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Canadian Election 2019

Surrealistik:

Surrealistik said:
Certainly, there are many ways to improve things without causing significant economic fallout/consequences. However, unintended consequences are abound, and picking them out is not always (and often isn't) easy.
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Agreed on both points.

Legacy or not, the party of Bob Rae simply isn't the party of the NDP of today.
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It should remain a cautionary lesson for all parties no matter where on the political spectrum they sit. Agreed that the NDP has changed but sometimes in disturbing ways from my perspective given my experience with the NDP in Quebec. But I should clarify that I have no real beefs with the Federal NDP at this point. I do pine for Ed Broadbent at times however.

Further, I would object to your association of austerity with 'pragmatism' (though its proponents often love to style themselves as pragmatists) when austerity often isn't about honouring pragmatism so much as it is typically about reducing the role of govt on either a raw ideological basis, or attempting to tackle debt in a myopic way that ultimately proves counterproductive (see Greece's economy shrinking faster than its debt).
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Good point. My use of pragmatist was not intended to be a universal term. That's why I qualified it as heartless austerity pragmatists.

I think that depends entirely on the people involved.
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I agree. So who in the Federal NDP do you see as being able to successfully execute substantial economic and social change in opposition to powerful domestic and foreign blocs of power, capital, intelligence and military might which are intent on maintaining and expanding the preferential status quo which serves those powerful interests? I don't think anyone in the NDP or in fact in any federal party in Canada has that kind of wisdom, will, vision, political dexterity and charisma to get that done right now. Am I wrong? (Not a rhetorical question but an honest one due to my limited perspective here in Central Canada.)

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
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OlNate said:
Popped this open for anyone interested in discussing the Canadian Election this year.

Who would you like to see win, how, and why? Who do you think WILL win, regardless of whether you like them or not?

What are the important issues? What policy initiatives do you see being most needed? Most popular?

Something tells me it's going to be a long year. :) Might as well have fun with it.
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I sort of wish the Conservatives had elected a leader with a personality.
But hey...at least he's not Pixy-Dust.
 
Northern Light said:
I'll be voting Liberal. The NDP stand no choice of gaining power and I don't want another 4+ years of the Conservatives. Scheer is nutso.

I'm not happy with Canadian politics at all right now. My voting is strategic and I am voting for the lesser of two evils. I don't feel that abstaining is the solution. Usually it is liberals who abstain and it's how we ended up with a Harper majority. Canada still has not recovered from Harper and it probably never will.
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Could you please enlighten me on what Harper did that was so bad?
 
When the stark reality of carbon tax kicks in - with all the soaring food prices, and everything else - I see a Conservative majority!


Remember the yellow vest riots in France? That was started by their carbon tax!

Political disconnect: Paris riots reveal public's unwillingness to accept a carbon tax

The climb down by Mr. Macron’s government — delaying for at least six months planned gas tax hikes in the face of the worst Paris street riots in 50 years — is just the latest retreat for green-oriented governments in North America, Asia and Europe. The long-term benefits of lower carbon emissions tend to get swamped in the polls by the immediate pain of higher costs at the gas station and on the home heating bills.
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Paris riots show failure of Emmanuel Macron carbon tax with public - Washington Times


Lol. We think only heating and gas bills will go up?
Any commodity that uses energy to be made, and transportation for delivery, will soar up!
Maybe, by June or July - that reality will start to sink in. Wait, and see.


The same angry reaction we saw from Albertans who brought in a Conservative majority, will be the same in
this federal election. STRONG MAJORITY!

Anger, will be the motivating factor to get out and vote! Make changes!
Except for Conservative Party, all three (Liberal, NDP, Green), are just mirror-image of each other.
 
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Just a sobering perspective, after all we're all facing the same thing:



Memo To Congress: French Riots Show Why U.S. Carbon Tax Should Be A Non-Starter

Nor is it just a "French thing." Macron is among a growing number of European leftist leaders who want to foist the anti-climate change agenda on their citizens as part of this new globalism. But this isn't kumbaya, feel-good globalism; it's one that will feature few if any individual rights, lots of taxes, shrinking standards of living, no real freedom, and little joy.

EU Über Alles

Across the border in Germany, soon-to-be-former German Chancellor Angela Merkel recently said that, on behalf of climate change and migration, "Countries must give up their sovereignty ... in an orderly fashion of course."

"Orderly," by the way, is a German euphemism for "by force, if needed."

For those who don't know, Macron and Merkel are the two strongest leaders in the EU. Their goal, stated outright, is to use the threat of global warming and unbridled migration to wrest control of their nations from their own people — whom they demonize as "populists" — and give it instead to the European Union.


Carbon Tax, Coming Our Way

Should we care?

