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Trudeau is pooched.

If the election was tomorrow - I think I would spoil my ballot.
It’s 0 for 3.
Is the marijuana party still a thing? Probably not.
 
RCMP seized cell phones from PMO, according to Kinsella.

RCMP is investigating. The optics aren't good. This will drag for months!
Corruptions from Sponsorship scandal is being mentioned by media, and compared to this.


If charges are laid - Trudeau is indeed, truly pooched.
Who'd believe he isn't behind this (even without any physical evidence)?
 
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ajn678 said:
It was only a matter of time before his incompetence caught up with him.
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What the brave and highly principled Ms Jody Wilson-Raybold suffered from Trudeau and his thugish advisers was not 'incompetence' but sustained bullying in an attempt to defy the Canadian constitution and to break the law.

If we ever hear anyone say 'there is no such thing as an honest politician' we can prove the opposite just by saying 'Jodi Wilson-Raybould'.
 
tosca1 said:
RCMP seized cell phones from PMO, according to Kinsella.

RCMP is investigating. The optics aren't good. This will drag for months!
Corruptions from Sponsorship scandal is being mentioned by media, and compared to this.


If charges are laid - Trudeau is indeed, truly pooched.
Who'd believe he isn't behind this (even without any physical evidence)?
Click to expand...

Havent heard this got a link?
 
Carjosse said:
I have to agree and a new leader should be selected, I think Freeland would be a good leader. However, it is going to take much more than this for me to vote NDP or Conservative and I believe many others will feel the same way especially if Trudeau resigns and a new leader is chosen.

I have no doubts that a Conservative government would have done an identical thing for SNC or a company in Alberta.
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Re: the bolded, perhaps. But we voted for better than the Conservatives, that's what we were sold.

I like Freeland as well, she might be the best way to pull the party out of the fire, as long as she was in no way connected to this nightmare. But if the allegations prove true, then everyone involved should resign. Even there it will be difficult to reestablish trust, but without doing so it will be impossible. Don't forget, this was the Liberals' redemption song, after their decimation in 2011.
 
tosca1 said:
RCMP seized cell phones from PMO, according to Kinsella.

RCMP is investigating. The optics aren't good. This will drag for months!
Corruptions from Sponsorship scandal is being mentioned by media, and compared to this.


If charges are laid - Trudeau is indeed, truly pooched.
Who'd believe he isn't behind this (even without any physical evidence)?
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hehe...re: the bolded, it's funny how much like an Lefty you sound right now... ;)

That said, I can't help but agree - it doesn't look good. This is why I want it investigated as soon as possible - I don't want this hanging over my head like Trump hangs over the heads of his supporters. Get it sorted, let's have the answers, and in plenty of time for folks to include this in their decision next fall.
 
lwf said:
If everyone who supported a politician and later regretted it owed an apology, we'd all be apologizing to each other constantly. At least you didn't tune in to your favorite conspiracy theory website in order to figure out how to spin it as a positive, call the negative aspects fake-news, and call the subsequent investigation a witch hunt.

My own country could use a lot more staunch supporters like you and a lot fewer of the kind we too often see on the political right.
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hehe...these days, given the tone of discourse, we probably ought to be apologizing to each other all the time. I'm Canadian, so I have no choice in the matter, it's part of the cost of citizenship... ;)

I can't speak for anyone else, but I know that when I think I'm right I can most certainly out-asshole anyone trying to tell me otherwise...hehe...while that's sometimes a lot of fun, and very gratifying, occasionally it leaves one with their ass showing. Apologizing in those moments is about the best I can do, given that turning off the asshole seems an impossibility at this point in my life.
 
Quag said:
I dont think Trudeau is pooched, he may be but time will tell. There are a lot of people who dont really care about this. Personally I think they should care. Any politician or political party trying to interfere with the justice system for partisan political purposes is an attack on the democratic system
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I don't know, man...the Liberals were kind of on probation to begin with, and a lot of people remember the sponsorship business. This isn't AS bad, but it's pretty bad as a follow up.

I think the big winner here will be the NDP. I believe that Canada is still not yet interested in the current iteration of the CPC, at least not to support a majority, and I think this actually hurt them, given the number of Liberals that will switch to NDP - I predict a major NDP campaign focus on "Anything But Conservative" again - they will suddenly be VERY for strategic voting...haha... It could be their year...as slightly terrifying as that is.
 
tosca1 said:
What about Jody Wilson-Raybould? I think she'd make an excellent leader.


