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Aboriginal Genocide in Canada?

Buzz62 said:
I didn't say that Nate. Behave yourself.
And if you were to do some reading on the subject, you'd quickly find that both sides have been stubborn and stupid. Attempts to lay this all at the feet of Canada, is blatant denial and a gross lie. IMO...the natives are as much responsible for this "cultural genocide" they claim, as the rest of the nation. Perhaps more.
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:shock:

Hoo boy.

Happy Friday, bud, I'm leaving this one alone.
 
Gus Fring said:
Also immigration is. Yet this does not prevent you from complaining about it.
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I am a supporter of LEGAL IMMIGRATION! I sense you are an immigrant to our beautiful nation?

Gus Fring said:
It can be undone, actually.
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Undone? Is that your goal? To "undo Canada"?
Is that some sort of veiled threat? How...exactly...would you propose to "undo Canada"?

Gus Fring said:
You just said you are OK if I enter your house without your permission and I occupy it because otherwise you would "suffer loneliness".
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No I didn't. What the hell are you talking about? Is English your second language? Do we have a language barrier here?

BTW...the colonists came and had vastly superior arms. THAT'S how they managed what they did. Such things have been going on forever.
However...if you're suggesting that you should take over my home, with superior force...you should know before hand that I tend to have a bad temper, and that there is NOTHING I won't do to protect my family. So maybe you wanna think of wearing armour...because my reaction will necessitate that you kill me. :shock:
 
Buzz62 said:
I didn't say that Nate. Behave yourself.
And if you were to do some reading on the subject, you'd quickly find that both sides have been stubborn and stupid. Attempts to lay this all at the feet of Canada, is blatant denial and a gross lie. IMO...the natives are as much responsible for this "cultural genocide" they claim, as the rest of the nation. Perhaps more.
Click to expand...

No they aren't. Natives, I mean, responsible for the 'cultural genocide'. Listen- in 1746 my ancestors lost their last battle with the Brits on Culloden moor. Their language and music were outlawed and wearing their tartans too. The clan system was broken up and susequently the people driven off their lands to make room for sheep. To this day the Highlands are the emptiest place in the British Isles and none of that is on the Scots, unless you blame a people for defending themselves and resisting an overwhelmingly superior force.
Same with the Native Americans. We can quibble 'till the cows come home about the language used to describe history but there's nothing the natives could have done to change a thing. Where they resisted they lost, where they didn't resist they lost. They aren't even a little responsible for events they had no control over.
 
Grand Mal said:
No they aren't. Natives, I mean, responsible for the 'cultural genocide'. Listen- in 1746 my ancestors lost their last battle with the Brits on Culloden moor. Their language and music were outlawed and wearing their tartans too. The clan system was broken up and susequently the people driven off their lands to make room for sheep. To this day the Highlands are the emptiest place in the British Isles and none of that is on the Scots, unless you blame a people for defending themselves and resisting an overwhelmingly superior force.
Same with the Native Americans. We can quibble 'till the cows come home about the language used to describe history but there's nothing the natives could have done to change a thing. Where they resisted they lost, where they didn't resist they lost. They aren't even a little responsible for events they had no control over.
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So...you've never heard of The Melting Pot then?
 
Buzz62 said:
So...you've never heard of The Melting Pot then?
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Yeah, that's the American model of immigration. People come from all different cultures into the melting pot and all become Americans.
In Canada we prefer the mosaic model.
 
Buzz62 said:
I am a supporter of LEGAL IMMIGRATION!
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Indigenous people are too. That's why they oppose the Canadian illegal immigrant state.


Buzz62 said:
I sense you are an immigrant to our beautiful nation?
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No, I'm not.


Buzz62 said:
Undone? Is that your goal? To "undo Canada"?
Is that some sort of veiled threat? How...exactly...would you propose to "undo Canada"?
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Lol calm down, I didn't say I will "undo" it myself. History will undo it.


Buzz62 said:
No I didn't. What the hell are you talking about? Is English your second language? Do we have a language barrier here?

BTW...the colonists came and had vastly superior arms. THAT'S how they managed what they did. Such things have been going on forever.
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You justified colonialism on the ground that opposing it would mean "isolationism". You either don't know the meaning of colonialism or the meaning of isolationism.


Buzz62 said:
However...if you're suggesting that you should take over my home, with superior force...you should know before hand that I tend to have a bad temper, and that there is NOTHING I won't do to protect my family. So maybe you wanna think of wearing armour...because my reaction will necessitate that you kill me. :shock:
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I wasn't suggesting anything, it was just an example.

:doh
 
Grand Mal said:
Yeah, that's the American model of immigration. People come from all different cultures into the melting pot and all become Americans.
In Canada we prefer the mosaic model.
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I remember learning the difference in grade school. I was always proud of that difference, even if we didn't live the ideology perfectly as a nation throughout our entire history.
 
Gus Fring said:
Indigenous people are too. That's why they oppose the Canadian illegal immigrant state.
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What does that mean? Are you saying you oppose Canada?

Gus Fring said:
Lol calm down, I didn't say I will "undo" it myself. History will undo it.
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History eh?
OK just don't hold ur breath...