Yes, because leftists here have the same things in mind for all of us. The scientific holes in the climate change religion are enormous. Literally thousands of engineers, scientists, academics and Nobel Prize winners have criticized the flawed science behind the theory that we inevitably face disastrous over-heating of the planet.

And the idea of "rebates" is absurd. The U.S. would always be one election away from "rebates" turning into just another tax-grab by Congress for badly needed "climate remediation" or some other hokey purpose. Meanwhile, businesses affected by carbon taxes would hire fewer workers and invest less. It's a recipe for French-style stagnation.

Yet, some in Congress — including some Republicans — are eager to saddle Americans with a massive new "carbon tax." It's the modern equivalent of the medieval church granting indulgences for sins. For a fee, of course. Pay us, and your sins will be remitted.
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Memo To Congress: French Riots Show Why U.S. Carbon Tax Should Be A Non-Starter | Investor's Business Daily


Rebates. :roll: Isn't that what the Liberals are dangling as the carrot?
 
Btw.....

........Calling conservatives "white supremacists," is beginning to sound like Hillary's, "basket of deplorables."


Canadians are not stupid, Justin.
 
tosca1 said:
When the stark reality of carbon tax kicks in - with all the soaring food prices, and everything else - I see a Conservative majority!


Remember the yellow vest riots in France? That was started by their carbon tax!


Paris riots show failure of Emmanuel Macron carbon tax with public - Washington Times


Lol. We think only heating and gas bills will go up?
Any commodity that uses energy to be made, and transportation for delivery, will soar up!
Maybe, by June or July - that reality will start to sink in. Wait, and see.


The same angry reaction we saw from Albertans who brought in a Conservative majority, will be the same in
this federal election. STRONG MAJORITY!

Anger, will be the motivating factor to get out and vote! Make changes!
Except for Conservative Party, all three (Liberal, NDP, Green), are just mirror-image of each other.
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Just a reminder that the real issue at the heart of this was economic injustice; Macron's fabulous tax giveaway to the rich followed by a major regressive tax on the poor to offset it in the form of the gas tax.

The riots are still going because though he repealed the latter, he did not repeal the former, despite the explicit demands of the yellow vest movement, and held fast to other policies that favour the wealthy.
 
Surrealistik said:
Just a reminder that the real issue at the heart of this was economic injustice; Macron's fabulous tax giveaway to the rich followed by a major regressive tax on the poor to offset it in the form of the gas tax.

The riots are still going because though he repealed the latter, he did not repeal the former, despite the explicit demands of the yellow vest movement, and held fast to other policies that favour the wealthy.
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If he never passed the carbon tax the yellow vest protests would not have started. In any event Macron repealing taxes on the wealthy was a necessary policy for France’s economy. Canada already has far lower taxes then France did so there is no pent up political anger to be triggered by low taxes
 
Carjosse said:
Not if the Conservatives ever want to win.
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Why, what's up with Kenney? He made it as Premier of Alberta! Not only that, he united the conservatives!

As far as I remember too, he did well in Harper's cabinet (immigration). If I'm not mistaken, I think he spent a lot of time doing outreach to ethnic communities.
 
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tosca1 said:
Why, what's up with Kenney? He made it as Premier of Alberta! Not only that, he united the conservatives!

As far as I remember too, he did well in Harper's cabinet (immigration).
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He is a Conservative in Alberta, that is playing on easy mode, the UCP could have run an empty bucket as leader and they would have won and that is not an exaggeration. He would not do well in Eastern Canada or BC, he is as hardcore Western Conservative as you can get. Eastern Conservatives do not like him let alone Quebec or the GTA. Also he has made enemies of BC and Quebec, that is not good for a party that wants to win.
 
Carjosse said:
He is a Conservative in Alberta, that is playing on easy mode, the UCP could have run an empty bucket as leader and they would have won and that is not an exaggeration. He would not do well in Eastern Canada or BC, he is as hardcore Western Conservative as you can get. Eastern Conservatives do not like him let alone Quebec or the GTA. Also he has made enemies of BC and Quebec, that is not good for a party that wants to win.
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Can you a cite your source, or is that just your personal opinion?

What I saw from him the day after the election, he toned down and was quite diplomatic about Trudeau, Legault, etc..,
 
EMNofSeattle said:
If he never passed the carbon tax the yellow vest protests would not have started. In any event Macron repealing taxes on the wealthy was a necessary policy for France’s economy. Canada already has far lower taxes then France did so there is no pent up political anger to be triggered by low taxes
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It was not 'necessary' whatsoever (labour reforms? Arguably. Slashing taxes for the wealthy? Not at all.), and it's impossible to say whether the protests would have ultimately emerged or not in the absence of the tax increases, but tax cuts for the rich were definitely indispensable to the emergence of the protests and it's certainly a major, core component in keeping this outrage going.