I assume she's recently spoken to cabinet about her awful experience.
Let's wait and see who'll break ranks, and stand with her on this (if any among them will).

So far.....she's the only one that shows incredible principle and integrity among the bunch.
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Yeah, I actually really like this idea - in terms of putting a credible face on the Liberal party, she would be the number one at the moment, I would think. Freeland is also a great option, so long as she wasn't connected to this - she did a great job protecting this country during the NAFTA negotiations, I'd vote for her as well.
 
Surrealistik said:
So what is it you have against the NDP exactly? Specific policy positions? I mean I'm not sure I see the draw per today's Liberals; pretty much the only big highlight thus far has been marijuana's legalization which was both flawed, and something the NDP would have done anyways.

The only reason I voted for Trudeau is the fact that Mulcair moronically thought it'd be a smart idea to alienate his base (and the general electorate) by going further to the right than the Liberals, and the former, in part as a direct result of that absurd strategic blunder, had the best chance of keeping the Cons out of governance.

I would agree though that this controversy would not be enough for me to vote for the mouthpiece party of the rich over that of the neoliberals if the next election came down to a choice between the two.
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Jumping in...cuz I wanna.. :)

My issue with the NDP is that while I really like a lot of their ideologies and vision for the future, I never really see the big picture, in terms of how they are going to make it happen. 2015 was a year of wild promising in any direction they could for the NDP, making poor Mulcair look like a used car salesman. There was nothing they wanted to do that I was again...I just had no confidence that they would make it happen. Plus, the NDP are nearly equivalent with the CPC, in terms of ugly campaigns and rabid, exhausting fringe supporters.

Given this combination, and how important I personally feel these initiatives are, I am concerned that the NDP will **** it up, and it will be decades before Canadians are willing to give it another shot. I mean, hell, LOTS of folks are still talking about Rae Days in Ontario...how long ago was that? :lol:

That all said, if it looks like the only way to avoid a CPC government, I'll 100% be voting NDP.
 
OlNate said:
I don't know, man...the Liberals were kind of on probation to begin with, and a lot of people remember the sponsorship business. This isn't AS bad, but it's pretty bad as a follow up.
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Actually I think its worse, sponsorship was just about money, this is much more. Some people/groups being protected from the law by political actions is a fundamental attack on the democratic society

I think the big winner here will be the NDP. I believe that Canada is still not yet interested in the current iteration of the CPC, at least not to support a majority, and I think this actually hurt them, given the number of Liberals that will switch to NDP - I predict a major NDP campaign focus on "Anything But Conservative" again - they will suddenly be VERY for strategic voting...haha... It could be their year...as slightly terrifying as that is.
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Maybe not sure how Singh will do but again I think there are a lot of people less interested in politics and something as nebulous as this than those of us who post here so Trudeau might scrape by. However an RCMP investigation really could cook Trudeaus goose.
 
tosca1 said:
What about Jody Wilson-Raybould? I think she'd make an excellent leader.


I assume she's recently spoken to cabinet about her awful experience.
Let's wait and see who'll break ranks, and stand with her on this (if any among them will).

So far.....she's the only one that shows incredible principle and integrity among the bunch.
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Here is one MP Liberal from Whitby (also suggesting principle and integrity), who supports her:
MP Celina Caesar-Chavannes

Truth is power. Proud of you. ✊��

MP Celina ���� on Twitter: "Truth is power. Proud of you. ✊��"
 
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Surrealistik said:
I will grant that Singh is not a stellar leader... but then neither are Sheer nor Trudeau. On the flipside, I do believe that as a historically less popular party, the NDP does need someone a cut above the other two in order to win, and this would have been a perfect opportunity for someone like Jack Layton. That having been said, I can't say I know where you're getting the idea of the NDP being divided from.

As to economic and foreign policy, I'm not sure what you can really point to that stands out for either. Trudeau took up some principled stances on the latter which I generally agree with, but nothing that really wows me. In terms of economic policy, I don't see the sort of urgent retooling and infrastructure projects this country needs to convincingly diversify away from fossil fuels and lay the foundations for participation in a 21st century global economy; the Kinder debacle was a glaring disaster in the meanwhile. I suppose I can approve of his desire to engage in trade relations, but he seems more than a tad too eager to sell out sovereignty to dangerous pacts like the TPP which accords far too much power to corporate entities and IP holders.
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The two major Liberal economic achievements that I can think of off the top of my head are their handling of the NAFTA negotiations and legalizing pot. Those two things would alone would make me vote for them again (albeit only if they replace Trudeau if these allegations prove true).

