Albertexit

Buzz62 said:

Generations?

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Yeah?

Grand Mal said:

Yeah?

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lol...I don't think so man.

stevecanuck said:

I was just too damned mad to bother with a reasoned response such as this. Well done and thanks for taking the time (even though you're never going to get through to him).

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When Alberta antagonizes British Colombians and Quebeckers, insulting them and refusing to consult with them, why do you think they would want to support Alberta's pipelines? What do they gain from the agreement? Alberta is the one who benefits, BC and Quebec get next to nothing, they get some port jobs, that is about it. I would like to see Alberta prosper too but over reliance on oil and making enemies of the other provinces is not how you do that.

Buzz62 said:

OOPS...

Allow me to introduce you to a real asshole then.

Quebec SHOULD be one of the jewels of Canada. Instead its a net cost. And why? Tell me...which city in Canada was the big financial center in the 50's and 60's? Even the 70's still? Ya...that would be Montreal. What happened? Rene Levesque. The Quebec Separatists...and their language laws.

Ya got what y'all paid for.

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It is the off-island suburbs of Montreal and Quebec City that are the problem, not Montreal. They are the ones who oppose every measure to try and increase economic productivity in Quebec and they are the ones who brought the CAQ to power and the CAQ are trying their hardest to make sure Quebec never becomes more economically productive.

The Liberals were trying to change things but the traditional Quebecois wanted nothing to do with it.

Buzz62 said:

lol...I don't think so man.

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What? You don't think Alberta was a 'have-not province' for generations? When did the big oil boom-times start, late 70's? 80's?

Grand Mal said:

What? You don't think Alberta was a 'have-not province' for generations? When did the big oil boom-times start, late 70's? 80's?

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1970s

Carjosse said:

And this is why I think you along with stevecanuck are among the worst Canadians I have had the displeasure of interacting with. You both do nothing but espouse lies and vitrol towards other Canadians.

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Nonsense - but then you're in Montreal so I expect nothing better. You love to spout environmentalism on the rest of Canada while your Mayor approves dumping billions of liters of raw sewage into the St. Lawrence River, just as one example of your Province and its citizens not giving a rat's ass about anyone other then your own self interest. You take $billions from other provinces, use it to prop up unreasonably cheap daycare, and then lecture other provinces for not having cheap daycare. You pass laws that make it illegal to use English, one of Canada's two official languages, in the business environment, and then bitch and moan when other provinces don't go out of their way to waste $millions propping up the use of French. I could go on, but the record of Quebec in the Canadian federation just makes me want to vomit.

Carjosse said:

It is the off-island suburbs of Montreal and Quebec City that are the problem, not Montreal. They are the ones who oppose every measure to try and increase economic productivity in Quebec and they are the ones who brought the CAQ to power and the CAQ are trying their hardest to make sure Quebec never becomes more economically productive.

The Liberals were trying to change things but the traditional Quebecois wanted nothing to do with it.

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Oh its the "others" is it? :roll:

Look...a little tough love if I may.
IMO...
Canadians everywhere like the idea of the French enclave in the nation called Quebec. Its part of what makes Canada...Canada. Its part of our shared history, heritage and culture. I would be surprised if any Canadians ever really "wanted" Quebec to separate. But just like a spouse who nags constantly about dumb crap, many Canadians have gotten tired of this perpetual battle and given up.

I was with an embassy in Europe as the IT dude, when the last referendum happened. It almost tore the embassy apart. It was confrontational and unpleasant. It turned friends into enemies, and the rift in the staff never mended until the next rotation. During this time, External Affairs was installing a new global network and had penned a deal with Digital to produce and provide all the hardware in Quebec. The manufacturing facilities were complete and the machines were all being rolled out, when the Language Police showed up and demanded that production be halted until all documentation and systems can be duplicated in French. Digital decided to pull up stakes, and move out of Quebec. The deal was over.

Nobody wants to lose the unique culture of Quebec. But Les Quebecois have let their hearts dictate their actions, and have choked off business within their own province. They've been lead down a path to ruin, over the asinine idea that they can manage as a strictly French land mass in the middle of a continent that is primarily English speaking. Hell not even France is that stupid. Y'all let Levesque rest power by appealing to the abundant emotions of French culture, and the lingering disappointment of having been over-run by the English, way back when none of us were even alive.

