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The hate speech double standard in Canada.

stevecanuck

stevecanuck

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Whenever a non-Muslim criticizes a tenet of Islam, even if it's a no-brainer like questioning the directive in verse 4:34 for Muslim men to beat their disobedient wives, accusations of 'Islamophobia' and automatic dismissal of the argument are sure to follow. As we descend further into politically correct fascism, which is characterized by the instantaneous branding of a person as an 'Islamophobe' or a Nazi, honest and open debate is simply not tolerated, regardless of how fact-based the criticism may be. Ironically, many of those crying 'Islamophobia' are non-Muslims who have never opened the Qur'an and have zero knowledge of Islam and what it teaches about them. I suspect they are afraid of what they might learn and do not want to deal with the possibility that Islam is not compatible with the modern, secular world.

In stark contrast to this self-imposed censorship, Licia Corbella showed in her column of January 4 that a Muslim cleric can say that wishing Christians a Merry Christmas is worse than murder, and do so while the media stares at its shoes. Even more noticeably absent than media exposure was condemnation of the cleric from fellow Muslims or so much as one politician. Imagine the wall-to-wall coverage and the colour of Prime Minister Trudeau's face if a Christian minister were to tell his congregation that saying, “Ramadan kareem” is worse than murder.

Most Westerners are blissfully unaware of the hateful statements that appear in the Qur'an and are allowed to be preached because they are protected from hate speech laws. Here are some examples of blatant Infidelophobia from the Qur'an:

- Saying God has a son is a monstrous belief (19:98 - 99).
- God is the enemy of unbelievers (2:98).
- God does not love unbelievers (3:32).
- Unbelievers are unto you (Muslims) open enemies (4:101).
- Do not take Christians and Jews as friends or protectors (5:51).
- Christians and Jews have evil practices, and the priests and rabbis who do not stop them are evil (5:62 - 63).
- In their (unbelievers) hearts is a disease (2:10).
- Verses 2:6 to 2:20 continuously denigrate unbelievers.
- Muslims are strong against the unbeliever, and compassionate with each other (48:29).
- Jews have failed to obey the Torah, so they are like donkeys who carry books but don't understand them (62:5).

Perhaps 49:7 says it most directly - "God has made unbelief hateful to you". This is God telling Muslims that any belief other than Islam is not merely wrong or misguided, but "hateful".
 
stevecanuck said:
Whenever a non-Muslim criticizes a tenet of Islam, even if it's a no-brainer like questioning the directive in verse 4:34 for Muslim men to beat their disobedient wives, accusations of 'Islamophobia' and automatic dismissal of the argument are sure to follow. As we descend further into politically correct fascism, which is characterized by the instantaneous branding of a person as an 'Islamophobe' or a Nazi, honest and open debate is simply not tolerated, regardless of how fact-based the criticism may be. Ironically, many of those crying 'Islamophobia' are non-Muslims who have never opened the Qur'an and have zero knowledge of Islam and what it teaches about them. I suspect they are afraid of what they might learn and do not want to deal with the possibility that Islam is not compatible with the modern, secular world.

In stark contrast to this self-imposed censorship, Licia Corbella showed in her column of January 4 that a Muslim cleric can say that wishing Christians a Merry Christmas is worse than murder, and do so while the media stares at its shoes. Even more noticeably absent than media exposure was condemnation of the cleric from fellow Muslims or so much as one politician. Imagine the wall-to-wall coverage and the colour of Prime Minister Trudeau's face if a Christian minister were to tell his congregation that saying, “Ramadan kareem” is worse than murder.

Most Westerners are blissfully unaware of the hateful statements that appear in the Qur'an and are allowed to be preached because they are protected from hate speech laws. Here are some examples of blatant Infidelophobia from the Qur'an:

- Saying God has a son is a monstrous belief (19:98 - 99).
- God is the enemy of unbelievers (2:98).
- God does not love unbelievers (3:32).
- Unbelievers are unto you (Muslims) open enemies (4:101).
- Do not take Christians and Jews as friends or protectors (5:51).
- Christians and Jews have evil practices, and the priests and rabbis who do not stop them are evil (5:62 - 63).
- In their (unbelievers) hearts is a disease (2:10).
- Verses 2:6 to 2:20 continuously denigrate unbelievers.
- Muslims are strong against the unbeliever, and compassionate with each other (48:29).
- Jews have failed to obey the Torah, so they are like donkeys who carry books but don't understand them (62:5).