I don't think the NDP will ruin either of those things, so again, if it came down to strategic voting, I would also vote for the NDP. But you can't take those two things away from the Liberals, they were huge.
 
OlNate said:
Yeah, I actually really like this idea - in terms of putting a credible face on the Liberal party, she would be the number one at the moment, I would think. Freeland is also a great option, so long as she wasn't connected to this - she did a great job protecting this country during the NAFTA negotiations, I'd vote for her as well.
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Freeland's been interviewed on CBC radio - she tries to defend Trudeau by trying to justify his statement about being a member of Papineau.
Lol, that statement by Trudeau is indefensible. Trudeau can't even deny it - all he could do was give talking points.


In my view, anyone who defends Trudeau at this point (without hearing the FULL STORY), is most likely the same as Trudeau! No integrity and no principle!

If we're shocked by what we found out from Raybould's testimony - betcha there is much more serious to hide (the time frame that she's forbidden to disclose).

Don't forget - Freeland was also a reckless loudmouth like her boss (on Saudi Arabia, and Trump - while we were in negotiations over NAFTA)!
 
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Quag said:
Actually I think its worse, sponsorship was just about money, this is much more. Some people/groups being protected from the law by political actions is a fundamental attack on the democratic society



Maybe not sure how Singh will do but again I think there are a lot of people less interested in politics and something as nebulous as this than those of us who post here so Trudeau might scrape by. However an RCMP investigation really could cook Trudeaus goose.
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Fair enough...perhaps it's the "fan boy" in me that sees "bad deed, good intention" making this less offensive than the sponsorship scandal.

I think the fact that many Canadians are less engaged than we are makes them susceptible to branding...this is a huge headline, and if the NDP brand this right, they can add it to the general distaste the majority of Canadians have re: the CPC, and make a good run at it. Remember, last time around they had it at the beginning - it was their election to lose. With the halo knocked off of Trudeau, it might be all they need.

Time will tell...it's also possible this happened early enough to be forgotten, though both the CPC and the NDP would be idiots if they didn't drag this out as long as they can, so that it's fresh in the mind of voters...haha...but even there they have to be careful, as Canadians tend not to enjoy prolonged scandal as much as our friends to the south. ;)

As I said, it will be an interesting year.
 
tosca1 said:
Freeland's been interviewed on CBC radio - she tries to defend Trudeau by trying to justify his statement about being a member of Papineau.
Lol, that statement by Trudeau is indefensible. Trudeau can't even deny it - all he could do was give talking points.

In my view, anyone who defends Trudeau at this point (without hearing the FULL STORY), is most likely the same as Trudeau! No integrity and no principle!

If we're shocked by waht we found out from Raybould's testimony - betcha there is much more serious to hide (the time frame that she's forbidden to disclose).

Don't forget - Freeland was also a reckless loudmouth, like her boss (on Saudi Arabia, and Trump)!
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Freeland stood up for what was right on both SA and Trump. No matter your political affiliation, I think you owe her at least a little respect. Most conservatives I know are willing to give it...I'm surprised you are not. Trump is not a friend of Canada, and neither is the SA royal family. Taking a tough stance in both of those situations was the appropriate thing to do, based on protecting Canada, and reflecting the views of the majority of it's citizens.

However, if she was directly involved this this gong show, then ya, she'd be a no for me as well.
 
OlNate said:
Fair enough...perhaps it's the "fan boy" in me that sees "bad deed, good intention" making this less offensive than the sponsorship scandal.
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I dont see good intentions. The jobs would not have disappeared. SNC may have lost the ability to bid on govt contracts (still may) but that just means another company would get the work. This was 100% partisan politics.

I think the fact that many Canadians are less engaged than we are makes them susceptible to branding...this is a huge headline, and if the NDP brand this right, they can add it to the general distaste the majority of Canadians have re: the CPC, and make a good run at it. Remember, last time around they had it at the beginning - it was their election to lose. With the halo knocked off of Trudeau, it might be all they need.
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All true possibilities

Time will tell...it's also possible this happened early enough to be forgotten, though both the CPC and the NDP would be idiots if they didn't drag this out as long as they can, so that it's fresh in the mind of voters...haha...but even there they have to be careful, as Canadians tend not to enjoy prolonged scandal as much as our friends to the south. ;)
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An RCMP investigation may drag it out for them
As I said, it will be an interesting year.
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True dat
 
Quag said:
Havent heard this got a link?
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Sorry. It was fake news. I got it from another forum. The twitter was taken down.
 