Les Quebecois need to drop this self-destructive path and be proud members of a unique nation. Canada. We're all sitting on a bloody fortune in minerals and resources. Its way past time Canada take its place as a leader globally and a merchant of this "gold mine" we're all living on.

Grand Mal said:

What? You don't think Alberta was a 'have-not province' for generations? When did the big oil boom-times start, late 70's? 80's?

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Equalization didn't start until '72.

Buzz62 said:

Equalization didn't start until '72.

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You're right, my bad. I was a child in the late 60s when I first heard the term 'have-not province' and I assumed it refered then to equalization payments. Must have been the lead-up to the program being implemented.

Grand Mal said:

You're right, my bad. I was a child in the late 60s when I first heard the term 'have-not province' and I assumed it refered then to equalization payments. Must have been the lead-up to the program being implemented.

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The point being, BC, Alberta, Quebec and all the provinces are privileged to be part of Canada.
We, as a nation, need to not only honour those who created it, but recognize the sheer wealth we all have built our homes on...and take advantage of that gift.

CanadaJohn said:

Nonsense - but then you're in Montreal so I expect nothing better. You love to spout environmentalism on the rest of Canada while your Mayor approves dumping billions of liters of raw sewage into the St. Lawrence River, just as one example of your Province and its citizens not giving a rat's ass about anyone other then your own self interest. You take $billions from other provinces, use it to prop up unreasonably cheap daycare, and then lecture other provinces for not having cheap daycare. You pass laws that make it illegal to use English, one of Canada's two official languages, in the business environment, and then bitch and moan when other provinces don't go out of their way to waste $millions propping up the use of French. I could go on, but the record of Quebec in the Canadian federation just makes me want to vomit.

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Subsidized daycare has been a massive success, it provides far more economic benefit than it costs, it gets people who otherwise would not be able to to get into the workforce and start paying taxes, it allows working families to keep more of their income. Why are you so opposed to a measure that actually helps Quebec be more economically productive? It is one of the few things that does increase economic productivity, and other provinces would do well to adopt it. Do you think paying $50/day for childcare in Toronto has no negative effects on the economy?

Raw sewage does not create the same damage dumping oil all over Quebec would. It is also the fact that they thought they can do it with no consultation of BC or Quebec, or the citizens of those provinces, they thought they could just build it and no one would ever ask questions about it.

English is still widely used even in large companies, I can guarantee you that. I worked in a company of several thousand and spoke nothing but English, other departments spoke French. There are French speakers outside of Quebec believe it or not and they deserve services as well, there is clearly a demand for it. Try saying that French is a waste to the MPPs who represents ridings with significant French-speaking populations, one of them even left the PCs over it.

You hold nothing but contempt for Quebec and Francophones.

Carjosse said:

Subsidized daycare has been a massive success, it provides far more economic benefit than it costs, it gets people who otherwise would not be able to to get into the workforce and start paying taxes, it allows working families to keep more of their income. Why are you so opposed to a measure that actually helps Quebec be more economically productive? It is one of the few things that does increase economic productivity, and other provinces would do well to adopt it. Do you think paying $50/day for childcare in Toronto has no negative effects on the economy?

Raw sewage does not create the same damage dumping oil all over Quebec would. It is also the fact that they thought they can do it with no consultation of BC or Quebec, or the citizens of those provinces, they thought they could just build it and no one would ever ask questions about it.

English is still widely used even in large companies, I can guarantee you that. I worked in a company of several thousand and spoke nothing but English, other departments spoke French. There are French speakers outside of Quebec believe it or not and they deserve services as well, there is clearly a demand for it. Try saying that French is a waste to the MPPs who represents ridings with significant French-speaking populations, one of them even left the PCs over it.

You hold nothing but contempt for Quebec and Francophones.

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I do hold contempt for many in Quebec and many Francophones because they hold contempt for the rest of Canada and what it represents not only internally in Canada but in the world at large.

