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Alberta's new budget is a head scratcher

Carjosse

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So I was reading my Google News feed and found this CBC article about Alberta's new "budgeting". Basically Alberta's government wants to give handouts to the oil industry at the expense of students, other low-income individuals, and the disabled as well as driving away doctors and pissing off Edmonton and Calgary as added bonuses. Apparently economic diversification is a luxury and makes the economy weaker. Diversification is a necessity, something Alberta does not seem to understand. This is why the rest of Canada does not want to help Alberta. This makes Rob Ford's budgeting skills look genius. Though I guess this great news for other provinces.
 
So I was reading my Google News feed and found this CBC article about Alberta's new "budgeting". Basically Alberta's government wants to give handouts to the oil industry at the expense of students, other low-income individuals, and the disabled as well as driving away doctors and pissing off Edmonton and Calgary as added bonuses. Apparently economic diversification is a luxury and makes the economy weaker. Diversification is a necessity, something Alberta does not seem to understand. This is why the rest of Canada does not want to help Alberta. This makes Rob Ford's budgeting skills look genius. Though I guess this great news for other provinces.
Sounds like they've been taking lessons from below the 49th. I suggest they find a better role model.
 
Bills 20 and 21 are only two of the measures that Mr. Kenney's conservatives are setting out in the 2019 budget to radically liberalise the economy for the benefit of business and to undo much of social safety net enjoyed by Albertans. It is an ideological budget rather than a pragmatic one.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
So I was reading my Google News feed and found this CBC article about Alberta's new "budgeting". Basically Alberta's government wants to give handouts to the oil industry at the expense of students, other low-income individuals, and the disabled as well as driving away doctors and pissing off Edmonton and Calgary as added bonuses. Apparently economic diversification is a luxury and makes the economy weaker. Diversification is a necessity, something Alberta does not seem to understand. This is why the rest of Canada does not want to help Alberta. This makes Rob Ford's budgeting skills look genius. Though I guess this great news for other provinces.
The budget is about saving money to reduce the provincial deficit.

Where are you getting "handouts to the oil industry" from?
 
Bills 20 and 21 are only two of the measures that Mr. Kenney's conservatives are setting out in the 2019 budget to radically liberalise the economy for the benefit of business and to undo much of social safety net enjoyed by Albertans. It is an ideological budget rather than a pragmatic one.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
And here I thought "not going bankrupt" was pragmatic. :roll:

Liberals.

Tax. Spend. Tax. Spend. Tax. Spend. Oh look! Our debt is blotting out the sun. How about that?

Tax. Spend. Tax. Spend. Tax. Spend. ...
 
And here I thought "not going bankrupt" was pragmatic. :roll:

Liberals.

Tax. Spend. Tax. Spend. Tax. Spend. Oh look! Our debt is blotting out the sun. How about that?

Tax. Spend. Tax. Spend. Tax. Spend. ...

COTO:

Cut the lavish subsidies to the oil industry and the deficit is mostly fixed. Then make more careful cuts to the rest of Government spending. Increase well-head taxes/royalties for oil and tar sands production and offset these higher costs by charging the Americans more for crude oil which they are refining and exporting for their own profit. Build one or more refineries in Western Canada and ship refined oil to the rest of Canada keeping the value added in Alberta. Diversify the Prairie economy with new energy technologies (solar, wind, wood pulp fuel, bio fuel), better agricultural practices, biotechnology and bio-engineering and bio-industrial development, sylviculture, and old-fashioned infrastructure building as an economically vibrant gateway to the north. Boost immigration to the West so that the Western population grows and off-sets the demographic dominance of the central Canadian population. Make Alberta and the Prairies hum.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
More to the point

The budget is lowering corporate income taxes which will matter only to existing companies in Alberta, while cutting grants that would attract and diversify the Alberta economy. It is cutting grants to the Movie and TV industry, a $400 million a year business in Alberta which is dwarfed by the revenue generated by that industry in Vancouver or Toronto. That industry will shrink in Alberta. They are cutting grants to the high tech sector, which has already caused some BC based companies to reconsider setting up offices in Calgary.

The Conservatives are doubling down on the O&G industry, and will hurt all other potential non resource involved sectors of the economy.

Negatives.