As to Canada, if we cut taxes for the rich, while simultaneously increasing them from the poor, I have no doubt that there would be indeed a great deal of outrage, even if the country didn't erupt into mass riots.
 
tosca1 said:
Can you a cite your source, or is that just your personal opinion?

What I saw from him the day after the election, he toned down and was quite diplomatic about Trudeau, Legault, etc..,
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In Alberta Kenny was quite unpopular. Notley had higher opinion ratings than he did. The UCP won in spite of Kenny not because of him. It is Alberta, a dead fish as leader of the UCP would have won this election
 
tosca1 said:
Can you a cite your source, or is that just your personal opinion?

What I saw from him the day after the election, he toned down and was quite diplomatic about Trudeau, Legault, etc..,
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He is still threatening to cut off BC and changing his tone after the election towards Quebec now does not reverse everything he has said for the past few years. That makes it incredibly difficult for this province and Conservatives from Quebec or BC to support him. Why would Eastern Conservatives support a hardline social conservative who antagonizes the East at any chance he gets? Kenney's hard social conservatism will not fly with the Conservatives nor Eastern voters.
 
Carjosse said:
He is still threatening to cut off BC and changing his tone after the election towards Quebec now does not reverse everything he has said for the past few years. That makes it incredibly difficult for this province and Conservatives from Quebec or BC to support him. Why would Eastern Conservatives support a hardline social conservative who antagonizes the East at any chance he gets? Kenney's hard social conservatism will not fly with the Conservatives nor Eastern voters.
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I'll agree with you on that. With our current climate, it'll be hard for someone like him....... but, not impossible.
Look at Harper.

Kenny or not, I see little to no hope for Conservatives in Quebec. But the rest of Canada? That depends.
Social conservatism took a backseat during the Alberta election.
Not even the gender of Notley (the last woman standing), mattered a whit.
Come to think of it - what happened to all the female premiers?

The issue foremost in everyone's mind is the pipeline and the economy. That same issue resonates among majority of Canadians.



Majority of Canadians in all regions but Quebec believe lack of oil pipelines is a crisis: poll

There's little doubt that, whether pipeline capacity constitutes an objective crisis or not, it's top of mind for voters in many parts of the country
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Majority of Canadians in all regions but Quebec believe lack of oil pipelines is a crisis: poll | National Post

I'm angry for Albertans. I see the terrible unfairness from the Trudeau adminstration (more so made glaring by his meddling with SNC-Lavalin).
I see the federal government playing politics with our economy, with people's lives.
I see a federal government that puts partisanship (the Liberal Party), above everything else.
 
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Lord Tammerlain said:
In Alberta Kenny was quite unpopular. Notley had higher opinion ratings than he did. The UCP won in spite of Kenny not because of him. It is Alberta, a dead fish as leader of the UCP would have won this election
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I don't know if anyone without the aggression of Kenny would've won that landslide. It's not only about the winning - it's also about how much he'd won.


“None of our political leaders understand the current anger of Albertans,” Jean wrote. “Albertans want a ‘Mad as hell’ Party, that isn’t going to take it anymore.”
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Majority of Canadians in all regions but Quebec believe lack of oil pipelines is a crisis: poll | National Post


Of course, SNC-Lavalin scandal also showed too that Trudeau doesn't care about other jobs outside Quebec.
So many scandals attached to Trudeau. Wasn't it the Sponsorship scandal that brought us Harper?

So many things to fuel Canadians' anger when the cost of carbon tax starts hitting us personally.
That's what I'm counting on: The anger.

Of course too, 5 provinces right now led by Conservative Premiers, who no doubt would all work together to help Scheer topple Trudeau.
 
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So.....what's the point of raising minimum wage if you're going to get gouged at practically every side
by this carbon tax?

Do low-income earners finally get ahead? Not in your dreams.

I was bitchin' about the price of celery......and what do I see next?


In Canada, the 8-Dollar Cauliflower Shows the Pain Of Falling Oil Prices

Majority of Canadians in all regions but Quebec believe lack of oil pipelines is a crisis: poll | National Post


Lol. 8 dollars for a cauliflower? In Ottawa?
Am I in Canada?




How does Trudeau expect low-income earners to "change their habit. To change their lifestyle to be more environmentally friendly?"
IT COSTS! A LOT!

Like as if it's a matter of choice for many.
Can everyone afford an electric car? Can everyone afford to renovate their houses?

So.....who suffers the most with this carbon tax? THE LOW-INCOME EARNERS!


I want to see how Canadians feel by summer!
Boy, with the heat (no air-con, not even an electric fan), and the soaring prices......
I suppose practically everyone will be livid by then, that they couldn't wait for October! :lamo
 
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Corrections above for price of cauliflower. I missed the date on it - it was 2016. Too late to edit.
 
tosca1 said:
I don't know if anyone without the aggression of Kenny would've won that landslide. It's not only about the winning - it's also about how much he'd won.