Of course your province's childcare plan provides more economic benefit that it costs, because it costs Quebec nothing - the rest of Canada pays for it - Quebec citizens paying $7 a day. If the rest of Canada kept the money they pour into transfer payments, they'd also be able to afford such a generous program.

You ignore the fact that the oil that Alberta produces provides much of the transfer payments that your province enjoys.

Tell me, how many oil spills have you had from the existing pipeline that sends refined oil to and through Quebec currently? The Energy East pipeline was designed to provide oil transfers in both directions, sending Alberta crude to the refineries in New Brunswick while continuing to send refined oil back to central Canada. You, on the other hand, would prefer that oil continue to be transported by rail. I supposed you'd enjoy a few more Lac Magnetic disasters in your province rather than send oil by the safest means, pipelines. And I suppose you'd also prefer to get your oil from Saudi Arabia, as you do now, rather than from Canada if Alberta could get it to the eastern refineries. Self-centered people like you in Quebec and BC should give up your gas powered cars and home heating if you don't want to be involved in the production of oil. You should also refuse to have gasoline powered trucks from entering your borders, carrying the products that stock your store shelves.

It's easy for you to sit back and be arrogant and smug. But your hypocrisy doesn't go unnoticed in the rest of the country.

[h=2]Kenney wins landslide in Alberta against carbon tax: vows War Room against energy activists[/h]
[h=3]Yet another big win against carbon taxes: Abbott, Trump, Fordand now Kenney[/h]

Provinces of Canada.
​

The first pledge was to get rid of the carbon tax. The victory was a scorching 63 to 24 seats, or 55% to 32%.
Alberta is a conservative province of Canada with 4 million people. It’s wealthy from oil, gas and agriculture. (It’s not that different to Queensland and WA.). Jason Kenney is on a mission to get the province back from environmental zealots: fergoodnesssake, he even vowed to set up a ‘War Room’ against energy activists.
The greens were the main target and the people said “Yes”.
Conservatives win big victory in Alberta, Canada
The right-leaning United Conservative Party (UCP) has taken power in the oil-rich Canadian province of Alberta, routing the left-leaning NDP.
[h=4]It was a landslide victory:[/h]

…Kenney defeated center-left incumbent Rachel Notley, 55, whose New Democratic Party snapped four decades of conservative rule in 2015. His UCP won 63 seats in the provincial legislature, against 24 for Notley’s NDP,
He’s vowed to get stalled pipelines built, scrap the province’s carbon tax, and create a “war room” to hit back at anti-oil-sands campaigners. He also pledged to cut corporate taxes and balance the province’s books in his first term.

– Kevin Orland, Bloomberg​

The Rachel Notley New Democratic government was a one term wonder in Alberta:
The United Conservative Party’s win will mark a sharp turn in the province’s environmental policy. The NDP introduced a number of stringent climate measures in 2015 that included the province’s first ever economy-wide carbon tax. Kenney has promised to repeal that tax as one of his first policy moves after taking power.

[h=3]First order of business to get rid of the carbon tax[/h]After it’s gone, Trudeau will force a federal one on Alberta, and Kenney will oppose that in court:
Keep reading →

Jack Hays said:

[h=2]Kenney wins landslide in Alberta against carbon tax: vows War Room against energy activists[/h]
[h=3]Yet another big win against carbon taxes: Abbott, Trump, Fordand now Kenney[/h]

Provinces of Canada.
​

The first pledge was to get rid of the carbon tax. The victory was a scorching 63 to 24 seats, or 55% to 32%.
Alberta is a conservative province of Canada with 4 million people. It’s wealthy from oil, gas and agriculture. (It’s not that different to Queensland and WA.). Jason Kenney is on a mission to get the province back from environmental zealots: fergoodnesssake, he even vowed to set up a ‘War Room’ against energy activists.
The greens were the main target and the people said “Yes”.
Conservatives win big victory in Alberta, Canada
The right-leaning United Conservative Party (UCP) has taken power in the oil-rich Canadian province of Alberta, routing the left-leaning NDP.
[h=4]It was a landslide victory:[/h]

…Kenney defeated center-left incumbent Rachel Notley, 55, whose New Democratic Party snapped four decades of conservative rule in 2015. His UCP won 63 seats in the provincial legislature, against 24 for Notley’s NDP,
He’s vowed to get stalled pipelines built, scrap the province’s carbon tax, and create a “war room” to hit back at anti-oil-sands campaigners. He also pledged to cut corporate taxes and balance the province’s books in his first term.