Cutting indexing to inflation for support payments to the disabled. The disabled get $1600 a month in support payments previously indexed to inflation. For a province in which. That is not a lot of money for people who probably have a lot of medical issues that raise their cost of living.

Increasing the processing fees for traffic tickets. That will reduce the amount of money the police forces (cities) have. The Calgary PD will see funding decrease by $16 million a year. That is likely equivalent to over 160 positions at the CPD because of that

The LRT (like a subway but at ground level) Green line in Alberta which was promised 1.5 billion from the province (one third of funding, with one third coming from the city and 1/3 coming from the fed) has been told that the province can cut its funding at any time during the project

The province is going to force doctors to practice where the province tells them if they want to be paid for their services. They will not be able to apply and work in city hospitals if the province says no.

Neutral. The province is seeking pay cuts for governmental employees between 2-5%. Lots of labour strife in the next couple years

No cuts to primary education ( K-12) but only small increases below rates of population growth and inflation.

Prediction. If the price for oil and gas do not increase, and the royalty revenues increase dramatically the Conservative party will be voted out in the next election. The eventual cuts to health care, and education (which make up 70% of the budget) along with the cuts to Police and Justice Departments will I expect see plenty of people become very upset. Taxes in Alberta at least for people are the lowest in the country. Province income tax is quite low, property taxes are about 60% that in Calgary compared to Winnipeg and Saskatoon (cities which I have compared property taxes on).

It seems the conservatives are intent on ruining Calgary's status as one of the most livable cities in the world. I expect they would prefer Calgary to look more like Santiago Chile
 
The budget is about saving money to reduce the provincial deficit.

Where are you getting "handouts to the oil industry" from?

Because that is what the spending side of the budget consists of, tax cuts and subsidies for the oil industry.

They could increase revenues by raising taxes on those not heavily impacted by the increase, Alberta is currently underutilizing it's tax base. How is targeting the most vulnerable and preventing long-term diversification of the economy somehow a good thing?
 
Because that is what the spending side of the budget consists of, tax cuts and subsidies for the oil industry.

They could increase revenues by raising taxes on those not heavily impacted by the increase, Alberta is currently underutilizing it's tax base. How is targeting the most vulnerable and preventing long-term diversification of the economy somehow a good thing?


More to the point, they could and should raise royalties payments on the oil and gas produced

History of Alberta royalties | Alberta.ca

TotalRoyaltyRevenueByProductStream-v2.png


A dramatic decrease in royalty payments over the last 14 years, Dropping from a high of just over 10 billion down to around 2.2 billion in 2016. Despite oil production increasing by a good 70 over that time frame. To be honest I had no idea it had dropped that much and to that little. That drop would cover 70% of the deficit by itself.

Albertans are giving away their wealth to the oil companies for next to nothing.
 
A dramatic decrease in royalty payments over the last 14 years, Dropping from a high of just over 10 billion down to around 2.2 billion in 2016. Despite oil production increasing by a good 70 over that time frame. To be honest I had no idea it had dropped that much and to that little. That drop would cover 70% of the deficit by itself.

Albertans are giving away their wealth to the oil companies for next to nothing.

Definitely. It's an outright shame that we didn't go with the Norway model of managing our resource wealth generally, and Alberta specifically.
 
And here I thought "not going bankrupt" was pragmatic. :roll:

Liberals.

Tax. Spend. Tax. Spend. Tax. Spend. Oh look! Our debt is blotting out the sun. How about that?

Tax. Spend. Tax. Spend. Tax. Spend. ...

Liberals. The previous Liberal administration brought in 8 or 9 successive surplus budgets, which was followed by the Harper Conservatives putting us back solidly in the red. And our debt-toGDP would be the envy of lots of bigger economies than ours, including the one to the south. Even now, Trudeau would have to work harder at it to equal the budget deficits the Conservatives saddled us with.
 