Gus Fring said:
You justified colonialism on the ground that opposing it would mean "isolationism". You either don't know the meaning of colonialism or the meaning of isolationism.
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Huh...I think you need to re-read my posts.

Gus Fring said:
I wasn't suggesting anything, it was just an example.

:doh
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Colonization of the Americas happened. It was a much more humane execution here in Canada, then anywhere else in the Americas. Not that its any huge consolation to the native people...but its a fact. Anyway...Canada today cannot be held accountable for things done before Canada even really existed. Just as the people who built this nation, cannot be held responsible for belief in things we today find objectionable. Societal norms change over time, as they should.

Now...if you really want to have a frank (and I mean "dry and fact-based"), discussion on the causes for the inequities and so forth that still exist, I'm down.
I've done this before when that silly fish juice lady was pretending to stave herself in a tipi on Capital Hill.
I learned allot about how native people feel and think about this whole colonial issue. And I learned allot about what happened back then, and the laws and racism (on both sides) that all helped bake this current situation. I do have my own opinion on how most can be solved...and we can discuss that too if you like.

But if we do this dance...remember...I will be very dry and what you might call...heartless. I will admit when you have a good point, but I will also not deal with silly notions like "cultural genocide". Genocide is genocide. It is NOT the alteration of a culture. That time does...naturally. Not that I would not want to protect and preserve my own culture. Just that the term is NOT accurate. It is a play on words to garner an emotional response and sympathy.
 
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OlNate said:
I remember learning the difference in grade school. I was always proud of that difference, even if we didn't live the ideology perfectly as a nation throughout our entire history.
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I heard the only teach you two things in Canadian grade school: how to draw sap from maple trees and bird calls... :mrgreen:
 
PoS said:
I heard the only teach you two things in Canadian grade school: how to draw sap from maple trees and bird calls... :mrgreen:
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I know how to do one of two of those things.

I wonder if you'll guess which one...flip a coin.
 
PoS said:
I heard the only teach you two things in Canadian grade school: how to draw sap from maple trees and bird calls... :mrgreen:
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I heard American grade schools only teach two things- how to check your blood sugar and yodelling.
 
Grand Mal said:
Yeah, that's the American model of immigration. People come from all different cultures into the melting pot and all become Americans.
In Canada we prefer the mosaic model.
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Actually, as a Canadian who's experienced our flavor of immigration and assimilation, I believe The Melting Pot to be much more effective.
 
Buzz62 said:
Actually, as a Canadian who's experienced our flavor of immigration and assimilation, I believe The Melting Pot to be much more effective.
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Really. Works just great in the US, huh? Better than here?
I don't know how the immigration system in Canada could be improved, tell the truth. Best in the world, looks like to me.

Assimilation being a negative, not a positive.
 
The G-word was dramatically used for missing or murdered Indigenous women in Canada. But the grand total is just over 300 since the 1960s, according to CBC News. I guess Indigenous Canadian women are more likely to go missing because of their lower socioeconomic status or the First Nations' rural settings. There are thousands of missing and murdered white Canadian women, too.



CBC News has looked into 34 cases across Canada which involve the death or disappearance of Indigenous women, but which authorities say were not due to foul play.

In every case, families of the women say they do not accept the findings of police. They suggest murder may be involved.

CBC News found evidence in many of the cases that points to suspicious circumstances, unexplained bruises and other factors that suggest further investigation is warranted.

Many advocates for missing and murdered Indigenous women say these are exactly the kinds of cases requiring further scrutiny in a national inquiry.

We have created a profile for each person. You can view each one by choosing the profile in the bar above.

This project is part of CBC's ongoing investigation into missing and murdered Indigenous women. We continue to expand our database of all unsolved cases. To search more than 250 of those cases, use the Case Explorer below.

Missing and Murdered Aboriginal Women
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Limiting First Nations people's to reservations where there is no economic opportunity, if they want to keep their legal Indian Status, forcibly removing First Nations children from their parents' control and sending them to far-flung residential schools to be culturally assimilated (and too often abused), forced sterilisation of First Nations people by the Canadian and Provincial governments until the later half of the 20th Century and forcing First Nations people to be unwilling tenants in their own homes and on their reserves all created this disaster.

The first step to fixing this mess is to acknowledge and take responsibility for the actions of our European forefathers and mothers for what we as colonies, a dominion and finally a fully sovereign state did to the First Nations, the Inuit and the Metis. The second step is to consult and draft new First Nations friendly, Inuit-friendly and Metis-friendly legislation so that we can repeal the Indian Act and begin redressing the multigenerational harms we have done to Indigenous peoples here.

Then comes the tricky business of establishing sovereign autonomous areas within the State of Canada where indigenous peoples numbers warrant so that they can live and prosper with opportunity, mobility, ownership, limited sovereignty and with dignity to build a future of hope in a shared Canada. Canada is not a melting pot nor a cultural food-processor. Canada is a community building machine and we need to help indigenous peoples build thriving, sustainable and vibrant communities according to their own designs for the future.