– Kevin Orland, Bloomberg​

The Rachel Notley New Democratic government was a one term wonder in Alberta:
The United Conservative Party’s win will mark a sharp turn in the province’s environmental policy. The NDP introduced a number of stringent climate measures in 2015 that included the province’s first ever economy-wide carbon tax. Kenney has promised to repeal that tax as one of his first policy moves after taking power.

[h=3]First order of business to get rid of the carbon tax[/h]After it’s gone, Trudeau will force a federal one on Alberta, and Kenney will oppose that in court:
Keep reading →

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The two biggest promises he made are out of his control

Scrap the carbon tax and a federal one would be imposed. The spending commitments (which includes LRT in Calgary) that are backed by the provincial carbon tax would need new sources of revenue, the federal tax would be rebated to lower income Albertans, and not available to the provincial government.

The pipelines are stalled because of courts in other provinces, and Keystone in the US by US courts. Kenny will have zero control over those things.

Cutting taxes is likely impossible given the deficit in Alberta is huge $10 billion a year. Cutting taxes in any meaningful way would see that go even higher. Cutting health care, or education will see the UCP lose the next election (he could freeze spending levels). So the deficit without a massive spike in the price of oil the deficit is not going away in less than 4 years


So three of his top four promises will be broken and the strains between rural and urban center right UCP members will spike. Which was the reason for the split in Alberta conservatives in the first place

Lord Tammerlain said:

The two biggest promises he made are out of his control

Scrap the carbon tax and a federal one would be imposed. The spending commitments (which includes LRT in Calgary) that are backed by the provincial carbon tax would need new sources of revenue, the federal tax would be rebated to lower income Albertans, and not available to the provincial government.

The pipelines are stalled because of courts in other provinces, and Keystone in the US by US courts. Kenny will have zero control over those things.

Cutting taxes is likely impossible given the deficit in Alberta is huge $10 billion a year. Cutting taxes in any meaningful way would see that go even higher. Cutting health care, or education will see the UCP lose the next election (he could freeze spending levels). So the deficit without a massive spike in the price of oil the deficit is not going away in less than 4 years


So three of his top four promises will be broken and the strains between rural and urban center right UCP members will spike. Which was the reason for the split in Alberta conservatives in the first place

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I suspect that he would prefer the issues rather than solutions at first, but Canadian politics is not my strong suit.

Jack Hays said:

I suspect that he would prefer the issues rather than solutions at first, but Canadian politics is not my strong suit.

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The issues are in large part the promises he made

Unemployment is high due to lack of pipelines causing low prices for Alberta oil. That is reducing Alberta government revenues, causing the high deficit (both through taxes and royalty payments.

I doubt the population will be very patient in Alberta, nor will they be forgiving. They want health care and education and low taxes. Without high oil prices they can not get it

Grand Mal said:

First time I heard the phrase 'have-not province' it was Albertans making their case for equalization payments. When they started to rake in the revenues of the oil boom-times and Trudeau 1.0 said Canada needs a National Energy Policy so maritimers who heat with oil didn't have to pay world-market prices half the bumpers in Alberta had stickers that said, "Let them freeze in the dark!"
But any talk of separatism in Alberta is beyond ridiculous and Albertans know it.

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When Sneaky Pete was in power, there was a movement for "The Republic of Western Canada" where BC, AB, SK and MB wanted to separate and form their own country.
I remember people talking about it the first time I visited Canada in 1981.

SDET said:

When Sneaky Pete was in power, there was a movement for "The Republic of Western Canada" where BC, AB, SK and MB wanted to separate and form their own country.
I remember people talking about it the first time I visited Canada in 1981.

