Aboriginal Genocide in Canada?

Evilroddy · Jun 5, 2019

The recent report and findings of the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women of Canada Commission (MMIWC) has concluded that genocide had and continues to occur in Canada against First Nations peoples and especially First Nations women. Is this a legitimate set of conclusions? If so, why? If not, why?

‘The g-word’: Why it matters whether we call Canada’s actions toward Indigenous people a genocide | National Post

Organization of American States wants to probe MMIWG allegation of ‘genocide’ - National | Globalnews.ca

Scroll down to links for the actual documents:

Final Report | MMIWG

Cheers?
Evilroddy.

bearpoker · Jun 5, 2019

Evilroddy said:
The recent report and findings of the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women of Canada Commission (MMIWC) has concluded that genocide had and continues to occur in Canada against First Nations peoples and especially First Nations women. Is this a legitimate set of conclusions? If so, why? If not, why?

‘The g-word’: Why it matters whether we call Canada’s actions toward Indigenous people a genocide | National Post

Organization of American States wants to probe MMIWG allegation of ‘genocide’ - National | Globalnews.ca

Cheers?
Evilroddy.

You need to site a source for this so that people can evaluate the evidence before anyone can comment.

Gus Fring · Jun 5, 2019

It's about time frankly. The amount of negationism white people in North America have about their historical past is appalling

Evilroddy · Jun 5, 2019

bearpoker said:
You need to site a source for this so that people can evaluate the evidence before anyone can comment.

Bearpoker:

Thank you for the suggestion and I edited my OP with a link to the documents. You have to scroll down and click on further links but they're all there.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Carjosse · Jun 5, 2019

I disagree with calling it a genocide. Justice and law enforcement issue yes, a crime problem yes, a failure to to provide resources and assistance to potentially vulnerable people yes, but a genocide absolutely not.

Residential schools, that was cultural genocide. This has nothing to do with the concept of genocide.

Grand Mal · Jun 5, 2019

Carjosse said:
I disagree with calling it a genocide. Justice and law enforcement issue yes, a crime problem yes, a failure to to provide resources and assistance to potentially vulnerable people yes, but a genocide absolutely not.

Residential schools, that was cultural genocide. This has nothing to do with the concept of genocide.

The UN has a pretty broad definition of genocide. It's in the GlobalNews link. Here...

"According to the 1948 United Nations Convention on Genocide, the crime is defined as: “any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part 1; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

The phrase 'intent to destroy' makes me wonder if they're not just using the word 'genocide' to be inflammatory. Me, I look at what homocide, femicide, patricide, regicide, etc. mean and reckon there's a bit of 'redefining' going on here. I'd ask why so much time has been wasted quibbling over the use of a word and nothing concrete's getting done. Highway 16, the Highway of Tears, for example. There's small towns and settlements strung along that highway and people routinely hitch-hike along there. That's where so many Native women and girls have gone missing. Some of the money and effort spent on this controversy could have gone into a local bus service. Concrete action.

Lord Tammerlain · Jun 5, 2019

Grand Mal said:
The UN has a pretty broad definition of genocide. It's in the GlobalNews link. Here...

"According to the 1948 United Nations Convention on Genocide, the crime is defined as: “any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part 1; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

The phrase 'intent to destroy' makes me wonder if they're not just using the word 'genocide' to be inflammatory. Me, I look at what homocide, femicide, patricide, regicide, etc. mean and reckon there's a bit of 'redefining' going on here. I'd ask why so much time has been wasted quibbling over the use of a word and nothing concrete's getting done. Highway 16, the Highway of Tears, for example. There's small towns and settlements strung along that highway and people routinely hitch-hike along there. That's where so many Native women and girls have gone missing. Some of the money and effort spent on this controversy could have gone into a local bus service. Concrete action.

I expect it is meant to be inflammatory, to shock people in order to get something done. I disagree it is a genocide, but wont argue over the usage as somethings do need to get done

Grand Mal · Jun 5, 2019

Lord Tammerlain said:
I expect it is meant to be inflammatory, to shock people in order to get something done. I disagree it is a genocide, but wont argue over the usage as somethings do need to get done

I won't argue about using the word either, because I agree it's a waste of time and effort. Maybe now the focus can shift to identifying specific problems and solutions. I still advocate a local bus service along BC Highway 16, for example. Other places have other problems, and in many cases the solutions are pretty simple. We've done the talking, time for the walking.

Carjosse · Jun 6, 2019

Grand Mal said:
The UN has a pretty broad definition of genocide. It's in the GlobalNews link. Here...