House of Commons seats and Senate seats should be created for indigenous peoples and should be filled by election or appointment by them without any paternalistic control from non-indigenous powers. Or a House of First Nations should be created for the purpose of national self-government which should control progressively more and more decision making powers in indigenous hands.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Grand Mal said:
I heard American grade schools only teach two things- how to check your blood sugar and yodelling.
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Yodeling? that's in Switzerland. In America, they teach world rulership. ;)
 
Grand Mal said:
Really. Works just great in the US, huh? Better than here?
I don't know how the immigration system in Canada could be improved, tell the truth. Best in the world, looks like to me.

Assimilation being a negative, not a positive.
Click to expand...

Well we have to agree to disagree then.
I see The Melting Pot as one of the chief reasons the US has been so successful.
Our Multiculturalism may sound more...humane...but its not really.
 
Evilroddy said:
Limiting First Nations people's to reservations where there is no economic opportunity, if they want to keep their legal Indian Status, forcibly removing First Nations children from their parents' control and sending them to far-flung residential schools to be culturally assimilated (and too often abused), forced sterilisation of First Nations people by the Canadian and Provincial governments until the later half of the 20th Century and forcing First Nations people to be unwilling tenants in their own homes and on their reserves all created this disaster.

The first step to fixing this mess is to acknowledge and take responsibility for the actions of our European forefathers and mothers for what we as colonies, a dominion and finally a fully sovereign state did to the First Nations, the Inuit and the Metis. The second step is to consult and draft new First Nations friendly, Inuit-friendly and Metis-friendly legislation so that we can repeal the Indian Act and begin redressing the multigenerational harms we have done to Indigenous peoples here.

Then comes the tricky business of establishing sovereign autonomous areas within the State of Canada where indigenous peoples numbers warrant so that they can live and prosper with opportunity, mobility, ownership, limited sovereignty and with dignity to build a future of hope in a shared Canada. Canada is not a melting pot nor a cultural food-processor. Canada is a community building machine and we need to help indigenous peoples build thriving, sustainable and vibrant communities according to their own designs for the future.

House of Commons seats and Senate seats should be created for indigenous peoples and should be filled by election or appointment by them without any paternalistic control from non-indigenous powers. Or a House of First Nations should be created for the purpose of national self-government which should control progressively more and more decision making powers in indigenous hands.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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I agree with creating a new framework for relations with First nations however having autonomous areas and having opportunity and mobility are pretty much mutually exclusive bar a few exceptions. Just like the rest of the Canadian population if you want those things you have to go to the cities. You cannot just create economically self-sustaining communities with a variety of services, no matter how much you try it will fail. No matter what the federal government will have to maintain oversight, these governing organizations would have to submit to audits and comply with all federal laws, they should not get exceptions from federal governance. I also don't believe they should get specific seats in the House, they are already represented by their ridings, in the Senate they should have one or two representatives according to their population. Any new framework for First nations governance must be better integrated into Canadian society to actually solve problems, otherwise the root problems will persist.
 
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Buzz62 said:
Well we have to agree to disagree then.
I see The Melting Pot as one of the chief reasons the US has been so successful.
Our Multiculturalism may sound more...humane...but its not really.
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I don't see any success in the American model at all. It hasn't even been successful 'assimilating' black people who were brought there hundreds of years ago, never mind recent refugees from the Middle East. Tens of thousands of Syrian refugees have been accepted into Canada seamlessly, with no expectation of 'assimilation'. 20%, one fifth, of Canadians were born elsewhere and we don't have a fraction of the issues around immigration that the US has. Looks like, to me, that we have the most successful process in the world, far better than the American model.
So yeah, I agree- we disagree.
 
Grand Mal said:
I don't see any success in the American model at all. It hasn't even been successful 'assimilating' black people who were brought there hundreds of years ago, never mind recent refugees from the Middle East. Tens of thousands of Syrian refugees have been accepted into Canada seamlessly, with no expectation of 'assimilation'. 20%, one fifth, of Canadians were born elsewhere and we don't have a fraction of the issues around immigration that the US has. Looks like, to me, that we have the most successful process in the world, far better than the American model.
So yeah, I agree- we disagree.
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Yes well...nobody barrel-assed planed into our business towers, nor are there thousands of people trying to flood our border. As for it all being seamless. Perhaps you'd like to explain this to the family of little 10 yr old Julianna Kozis? She was one of the victims of that mass shooting on Danforth, here in Toronto. I'm quite sure they just love to hear what you think about these lovely people who cause only "a fraction of the issues around immigration that the US has".
 
Buzz62 said:
Actually, as a Canadian who's experienced our flavor of immigration and assimilation, I believe The Melting Pot to be much more effective.
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And as a Canadian who's also experienced our flavor of immigration, I (as well as Grand I'm sure, and he's Canadian too) would aggressively disagree. Every attempt to create a melting pot scenario has ended in human tragedy, extended conflict, and ultimately costly reparation efforts that get handed to the tax payer. Our aboriginal relations is the poster child for that assertion.

Plus, sometimes folks get "melting pot" wrong...it's not code for "everyone who is different from me will become like me". You lose individuality in a melting pot too.
 
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