OlNate said:
Freeland stood up for what was right on both SA and Trump.

No matter your political affiliation, I think you owe her at least a little respect. Most conservatives I know are willing to give it...I'm surprised you are not. Trump is not a friend of Canada, and neither is the SA royal family. Taking a tough stance in both of those situations was the appropriate thing to do, based on protecting Canada, and reflecting the views of the majority of it's citizens.

However, if she was directly involved this this gong show, then ya, she'd be a no for me as well.
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If Liberals want to get rid of the stigma of corruption that's attached to the Liberal Party like an umbilical cord - you really have to clean house! You need people like Raybould!

If Raybould were Conservative - I would vote for her! I'll probably even volunteer to campaign for her!


Anyone who tries to defend Trudeau's statement about him being the member of Papinea (and that election is coming) at this point, by saying there's nothing inappropriate with that - you've gotta question their integrity!

I've admired Freeland before (during her negotiations with NAFTA amid Trudeau's gaffes with Trump), and I could even overlook her TACKLESS tweet about Saudi Arabia (if you are aiming to have a dialogue over human right abuses - you don't shame countries via TWEET. Undiplomatic! That's Trump's signature. Don't have to copycat Trump!).

I could also overlook her tackless interview in New York (while we were in the midst of negotiating with Trump).

But, trying to defend Trudeau's SELF-SERVING interference over SNC?
Now, I see her like I see Trudeau. If she doesn't think there's anything inappropriate with that -
boy, to me, that means she doesn't think there's anything wrong with corruption (as long as you can justify it)!

Too bad. She's just another Liberal politician along the same mold of Trudeau!
 
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tosca1 said:
If Liberals want to get rid of the stigma of corruption that's attached to the Liberal Party like an umbilical cord - you really have to clean house! You need people like Raybould!

Anyone who tries to defend Trudeau's statement about him being the member of papinea (and that election is coming) at this point by saying there's nothing inappropriate with that - you've gotta question their integrity!

I've admired Freeland before (during her negotiations with NAFTA amid Trudeau's gaffes with Trump), and I could even overlook her TACKLESS twit about Saudi Arabia (if you are aiming to have a dialogue over human right abuses - you don't shame countries via TWEET. That's Trump's signature. Don't have to copycat Trump!).

could also overlook her tackless interview in New York (while we were in the midst of negotiating with Trump).

But, trying to defend Trudeau's SELF-SERVING interference over SNC?
Now, I see her like I see Trudeau. If she doesn't think there's anything inappropriate with that - boy, to me, that means she doesn't think there's anything wrong with corruptions (as long as you can justify it)!

She's just another Liberal politician along the same mold of Trudeau!
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I don't disagree... :shrug: It would be a shame to throw the baby out with the bathwater, as, again and to your point, she did some really good work for the country. But if that's what it takes, that's what it takes. I'm not really the "take no prisoners" type, I think a varying degree of involvement demands a varying degree of response, but at the same time I won't make myself a hypocrite by criticizing how the other parties operate in our country and not hold my own to the same standard. So, if a few people need to burn to reestablish credibility, well...they shouldn't have stood so close to the fire.

I'll let you know exactly how I come down on all of this when all the details come out - something I hope happens sooner than later. But I think reestablishing the credibility of our government in general should be the priority - it's been a lot of years since we've had that, and it looks like no side is better than the other in that regard.
 
Quag said:
I dont think Trudeau is pooched, he may be but time will tell. There are a lot of people who dont really care about this. Personally I think they should care. Any politician or political party trying to interfere with the justice system for partisan political purposes is an attack on the democratic system
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Can you believe Morneau saying it was 'approporiate' for someone in his Finance Ministry to raise the subject of SNC Lavalin jobs with the Justice Minister's office? Where does he get off thinking ANY interference with the legal process is 'appropriate'?
I've always voted Liberal when I voted, except for that year I voted Rhino. I nearly sat the last one out, being unsure of Trudeau 2.0 but the Conservative Party ads pissed me off enough to get me off my ass and into the booth but unless they can pull something amazingly classy out of the hat here I won't vote for them again 'till Trudeau's history.
Doesn't matter, really- my riding's solid NDP but still. With the rift in the Conservative Party this kind of thing is liable to give us an NDP minority and gawd help us all then.
 
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