Majority of Canadians in all regions but Quebec believe lack of oil pipelines is a crisis: poll | National Post


Of course, SNC-Lavalin scandal also showed too that Trudeau doesn't care about other jobs outside Quebec.
So many scandals attached to Trudeau. Wasn't it the Sponsorship scandal that brought us Harper?

So many things to fuel Canadians' anger when the cost of carbon tax starts hitting us personally.
That's what I'm counting on: The anger.

Of course too, 5 provinces right now led by Conservative Premiers, who no doubt would all work together to help Scheer topple Trudeau.
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It is Alberta

The province that elected the PCs for 40 straight years up until a split in the conservative vote allowed the NDP to get in.

Kenny is about as popular as a dead fish. Someone likable would have gotten more votes and more seats. There was almost no way the UCP was going to lose this election
 
tosca1 said:
I don't know if anyone without the aggression of Kenny would've won that landslide. It's not only about the winning - it's also about how much he'd won.



Majority of Canadians in all regions but Quebec believe lack of oil pipelines is a crisis: poll | National Post


Of course, SNC-Lavalin scandal also showed too that Trudeau doesn't care about other jobs outside Quebec.
So many scandals attached to Trudeau. Wasn't it the Sponsorship scandal that brought us Harper?

So many things to fuel Canadians' anger when the cost of carbon tax starts hitting us personally.
That's what I'm counting on: The anger.

Of course too, 5 provinces right now led by Conservative Premiers, who no doubt would all work together to help Scheer topple Trudeau.
Click to expand...

First, bad as SNC-Lavalin is (and it's made me decide not to vote in the next election) it does not say that Trudeau doesn't care about jobs outside of Quebec. Why do you think the little bastard bought a pipeline?

Second, 5 provincial premiers can't possibly work together on anything. They're all Conservatives in name only- each province has it's own Conservative Party and the Alberta version is actually a coalition. Come to think, this version of the Conservative Party of Canada is a coalition too, kind of- the Reform Party and the PC's joined about 10 years ago. But the provincial parties are each separate.
Ford in Ontario might be more supportive of the federal Tories than Kenney.
 
tosca1 said:
I'll agree with you on that. With our current climate, it'll be hard for someone like him....... but, not impossible.
Look at Harper.

Kenny or not, I see little to no hope for Conservatives in Quebec. But the rest of Canada? That depends.
Social conservatism took a backseat during the Alberta election.
Not even the gender of Notley (the last woman standing), mattered a whit.
Come to think of it - what happened to all the female premiers?

The issue foremost in everyone's mind is the pipeline and the economy. That same issue resonates among majority of Canadians.
Click to expand...
Social conservatism did come up, especially as the UCP had a ludicrous number of candidates forced to resign for being social conservatives and some that even got elected. There were a lot of election issues around social policies like supporting GSAs but is Alberta so social conservatism doe snot matter. Social conservatism makes you unelectable outside of the prairies, Harper knew that, Scheer knows that. Why do you think that both Harper, Scheer, and most other Western Conservatives traditionally shy away from social issues? Because they know social conservatism is death sentence if they do. The party as a whole has even tried to distance itself from it. Kenney made his career by being a social conservative, he cannot escape it no matter how much he can try, and like I said he is now hated outside of the West. Scheer is struggling to distance himself from the social conservatives and he was never strongly associated with them. Social conservative policies remove all paths to victory for the Conservatives.

All Alberta cares that they have a Conservative government in power in the the province they do not care about anything else. If they cared about the economy they would have voted for the party trying to diversify and makes Alberta's economy more sustainable. Also it is Alberta, they tolerate social conservatism. To them all problems are caused by the Liberals and NDP, they have chosen to learn the hard way.


Majority of Canadians in all regions but Quebec believe lack of oil pipelines is a crisis: poll | National Post

I'm angry for Albertans. I see the terrible unfairness from the Trudeau adminstration (more so made glaring by his meddling with SNC-Lavalin).
I see the federal government playing politics with our economy, with people's lives.
I see a federal government that puts partisanship (the Liberal Party), above everything else.
Click to expand...

A right-leaning newspaper using a survey conducted by a right-leaning polling firm says that Canadians want pipelines except Quebec so they can attack it? How convenient. What exactly do you want Trudeau to do? How exactly is the Trudeau government being unfair? It is a provincial issue, maybe if Alberta didn't antagonize Quebec and BC they might be able to help get them built. Give them something for it, maybe share royalties with them, give them something they can use to sell it to the public. Believe it or not just do it for the sole economic benefit of Alberta is not a good reason for those outside of Alberta.

I know you are a fan of Trump's negotiation tactics, that is what Quebec is doing to Alberta.
 
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