Perhaps 49:7 says it most directly - "God has made unbelief hateful to you". This is God telling Muslims that any belief other than Islam is not merely wrong or misguided, but "hateful".
Click to expand...

What does this sentence mean? "Licia Corbella showed in her column of January 4 that a Muslim cleric can say that wishing Christians a Merry Christmas is worse than murder, and do so while the media stares at its shoes. " Who is Licia Corbella, where does her column appear, and is she saying that a Muslim cleric DID say that or did she speculate that one could?
And you really don't want to be in the position of comparing the Bible to any other scripture in terms of hate.
 
How is it "hate speech" for a cleric to tell Muslims that they should not wish Merry Christmas?
 
Grand Mal said:
What does this sentence mean? "Licia Corbella showed in her column of January 4 that a Muslim cleric can say that wishing Christians a Merry Christmas is worse than murder, and do so while the media stares at its shoes. " Who is Licia Corbella, where does her column appear, and is she saying that a Muslim cleric DID say that or did she speculate that one could?
And you really don't want to be in the position of comparing the Bible to any other scripture in terms of hate.
Click to expand...

My bad. Yes he said it.

Page not found | MEMRI TV

From the video starting at 1:13, "If a person were to commit every major sin...murder, committing adultery, dealing with interest...if a person were to do all of those major sins, they are nothing compared to the sin of congratulating and greeting the non-Muslims on their false festivals".

He's not just making this up. He's using the Qur'an as the basis for this statement. Here's how that works in 3 easy, linear steps:

1. Saying that God has a son is blasphemous and a lie. (5:72 - "They do blaspheme who say, 'Allah is Christ the son of Mary'", 5:73 - "They do blaspheme who say Allah in one of three in a trinity", 4:171 - "Jesus Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger of Allah....say not 'Trinity'", 6:101 - "How can God have a son if he has no partner?", and 17:111 - "Allah, who begets no son") - 19.98 - 99 - Saying God has a son is a monstrous belief. There are many more.

2. Combine that unambiguous position with verses 29:68 - "Who does more wrong than one who invents a lie against God?", and 4:48 - "God forgiveth not that partners shall be set up with Him. He forgiveth anything else.", and we are left with the inescapable conclusion that all other crimes, including murder, are forgivable and therefore lesser.

3. Verse 4:85 Wraps the bow around it with this: "whoever recommends and helps an evil cause, shares in its burden".

Pretty straight forward and unassailable logic, mish kidda? What the Imam is demonstrating for anyone honest enough to view this objectively is that Islam is incompatible with the modern world.
 
Amelia said:
How is it "hate speech" for a cleric to tell Muslims that they should not wish Merry Christmas?
Click to expand...

So, you skipped right over the worse-than-murder part. Did you read the quotes? Let's try this - I'm going to make a few statements about Muslims, and you tell me if they qualify as hate speech:

God is the enemy of Muslims.
God does not love Muslims.
In Muslim's hearts is a disease.

Now, if I had simply posted that with no explanation, what sort of names would you be calling me????

Like I said - double standard.
 
stevecanuck said:
So, you skipped right over the worse-than-murder part. Did you read the quotes? Let's try this - I'm going to make a few statements about Muslims, and you tell me if they qualify as hate speech:

God is the enemy of Muslims.
God does not love Muslims.
In Muslim's hearts is a disease.

Now, if I had simply posted that with no explanation, what sort of names would you be calling me????

Like I said - double standard.
Click to expand...


The Bible says and promotes some pretty hateful things but most don't go around accusing Bible believers of hatefulness just for considering it a holy book.
 
I have found that the first defense of the oppressive passages in the three Abrahamic religions is usually " you dont understand the context".


No, I think we do, and no amount of wordplay, double talk, and moral philosophizing can alter the meanings.

It places followers of said religions in a bit of a pickle; knowing full well that acting on the words is an abomination, yet refusing to refute "Gods words" , knowing it would place them in the untenable position of having to acknowledge that the written word of thier chosen god may not be so holy after all.


How can the holy word be wrong after all? Does that not then cast thier faith into question? Or thier entire religion? Is smiting all unbelievers really not practiced by the true followers? If not, why? Isnt the word of the supreme deity to be obeyed?
 
And you can find very similar if not verbatim things in not just the other Abrahamic religions but in many others as well.
 
stevecanuck said:
My bad. Yes he said it.