"According to the 1948 United Nations Convention on Genocide, the crime is defined as: “any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part 1; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

The phrase 'intent to destroy' makes me wonder if they're not just using the word 'genocide' to be inflammatory. Me, I look at what homocide, femicide, patricide, regicide, etc. mean and reckon there's a bit of 'redefining' going on here. I'd ask why so much time has been wasted quibbling over the use of a word and nothing concrete's getting done. Highway 16, the Highway of Tears, for example. There's small towns and settlements strung along that highway and people routinely hitch-hike along there. That's where so many Native women and girls have gone missing. Some of the money and effort spent on this controversy could have gone into a local bus service. Concrete action.

That is the part I disagree with, this is very clearly a crime and poverty problem, not some effort to eradicate aboriginal people. They are psychopaths and hardcore criminals taking advantage of these women, I imagine it has nothing to to do with the fact they are aboriginal. I do agree that spending more money on a bus service and police patrols would be a great, you don't need this report to tell you that.

Crystal · Jun 6, 2019

Carjosse said:
I disagree with calling it a genocide. Justice and law enforcement issue yes, a crime problem yes, a failure to to provide resources and assistance to potentially vulnerable people yes, but a genocide absolutely not.

Residential schools, that was cultural genocide. This has nothing to do with the concept of genocide.

Are you people picking on brown people? Stop it immediately.

Evilroddy · Jun 7, 2019

I think the MMIWG Commision was arguing that there has existed in Canada a genocidal state framework of policies for centuries. It is these policies which marginalised these women and girls, making them vulnerable to predation and making official reaction to their deaths or disappearances underwhelming and ineffective. Thus the killings were the result of a genocidal mindset and institutional legacy and therefore a part of that genocide.

The thousands of stories of violence heard by the National Inquiry over the three intense years of its mandate lifted the veil over the existence of a genocide perpetrated by the Canadian state against Indigenous peoples. This genocide was enabled by colonial structures and policies maintained over centuries until the present day and constitutes a root cause of the violence currently being perpetrated against Indigenous women, girls and 2SLGBTQQIA people.
Legally speaking, this genocide consists of a composite wrongful act that triggers the responsibility of the Canadian state under international law. Canada has breached its international obligations through a series of actions and omissions taken as a whole, and this breach will persist as long as genocidal acts continue to occur and destructive policies are maintained. Under international law, Canada has a duty to redress the harm it caused and to provide restitution, compensation and satisfaction to Indigenous peoples. But first and foremost, Canada’s violation of one of the most fundamental rules of international law necessitates an obligation of cessation: Canada must put an end to its perennial pattern of violence against and oppression of Indigenous peoples.

From p. 29 of: https://www.mmiwg-ffada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Supplementary-Report_Genocide.pdf

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Rue · Jun 8, 2019

They sure have watered-down the definition of Genocide in the past 20 years. Pretty soon young Bobby will come home from school with a black eye, after being bullied, and it will fit the definition of genocide.

I wish these people could just "get it together."

Buzz62 · Jun 14, 2019

Gus Fring said:
It's about time frankly. The amount of negationism white people in North America have about their historical past is appalling

Perhaps they can start by NOT taking down statues of historical figures?

PoS · Jun 14, 2019

Buzz62 said:
Perhaps they can start by NOT taking down statues of historical figures?

The McKenzie brothers have statues? Where is it? I'd like to go visit it.

Buzz62 · Jun 14, 2019

It has always been my position that the indigenous people should stop trying to live in the past. They have every right, according to the treaties, to do so, but its their choice. They could choose to live within Canadian society, get an education and have productive, healthy, happy lives. Couple that with the fact that many of these "Chiefs" receive all the money for their band, and then build themselves big-ass houses while their people live in trailers.

I'm not trying to absolve anyone for abusing people. I'm saying...I think its time for the indigenous to be completely honest about how they manage their own, and to take some responsibility for the issues they have.

Gus Fring · Jun 14, 2019

Buzz62 said:
Perhaps they can start by NOT taking down statues of historical figures?

That's not negationism, that's recognizing that white supremacist leaders were pieces of beep, the opposite of negationism

Gus Fring · Jun 14, 2019

Rue said:
They sure have watered-down the definition of Genocide in the past 20 years. Pretty soon young Bobby will come home from school with a black eye, after being bullied, and it will fit the definition of genocide.

I wish these people could just "get it together."