COTO:

Cut the lavish subsidies to the oil industry and the deficit is mostly fixed. Then make more careful cuts to the rest of Government spending. Increase well-head taxes/royalties for oil and tar sands production and offset these higher costs by charging the Americans more for crude oil which they are refining and exporting for their own profit. Build one or more refineries in Western Canada and ship refined oil to the rest of Canada keeping the value added in Alberta. Diversify the Prairie economy with new energy technologies (solar, wind, wood pulp fuel, bio fuel), better agricultural practices, biotechnology and bio-engineering and bio-industrial development, sylviculture, and old-fashioned infrastructure building as an economically vibrant gateway to the north. Boost immigration to the West so that the Western population grows and off-sets the demographic dominance of the central Canadian population. Make Alberta and the Prairies hum.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
First of all, even if we take every last dime given to the oil industry, including funding for research, funding for cleaner environmental practices, transcontinental shipping (due to the stalled pipelines), and royalty breaks/capital incentives in line with other major Alberta industries (also, in line with literally every other oil-producing state or province in North America), we only get to $2.2 billion. The 2018-2019 deficit is shaping up to be $6.7 billion, hence sticking it to Big Oil isn't going to "mostly fix" anything.

Royalty costs can't be offset "by charging the Americans more for crude oil" because, like it or not, we live in a global economy. Uncle Sam is more than happy to get his oil from OPEC, Russia, or anywhere else he pleases. In fact, Hollywood has done such a hit job on Alberta in its crusade against oil that Alberta is bordering on "lucky" the US still takes the stuff from us. It used to be we could reason with people, "This oil is cleaner, safer, more responsibly extracted, and more ethical than oil you'll find anywhere else on Earth," but the Hollywood hit squad snuffed out that advantage post haste.

Building refineries in Western Canada is a good idea, but as someone who has relatives in the industry, I can tell you with authority that it's far more easily said than done. It requires huge amounts of capital (and guess where 92% of North America's capital comes from: it starts with a "U" and ends with an "SA"), it faces all kinds of social and environmental hurdles, and it's risky due to the cyclical nature of O/G prices.

I suppose the government could invest some of the capital needed in building the refineries, but... oop... there's a few billion more in O&G subsidies they can't afford.

Diversification is important, but balanced budgets are more important at this cosmic moment in time. If you can accomplish the former while satisfying the latter, more power to you.

Finally, immigration only gets things "humming" if the people immigrating are producing more than they're consuming from the public sector. How does one ensure this is the case? By making sure one's budget is balanced with a modest tax load. As long as people are willing to immigrate with modest taxes and social services cut back to a level that doesn't run a deficit, immigrate away.

Because that is what the spending side of the budget consists of, tax cuts and subsidies for the oil industry.
I'm not seeing anything significant related to either in the CBC article. Which bullet point are these cuts and subsidies hidden in?

Alberta is currently underutilizing it's tax base.
:lol:

Props for finding a diplomatic way of saying "Alberta isn't taxing the absolute snot out of every warm body."

A dramatic decrease in royalty payments over the last 14 years, Dropping from a high of just over 10 billion down to around 2.2 billion in 2016. Despite oil production increasing by a good 70 over that time frame. To be honest I had no idea it had dropped that much and to that little. That drop would cover 70% of the deficit by itself.
There's something called "the price of oil", which has a (slight) impact on profits in the O&G industry, and by extension, provincial royalties.

Perhaps you'd care to overlay your royalties chart with a chart of the prices of oil and gas over the same period of time. You might notice a (slight) bit of a correlation between the two.
 
Even now, Trudeau would have to work harder at it to equal the budget deficits the Conservatives saddled us with.
He's obviously working really hard at it, then, because he's blown the Harper government average out of the water every single year he's been in office. Excepting the 2008/2009 crash--in fairness. That year was the record for bad, and Harper was at the helm.

More to the point: I'm not plugging the Conservatives in this thread. I'm plugging whatever party will balance the damned provincial (or federal) budget without hiking taxes.
 
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First of all, even if we take every last dime given to the oil industry, including funding for research, funding for cleaner environmental practices, transcontinental shipping (due to the stalled pipelines), and royalty breaks/capital incentives in line with other major Alberta industries (also, in line with literally every other oil-producing state or province in North America), we only get to $2.2 billion. The 2018-2019 deficit is shaping up to be $6.7 billion, hence sticking it to Big Oil isn't going to "mostly fix" anything.

Royalty costs can't be offset "by charging the Americans more for crude oil" because, like it or not, we live in a global economy. Uncle Sam is more than happy to get his oil from OPEC, Russia, or anywhere else he pleases. In fact, Hollywood has done such a hit job on Alberta in its crusade against oil that Alberta is bordering on "lucky" the US still takes the stuff from us. It used to be we could reason with people, "This oil is cleaner, safer, more responsibly extracted, and more ethical than oil you'll find anywhere else on Earth," but the Hollywood hit squad snuffed out that advantage post haste.