Page not found | MEMRI TV

From the video starting at 1:13, "If a person were to commit every major sin...murder, committing adultery, dealing with interest...if a person were to do all of those major sins, they are nothing compared to the sin of congratulating and greeting the non-Muslims on their false festivals".

He's not just making this up. He's using the Qur'an as the basis for this statement. Here's how that works in 3 easy, linear steps:

1. Saying that God has a son is blasphemous and a lie. (5:72 - "They do blaspheme who say, 'Allah is Christ the son of Mary'", 5:73 - "They do blaspheme who say Allah in one of three in a trinity", 4:171 - "Jesus Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger of Allah....say not 'Trinity'", 6:101 - "How can God have a son if he has no partner?", and 17:111 - "Allah, who begets no son") - 19.98 - 99 - Saying God has a son is a monstrous belief. There are many more.

2. Combine that unambiguous position with verses 29:68 - "Who does more wrong than one who invents a lie against God?", and 4:48 - "God forgiveth not that partners shall be set up with Him. He forgiveth anything else.", and we are left with the inescapable conclusion that all other crimes, including murder, are forgivable and therefore lesser.

3. Verse 4:85 Wraps the bow around it with this: "whoever recommends and helps an evil cause, shares in its burden".

Pretty straight forward and unassailable logic, mish kidda? What the Imam is demonstrating for anyone honest enough to view this objectively is that Islam is incompatible with the modern world.
Click to expand...

Stevecanuck:

Bad link. Comes up as a 404 error.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
In stark contrast to this self-imposed censorship, Licia Corbella showed in her column of January 4 that a Muslim cleric can say that wishing Christians a Merry Christmas is worse than murder, and do so while the media stares at its shoes. Even more noticeably absent than media exposure was condemnation of the cleric from fellow Muslims or so much as one politician. Imagine the wall-to-wall coverage and the colour of Prime Minister Trudeau's face if a Christian minister were to tell his congregation that saying, “Ramadan kareem” is worse than murder.
Click to expand...

Asked which groups were most often targeted by the hate speech, 62 per cent of Quebecers responded Muslims, compared to 46 per cent in Canada as a whole in a survey. Nationally, 25 per cent said the hate speech they had seen was most often directed against immigrants, 18 per cent against Blacks, eight per cent against LGBTQ and five per cent against Jews. So naturally, Canada's hate speech law is directed toward protecting immigrants from hate speech. But hate speech against white people is also considered a public order offence in Britain, its mother country with a more developed legal system of hate speech prosecution. A black woman who subjected passengers on a London bus to a venomous diatribe against "whites" was arrested in 2012.

A woman has been arrested by police officers investigating claims that a black woman made racist comments about white people on a London bus, Scotland Yard said today.

The Metropolitan Police said a 34-year-old woman was arrested this afternoon at an address in Hackney on suspicion of a racially aggravated public order offence and is being questioned at an east London police station.

Racist rant London bus: Police investigate outburst by passenger posted on YouTube | Daily Mail Online


Police have released images of two women wanted in connection with a suspected racist attack on a Muslim woman who was punched and kicked on a London bus.

Scotland Yard said they were treating the alleged assault as a hate crime after witnesses heard two female suspects shouting racist and Islamophobic abuse at the victim.

Officers were called to the incident on the No 63 bus in London Road, Southwark, south London, at about 8.10pm on 28 October. Both suspects are described as black females aged in their 20s. No arrests have been made.

Police seek two women over suspected racist attack on London bus | UK news | The Guardian
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Amelia said:
The Bible says and promotes some pretty hateful things but most don't go around accusing Bible believers of hatefulness just for considering it a holy book.
Click to expand...

Sorry, if you're not going to respond to the points I made and quotes I gave, then I'm not going to indulge your little red herring.
 
stevecanuck said:
Sorry, if you're not going to respond to the points I made and quotes I gave, then I'm not going to indulge your little red herring.
Click to expand...

I'm crushed.

Adios.
 
Bum said:
I have found that the first defense of the oppressive passages in the three Abrahamic religions is usually " you dont understand the context".


No, I think we do, and no amount of wordplay, double talk, and moral philosophizing can alter the meanings.

It places followers of said religions in a bit of a pickle; knowing full well that acting on the words is an abomination, yet refusing to refute "Gods words" , knowing it would place them in the untenable position of having to acknowledge that the written word of thier chosen god may not be so holy after all.


How can the holy word be wrong after all? Does that not then cast thier faith into question? Or thier entire religion? Is smiting all unbelievers really not practiced by the true followers? If not, why? Isnt the word of the supreme deity to be obeyed?
Click to expand...