If you want people to pay respect to the victims of the Holocaust you must first pay respect to the victims of other manslaughters. Otherwise it's just hypocrisy.

You can't complain about Historical Revisionism when you yourself are a historical revisionist in regards to the suffering of non-white people. It's exactly this type of behaviour that fuels antisemitism.

You Jews still don't "get it together" about something that happened more than 70 years ago

Gus Fring · Jun 14, 2019

Buzz62 said:
It has always been my position that the indigenous people should stop trying to live in the past. They have every right, according to the treaties, to do so, but its their choice. They could choose to live within Canadian society, get an education and have productive, healthy, happy lives. Couple that with the fact that many of these "Chiefs" receive all the money for their band, and then build themselves big-ass houses while their people live in trailers.

I'm not trying to absolve anyone for abusing people. I'm saying...I think its time for the indigenous to be completely honest about how they manage their own, and to take some responsibility for the issues they have.

I don't understand why an Indigenous man should recognize the Canadian state tbh. There are too many white immigrants in Canada.

OlNate · Jun 14, 2019

Buzz62 said:
It has always been my position that the indigenous people should stop trying to live in the past. They have every right, according to the treaties, to do so, but its their choice. They could choose to live within Canadian society, get an education and have productive, healthy, happy lives. Couple that with the fact that many of these "Chiefs" receive all the money for their band, and then build themselves big-ass houses while their people live in trailers.

I'm not trying to absolve anyone for abusing people. I'm saying...I think its time for the indigenous to be completely honest about how they manage their own, and to take some responsibility for the issues they have.

Yeah...no doubt. They should really feel dumb, letting us in in the first place. That's on them. Or something...

Buzz62 · Jun 14, 2019

Gus Fring said:
That's not negationism, that's recognizing that Confederate leaders were pieces of beep, the opposite of negationism

The confederate leaders were pieces of beep???
Really now. Do you even know how the treaties came to existence? Did you know it was the natives themselves who insisted they wanted nothing to do with "the white man's world"?

Look...we can't absolve our nation for some of the things that have been imposed on the natives. But by the exact same token, we can't absolve the natives for imposing their own brand of isolationism and self-abuse. In short...it is most certainly NOT just "the evil white guy".

Gus Fring · Jun 14, 2019

Buzz62 said:
The confederate leaders were pieces of beep???
Really now. Do you even know how the treaties came to existence? Did you know it was the natives themselves who insisted they wanted nothing to do with "the white man's world"?

The "white man's world" is Europe, not North America.

Buzz62 said:
Look...we can't absolve our nation for some of the things that have been imposed on the natives. But by the exact same token, we can't absolve the natives for imposing their own brand of isolationism and self-abuse. In short...it is most certainly NOT just "the evil white guy".

What not wanting to be colonised has to do with "isolationism"?

Buzz62 · Jun 14, 2019

OlNate said:
Yeah...no doubt. They should really feel dumb, letting us in in the first place. That's on them. Or something...

I didn't say that Nate. Behave yourself.
And if you were to do some reading on the subject, you'd quickly find that both sides have been stubborn and stupid. Attempts to lay this all at the feet of Canada, is blatant denial and a gross lie. IMO...the natives are as much responsible for this "cultural genocide" they claim, as the rest of the nation. Perhaps more.

Buzz62 · Jun 14, 2019

Gus Fring said:
The "white man's world" is Europe, not North America.

What not wanting to be colonised has to do with "isolationism"?

Colonisation was inevitable. That's the way things worked back then...and likely still do. Canada is a product of European colonialism. That cannot be undone. Try to keep up.

As to your second asinine statement. Re-read it and tell me...what's wrong with your logic here?

Buzz62 · Jun 14, 2019

Gus Fring said:
I don't understand why an Indigenous man should recognize the Canadian state tbh. There are too many white immigrants in Canada.

Huh...
I'm trying to find words that won't get me suspended, in order to respond to this rather "different" line of thought.
But all I can come up with is..."How racist of you."
Which doesn't really express my thoughts concerning this post of yours...but it'll have to do for now.

Gus Fring · Jun 14, 2019

Buzz62 said:
Colonisation was inevitable.

Also immigration is. Yet this does not prevent you from complaining about it.

Buzz62 said:
Canada is a product of European colonialism. That cannot be undone.

It can be undone, actually.

Buzz62 said:
As to your second asinine statement. Re-read it and tell me...what's wrong with your logic here?

You just said you are OK if I enter your house without your permission and I occupy it because otherwise you would "suffer loneliness".

Aboriginal Genocide in Canada?

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