Building refineries in Western Canada is a good idea, but as someone who has relatives in the industry, I can tell you with authority that it's far more easily said than done. It requires huge amounts of capital (and guess where 92% of North America's capital comes from: it starts with a "U" and ends with an "SA"), it faces all kinds of social and environmental hurdles, and it's risky due to the cyclical nature of O/G prices.

I suppose the government could invest some of the capital needed in building the refineries, but... oop... there's a few billion more in O&G subsidies they can't afford.

Diversification is important, but balanced budgets are more important at this cosmic moment in time. If you can accomplish the former while satisfying the latter, more power to you.

Finally, immigration only gets things "humming" if the people immigrating are producing more than they're consuming from the public sector. How does one ensure this is the case? By making sure one's budget is balanced with a modest tax load. As long as people are willing to immigrate with modest taxes and social services cut back to a level that doesn't run a deficit, immigrate away.


I'm not seeing anything significant related to either in the CBC article. Which bullet point are these cuts and subsidies hidden in?


:lol:

Props for finding a diplomatic way of saying "Alberta isn't taxing the absolute snot out of every warm body."


There's something called "the price of oil", which has a (slight) impact on profits in the O&G industry, and by extension, provincial royalties.

Perhaps you'd care to overlay your royalties chart with a chart of the prices of oil and gas over the same period of time. You might notice a (slight) bit of a correlation between the two.
Should include a flat rate per barrel and a rider that increases with the price of oil. I am Albertan, and do not like to see the wealth be given out for nearly free
 
First of all, even if we take every last dime given to the oil industry, including funding for research, funding for cleaner environmental practices, transcontinental shipping (due to the stalled pipelines), and royalty breaks/capital incentives in line with other major Alberta industries (also, in line with literally every other oil-producing state or province in North America), we only get to $2.2 billion. The 2018-2019 deficit is shaping up to be $6.7 billion, hence sticking it to Big Oil isn't going to "mostly fix" anything.

Royalty costs can't be offset "by charging the Americans more for crude oil" because, like it or not, we live in a global economy. Uncle Sam is more than happy to get his oil from OPEC, Russia, or anywhere else he pleases. In fact, Hollywood has done such a hit job on Alberta in its crusade against oil that Alberta is bordering on "lucky" the US still takes the stuff from us. It used to be we could reason with people, "This oil is cleaner, safer, more responsibly extracted, and more ethical than oil you'll find anywhere else on Earth," but the Hollywood hit squad snuffed out that advantage post haste.

Building refineries in Western Canada is a good idea, but as someone who has relatives in the industry, I can tell you with authority that it's far more easily said than done. It requires huge amounts of capital (and guess where 92% of North America's capital comes from: it starts with a "U" and ends with an "SA"), it faces all kinds of social and environmental hurdles, and it's risky due to the cyclical nature of O/G prices.

I suppose the government could invest some of the capital needed in building the refineries, but... oop... there's a few billion more in O&G subsidies they can't afford.

Diversification is important, but balanced budgets are more important at this cosmic moment in time. If you can accomplish the former while satisfying the latter, more power to you.

Finally, immigration only gets things "humming" if the people immigrating are producing more than they're consuming from the public sector. How does one ensure this is the case? By making sure one's budget is balanced with a modest tax load. As long as people are willing to immigrate with modest taxes and social services cut back to a level that doesn't run a deficit, immigrate away.


I'm not seeing anything significant related to either in the CBC article. Which bullet point are these cuts and subsidies hidden in?


:lol:

Props for finding a diplomatic way of saying "Alberta isn't taxing the absolute snot out of every warm body."


There's something called "the price of oil", which has a (slight) impact on profits in the O&G industry, and by extension, provincial royalties.

Perhaps you'd care to overlay your royalties chart with a chart of the prices of oil and gas over the same period of time. You might notice a (slight) bit of a correlation between the two.

Maybe if you paid attention to the news you would know. Alberta has a young high income population, no provincial sales tax, and absurdly low income taxes when compared with the rest of the country yet complain they do not have any money. You need economic diversification wants to have long-term success, they spend the money now, not substantially more later.
 
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