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Thread: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public servi

  1. #21
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    Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

    Quote Originally Posted by Felis Leo View Post
    I am not going to pretend to be any expert on the subject of Quebec and its history vis-a-vis British Imperialism and its incorporation into British Canada. However, I can and will argue what Canada did wrong in order to placate Quebec's worst elements and forestall secession. A sovereign nation should not allow its corporate states to secede, even by democratic referendum. And it should certainly not try to bribe ultra-nationalists into remaining via such placation by recognizing Quebec's "special status." Such categorizations only serve to entrench division and promote balkanization, harming both the people living within the specially-assigned territory AND weakening the polity itself.
    There was a vote- PQ lost- not by much

    Guaranteed by our Constitution= special status


    Our Court has ruled on seceding- all Canadian Provinces also have to approve Quebec seceding

    Now when Trudeau opened immigration from other countries, many went to Quebec.

    So as each decade passes the Separatists (PQ) bloc gets smaller.

    Yes shxt happens, many arguments for and against specific Quebec policies

    But they will not separate. Not happening
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    Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

    Quote Originally Posted by Felis Leo View Post
    I am not going to pretend to be any expert on the subject of Quebec and its history vis-a-vis British Imperialism and its incorporation into British Canada. However, I can and will argue what Canada did wrong in order to placate Quebec's worst elements and forestall secession. A sovereign nation should not allow its corporate states to secede, even by democratic referendum. And it should certainly not try to bribe ultra-nationalists into remaining via such placation by recognizing Quebec's "special status." Such categorizations only serve to entrench division and promote balkanization, harming both the people living within the specially-assigned territory AND weakening the polity itself.
    It is called the right to self-determination. Quebec is an integral part of Canada, just like Catalonia is to Spain, or Scotland to the UK, but they have every right to secede if their people choose to do so. Also all regions with their own unique identities and customs that make them distinct and recognition of that is vital to these regions participating in the greater state. Every province in Canada can do the same things Quebec does, they just choose not too. California and Texas have the same right if they really want to.

    As an English-Canadian living in Quebec I despise the idea of Quebec sovereignty and nationalism. It is dominated by xenophobia, French-supremacy, and now for some reason communism but they have every right to it. Good thing at least the sovereigntism part is mostly irrelevant these days but soft-nationalism has risen in its place.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    It is called the right to self-determination. Quebec is an integral part of Canada, just like Catalonia is to Spain, or Scotland to the UK, but they have every right to secede if their people choose to do so. Also all regions with their own unique identities and customs that make them distinct and recognition of that is vital to these regions participating in the greater state. Every province in Canada can do the same things Quebec does, they just choose not too. California and Texas have the same right if they really want to.

    As an English-Canadian living in Quebec I despise the idea of Quebec sovereignty and nationalism. It is dominated by xenophobia, French-supremacy, and now for some reason communism but they have every right to it. Good thing at least the sovereigntism part is mostly irrelevant these days but soft-nationalism has risen in its place.
    Here is the problem, Carjosse. I think you are confusing regional differences with the suppression of individual liberties under the law. This defense of regional sovereignty could just as easily have been raised as a defense of segregation in the 1960s of the American Southern states, or of Apartheid South Africa. A particular manner of dress, or dance, or language, or cuisine is perfectly acceptable. I do not argue for total homogeneity. But I argue for equal treatment under the law. Treating entire classes of people as second-class citizens for failing to belong to the correct race, religion, or culture is not something a sovereign nation in which rule of law remains like Canada has to accept, nor should it accept.
    Last edited by Felis Leo; 03-07-20 at 11:26 PM.
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    Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

    Quote Originally Posted by can2man View Post
    It’s a secular society.
    "Secular" is not the same thing as anti-religious on sectarian grounds. These Quebecois nationalist bigots are not being secular. Secular simply means the government not imposing religious strictures upon people. Real secular governments (local, state and federal) accept all religious persons and do not place restrictions upon people on the basis of their outward religious trappings. These laws are sectarian, pure and simple, and are meant to eject as many Jews and brown people from the public life as they can get away with. It is disgusting. It is oppressive. It is evil. I only wish the Canadian government had the stones to apply its worthless Human Rights Act laws to some actual bigots with actual political power who are actually engaged in harming minorities like these bastard children of the Parti Quebecois, and imprisoned the lot of them. I won't hold my breath.
    Last edited by Felis Leo; 03-07-20 at 11:34 PM.
    Itís in the small things that the rot starts. Do the wrong thing once, itís easier to do it again. Do the individualistic thing once, it is easy to do it again.