That is the indeed the choice they face.
 
ThirdTerm said:
But hate speech against white people is also considered a public order offence in Britain, its mother country with a more developed legal system of hate speech prosecution. A black woman who subjected passengers on a London bus to a venomous diatribe against "whites" was arrested in 2012.
Click to expand...



Very informative. Thanks.

Wish we Americans had laws forbidding people of color to insult Caucasians.

And laws forbidding people of color to insult other people of color. (Contrary to the liberal mantra, people of color CAN also be racists.)
 
stevecanuck said:
Whenever a non-Muslim criticizes a tenet of Islam, even if it's a no-brainer like questioning the directive in verse 4:34 for Muslim men to beat their disobedient wives, accusations of 'Islamophobia' and automatic dismissal of the argument are sure to follow. As we descend further into politically correct fascism, which is characterized by the instantaneous branding of a person as an 'Islamophobe' or a Nazi, honest and open debate is simply not tolerated, regardless of how fact-based the criticism may be. Ironically, many of those crying 'Islamophobia' are non-Muslims who have never opened the Qur'an and have zero knowledge of Islam and what it teaches about them. I suspect they are afraid of what they might learn and do not want to deal with the possibility that Islam is not compatible with the modern, secular world.

In stark contrast to this self-imposed censorship, Licia Corbella showed in her column of January 4 that a Muslim cleric can say that wishing Christians a Merry Christmas is worse than murder, and do so while the media stares at its shoes. Even more noticeably absent than media exposure was condemnation of the cleric from fellow Muslims or so much as one politician. Imagine the wall-to-wall coverage and the colour of Prime Minister Trudeau's face if a Christian minister were to tell his congregation that saying, “Ramadan kareem” is worse than murder.

Most Westerners are blissfully unaware of the hateful statements that appear in the Qur'an and are allowed to be preached because they are protected from hate speech laws. Here are some examples of blatant Infidelophobia from the Qur'an:

- Saying God has a son is a monstrous belief (19:98 - 99).
- God is the enemy of unbelievers (2:98).
- God does not love unbelievers (3:32).
- Unbelievers are unto you (Muslims) open enemies (4:101).
- Do not take Christians and Jews as friends or protectors (5:51).
- Christians and Jews have evil practices, and the priests and rabbis who do not stop them are evil (5:62 - 63).
- In their (unbelievers) hearts is a disease (2:10).
- Verses 2:6 to 2:20 continuously denigrate unbelievers.
- Muslims are strong against the unbeliever, and compassionate with each other (48:29).
- Jews have failed to obey the Torah, so they are like donkeys who carry books but don't understand them (62:5).

Perhaps 49:7 says it most directly - "God has made unbelief hateful to you". This is God telling Muslims that any belief other than Islam is not merely wrong or misguided, but "hateful".
Click to expand...

Yes, yes, Steve, we get it, you hate Muslims.

So what's your argument here? You want to be just like the people you hate?
 
stevecanuck said:
Your right. Here's the link along with the Herald column and a follow up interview.

Canadian Cleric: Xmas Greetings Worse than Murder, Adultery | MEMRI TV

Corbella: Saying ‘Merry Christmas’ is ‘worse than murder’: B.C. cleric | Calgary Herald

Canadian Sheikh After MEMRI Clip: 'I Stand 100% By My Words' | MEMRI
Click to expand...

Stevecanuck:

I listened to the cleric's words and scanned the related articles and two things became clear to me.

1) The cleric's speech as cited in your clip was not hateful. The speech was directed at Muslims and was a warning that simple greetings which acknowledge the divinity of people or spirits compared to God/Allah are very sinful as they devalue the unique divinity of God/Allah. In this way uttering such statements, even out of a desire to be neighbourly, is a major insult to God/Allah and is thus a mortal sin (to use Roman Catholic nomenclature) and is strictly speaking haram (forbidden) by Islamic law and tradition. The road to hell being paved with good intentions and all that rot. The cleric follows up this rather fundamentalist prognostication about season's greetings with a warning to not be hateful or have enmity for non-believers and to treat them with and to entreat with them having proper respect, so your characterisation for this speech at least is probably too sensitive and implies hostility where it might not exist.

2) The cleric in question has a history of making inflammatory statements and has been under the scrutiny of Canadian authorities since 2005 for possible utterances of hate speech. To date he has not been charged and convicted of such a crime as far as I am aware, but he has been dancing on the line of such speech. Should he cross the line, then he'll be done by the authorities and you'll have a case to support your position. Until then, you'll have to look elsewhere.

