognition of that is vital to these regions participating in the greater state. Every province in Canada can do the same things Quebec does, they just choose not too. California and Texas have the same right if they really want to.

As an English-Canadian living in Quebec I despise the idea of Quebec sovereignty and nationalism. It is dominated by xenophobia, French-supremacy, and now for some reason communism but they have every right to it. Good thing at least the sovereigntism part is mostly irrelevant these days but soft-nationalism has risen in its place.

Here is the problem, Carjosse. I think you are confusing regional differences with the suppression of individual liberties under the law. This defense of regional sovereignty could just as easily have been raised as a defense of segregation in the 1960s of the American Southern states, or of Apartheid South Africa. A particular manner of dress, or dance, or language, or cuisine is perfectly acceptable. I do not argue for total homogeneity. But I argue for equal treatment under the law. Treating entire classes of people as second-class citizens for failing to belong to the correct race, religion, or culture is not something a sovereign nation in which rule of law remains like Canada has to accept, nor should it accept.
 
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Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

It’s a secular society.

"Secular" is not the same thing as anti-religious on sectarian grounds. These Quebecois nationalist bigots are not being secular. Secular simply means the government not imposing religious strictures upon people. Real secular governments (local, state and federal) accept all religious persons and do not place restrictions upon people on the basis of their outward religious trappings. These laws are sectarian, pure and simple, and are meant to eject as many Jews and brown people from the public life as they can get away with. It is disgusting. It is oppressive. It is evil. I only wish the Canadian government had the stones to apply its worthless Human Rights Act laws to some actual bigots with actual political power who are actually engaged in harming minorities like these bastard children of the Parti Quebecois, and imprisoned the lot of them. I won't hold my breath.
 
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Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

"Secular" is not the same thing as anti-religious on sectarian grounds. These Quebecois nationalist bigots are not being secular. Secular simply means the government not imposing religious strictures upon people. Real secular governments (local, state and federal) accept all religious persons and do not place restrictions upon people on the basis of their outward religious trappings. These laws are sectarian, pure and simple, and are meant to eject as many Jews and brown people from the public life as they can get away with. It is disgusting. It is oppressive. It is evil. I only wish the Canadian government had the stones to apply its worthless Human Rights Act laws to some actual bigots with actual political power who are actually engaged in harming minorities like these bastard children of the Parti Quebecois, and imprisoned the lot of them. I won't hold my breath.
My definition of secular, in the context I was using it, was that the Catholic Church no longer controls the province and the people are far less religious than they once were. I’m a Franco Ontarien and live very close to the border and work in Quebec often. Definitely an element of xenophobia there, that’s not unique to Quebec. I can’t say I agree with this law, it goes too far - but I also don’t like to see women placed in bags.
 
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