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I remember those lunatics. The only thing they actually accomplished was to announce that they existed. Maybe they printed T-shirts. Nothing beyond that. Movement? Well, I'll resist that temptation.
There's another lunatic group talking about 'Cascadia', B.C. and Washington state and Oregon and northern California forming a nation. Hell, Sarah Palin and her husband supported an Alaska separation 'movement'. There's no shortage of those nutbars.

AtlantaAdonis said:

Record-breaking number of votes cast at Alberta election advance polls | Globalnews.ca

Looks like all the Bubbas and Jim Bobs in Alberta are butthurt that they're not allowed to destroy the environment with their pipelines, so they're going to try and leave Canada. I expect Trump to make them the 51st state to add another red state for his reelection.

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Don't like selling resources? Okay, tell us how we can get by on a 30-cent US dollar. You like Greens? Please take Andrew Weaver off our hands out here in BC.


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Carjosse said:

Why would we ever do that? All you do is antagonize and insult the rest of Canada with the exception of your buddy Saskatchewan. You want to force the pipeline on other provinces without consulting them or their people in any way. Maybe try raising taxes and investing in alternative industries to oil, be less reliant on oil or actually cooperate with the other provinces.

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Why are Quebecers being a-holes about a pipeline? Do you think you're saving the planet? There is so much oil and natural gas in the world that we'll never burn more than a fraction of it before we have to get energy from other sources. Alberta may as well get something out of the end of the oil age.


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Grand Mal said:

Get what right? After generations of drawing equalization payments like welfare bums Alberta suddenly realizes they had the intelligence and foresight to hide oil under those dirt-poor farms and tar-paper shacks and now resents having to contribute to the rest of the country?

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Are you even a Canadian? Alberta has been contributing equilization payments for decades, not taking yhem.



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[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[h=1]Alberta Introduces Carbon Tax Repeal Bill[/h][FONT=&quot]From OILPRICE By Irina Slav – May 23, 2019, 9:30 AM CDT Staying true to their promise from the campaign trail, Alberta’s Conservatives have introduced a bill to repeal a carbon tax introduced by their predecessors at the helm of the province, the New Democratic Party. Reuters reports that the repealment of the carbon tax…
Continue reading →
[/FONT]

Jack Hays said:

[FONT="][URL="https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/05/24/alberta-introduces-carbon-tax-repeal-bill/"]

[/URL][/FONT]
[h=1]Alberta Introduces Carbon Tax Repeal Bill[/h][FONT="][FONT=inherit]From OILPRICE By Irina Slav – May 23, 2019, 9:30 AM CDT Staying true to their promise from the campaign trail, Alberta’s Conservatives have introduced a bill to repeal a carbon tax introduced by their predecessors at the helm of the province, the New Democratic Party. Reuters reports that the repealment of the carbon tax…[/FONT]
[FONT=inherit][URL="https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/05/24/alberta-introduces-carbon-tax-repeal-bill/"]Continue reading →[/URL][/FONT]
[/FONT]

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Idiotic move from an Alberta standpoint

The minute Alberta drops its Carbon tax, the federal one kicks in. The revenue from the provincial carbon tax went to the Alberta government for spending as it saw fit. Now it will be spent as the federal government desires, with most coming back to Alberta as a rebate to lower income families. A smarter move would have been to lower the Alberta one to the same level as the feds, and then try to challenge the carbon tax.

Now the federal carbon tax has been ruled as valid in Sask, by its top court, and the Alberta challenge will fail as well. But now the Alberta government will not have as much revenue as before, leading to higher deficits.

Ideology before intelligent policy

Lord Tammerlain said:

Idiotic move from an Alberta standpoint

The minute Alberta drops its Carbon tax, the federal one kicks in. The revenue from the provincial carbon tax went to the Alberta government for spending as it saw fit. Now it will be spent as the federal government desires, with most coming back to Alberta as a rebate to lower income families. A smarter move would have been to lower the Alberta one to the same level as the feds, and then try to challenge the carbon tax.

Now the federal carbon tax has been ruled as valid in Sask, by its top court, and the Alberta challenge will fail as well. But now the Alberta government will not have as much revenue as before, leading to higher deficits.

Ideology before intelligent policy

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Perhaps they would rather have the issue than the revenue?