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    Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

    Quote Originally Posted by Felis Leo View Post
    "Secular" is not the same thing as anti-religious on sectarian grounds. These Quebecois nationalist bigots are not being secular. Secular simply means the government not imposing religious strictures upon people. Real secular governments (local, state and federal) accept all religious persons and do not place restrictions upon people on the basis of their outward religious trappings. These laws are sectarian, pure and simple, and are meant to eject as many Jews and brown people from the public life as they can get away with. It is disgusting. It is oppressive. It is evil. I only wish the Canadian government had the stones to apply its worthless Human Rights Act laws to some actual bigots with actual political power who are actually engaged in harming minorities like these bastard children of the Parti Quebecois, and imprisoned the lot of them. I won't hold my breath.
    My definition of secular, in the context I was using it, was that the Catholic Church no longer controls the province and the people are far less religious than they once were. I’m a Franco Ontarien and live very close to the border and work in Quebec often. Definitely an element of xenophobia there, that’s not unique to Quebec. I can’t say I agree with this law, it goes too far - but I also don’t like to see women placed in bags.

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    Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

    There was a time when Montreal was Canada's most important city. Now...it's like Montri-who?

    My how fast being non-English speaking can take you down.
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    Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    This law represents another example of resurgant conservatism trampling on the liberal values that have made Canada such a great place to live. Bad as it is, I'm confident it's just a momentary backslide.
    The French language isn't a problem here.
    There is nothing conservative in forbidding a fundamentalist Protestant teacher to wear a cross in his lapel.

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    Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    There was a time when Montreal was Canada's most important city. Now...it's like Montri-who?

    My how fast being non-English speaking can take you down.

  9. #29
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    Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

    Quote Originally Posted by can2man View Post
    My definition of secular, in the context I was using it, was that the Catholic Church no longer controls the province and the people are far less religious than they once were. I’m a Franco Ontarien and live very close to the border and work in Quebec often. Definitely an element of xenophobia there, that’s not unique to Quebec. I can’t say I agree with this law, it goes too far - but I also don’t like to see women placed in bags.
    Well, let me make myself clear. I do not like women being placed under the mind-forged manacles of a religion (or pressured by their religious community) into accepting being part of a permanent lower order. I despise Islam as a religion and as a political force, as many despise Catholicism, Mormonism or Jehovah's Witnesses for their oppression of people within the confines of their communities. My mother, her family and her friends suffered as members of a religious minority in Iran, a country dominated by political Islam, and I hold many of the exponents of the religion in complete contempt.

    That having been said, I do not hate the practitioners of Islam. And neither I nor anyone can say "I care so deeply about the oppression of Muslim women within Islam-dominated countries and communities!" but then turn around and force these same women out of public life. Anyone who claims that they are doing this for the good of practicing Muslim women...forcing them to choose between their faith and community versus a career and a public life are speaking out of both sides of their mouths. The same goes for Jews, Sikhs and Hindus.

    I only hope that the national government cracks down on this and does more than shake a disappointed admonishing finger at these bigots.
    Itís in the small things that the rot starts. Do the wrong thing once, itís easier to do it again. Do the individualistic thing once, it is easy to do it again.

    Fiat justitia, et pereat mundus

  10. #30
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    Re: Since the Quebec government banned schoolteachers, police officers, prosecutors & other public s

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    There was a time when Montreal was Canada's most important city. Now...it's like Montri-who?

    My how fast being non-English speaking can take you down.
    Or being a member of a non-white religious minority, for that matter.
    Itís in the small things that the rot starts. Do the wrong thing once, itís easier to do it again. Do the individualistic thing once, it is easy to do it again.

    Fiat justitia, et pereat mundus

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