Cheers and Salaam Alaikum.
Evilroddy ibn Roderick Abu Struan al Inverness.
 
OlNate said:
Yes, yes, Steve, we get it, you hate Muslims.

So what's your argument here? You want to be just like the people you hate?
Click to expand...

No, you do not get it. You're as far from "get it" as you can be. I don't expect you to engage based on what I posted, so I'm not about waste any more time on you. You're ad hominem responses are boring.
 
Evilroddy said:
Stevecanuck:

I listened to the cleric's words and scanned the related articles and two things became clear to me.

1) The cleric's speech as cited in your clip was not hateful. The speech was directed at Muslims and was a warning that simple greetings which acknowledge the divinity of people or spirits compared to God/Allah are very sinful as they devalue the unique divinity of God/Allah. In this way uttering such statements, even out of a desire to be neighbourly, is a major insult to God/Allah and is thus a mortal sin (to use Roman Catholic nomenclature) and is strictly speaking haram (forbidden) by Islamic law and tradition. The road to hell being paved with good intentions and all that rot. The cleric follows up this rather fundamentalist prognostication about season's greetings with a warning to not be hateful or have enmity for non-believers and to treat them with and to entreat with them having proper respect, so your characterisation for this speech at least is probably too sensitive and implies hostility where it might not exist.

2) The cleric in question has a history of making inflammatory statements and has been under the scrutiny of Canadian authorities since 2005 for possible utterances of hate speech. To date he has not been charged and convicted of such a crime as far as I am aware, but he has been dancing on the line of such speech. Should he cross the line, then he'll be done by the authorities and you'll have a case to support your position. Until then, you'll have to look elsewhere.

Cheers and Salaam Alaikum.
Evilroddy ibn Roderick Abu Struan al Inverness.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the reasoned and civil response.

Yes, he's talking to Muslims, but remember he's admonishing them based on Islam's view that Christianity is not merely wrong, but evil and monstrous. His admonition is based on hatred.

However, it's based on hatred that comes straight from the Qur'an, which means it's protected. That's why they can't charge him.
 
stevecanuck said:
No, you do not get it. You're as far from "get it" as you can be. I don't expect you to engage based on what I posted, so I'm not about waste any more time on you. You're ad hominem responses are boring.
Click to expand...

As is your exhausting islamophobia. It doesn't appear that your broken record approach is changing any minds, though, so whatever. But we ALL "get it". Trust me. We do.
 
OlNate said:
As is your exhausting islamophobia. It doesn't appear that your broken record approach is changing any minds, though, so whatever. But we ALL "get it". Trust me. We do.
Click to expand...

See something, say something, get called an Islamophobe.
 
OlNate said:
As is your exhausting islamophobia. It doesn't appear that your broken record approach is changing any minds, though, so whatever. But we ALL "get it". Trust me. We do.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, do you reject my claim that Islam teaches hatred and hostility toward all beliefs and people non-Muslim?
 
Further to verse 2:98, I merely quote the last phrase of it in the OP (God is the enemy of infidels). If you look at the whole verse, it's actually more specific than that. Here it is in all 7 of the most commonly used translations:

Sahih International: Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and His messengers and Gabriel and Michael - then indeed, Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers.

Pickthall: Who is an enemy to Allah, and His angels and His messengers, and Gabriel and Michael! Then, lo! Allah (Himself) is an enemy to the disbelievers.

Yusuf Ali: Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and messengers, to Gabriel and Michael,- Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith.

Shakir: Whoever is the enemy of Allah and His angels and His messengers and Jibreel and Meekaeel, so surely Allah is the enemy of the unbelievers.

Muhammad Sarwar: and as a confirmation of (original) Scripture and whoever is the enemy of God, His angels, His Messenger, Gabriel and Michael, should know that God is the enemy of those who hide the Truth..

Mohsin Khan: "Whoever is an enemy to Allah, His Angels, His Messengers, Jibrael (Gabriel) and Mikael (Michael), then verily, Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers."

Arberry: Whosoever is an enemy to God and His angels and His Messengers, and Gabriel, and Michael - surely God is an enemy to the unbelievers.'

You can see that 'God' is suggesting that simply being an unbeliever, in and of itself, automatically makes you "an enemy to God". This is just one of hundreds of verses that divide the world into 2 mutually antagonistic camps.
 
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