• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Canada relieved trade deal done, won't forget Trump attacks

Grand Mal said:
Coerced? Do you know what that means? Applying tariffs against a country you have a free-trade agreement with, and threatening more, while negotiating (in bad faith) is definitely coercion. Definitely as in 'defined as'.

As for weakness and stupidity, according to Trump Canada has been taking your lunch money for years and treating you very badly. Did someone mention whining?
Click to expand...

Has the USMCA been agreed to by the signatories?

Is Canada one of them?

Was there anyone forcing Canada to sign the agreement?

NAFTA was not a favorable agreement for the US. Some agreement was desirable, but that one was not a favorable one. The USMCA may or may not be better for the US, but does have the 6 year reviews built in.

That aspect all my itself is an improvement.
 
Yes_Minister said:
You think I am whining? Stop debating me, because you know nothing about this issue and you care more about semantics about who is whining then making an actual good argument. Clearly you have to resort nonsense semantic arguments and personal insults, because you can't debate facts. Frankly its pointless to debate someone totally ignorant of the facts here, so have a good day. You can whine about who is whining to someone else, because you are not in my league when it comes to actually debating this issue.

I will leave your to your whining, about how the world is so unfair to Republicans:

The conservative persecution complex | The Princetonian
Click to expand...

More whining. And it's expanding to previously unmentioned topics.

Did I say anything about the world being unfair to Republicans in responding to your useless and pointless chain of posts?

The deal is done. Your complaints are pointless and useless if you are aiming at me. You really need to bring your self-proclaimed brilliance to Chrystia Freeland and Justin Trudeau.

I'm sure they will be quite grateful as you relay ideas and facts of which they are entirely unaware. You may be given a high award for service to the country. In the mean time:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/can...eral-trade-deal-with-u-s-and-mexico-1.4115731
<snip>
The new deal is called the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement, or USMCA for short, according to a joint statement from Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland and U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer that was issued late Sunday night.

“USMCA will give our workers, farmers, ranchers, and businesses a high-standard trade agreement that will result in freer markets, fairer trade and robust economic growth in our region. It will strengthen the middle class, and create good, well-paying jobs and new opportunities for the nearly half billion people who call North America home,” the statement said.
<snip>
 
Yes_Minister said:
Play nice with us and we do the same. Play rough and see why our national sport is hockey.
Click to expand...

It is cute that you think you matter. Grrrrrr. You are like a pit bull, or are you a hockey mom?

BTW I was in Ottawa recently. The number of Trump supporters was astonishing. Trump has the ability to end Trudeau easily. The Trump coalition in Canada can vote him out.
 
Bucky said:
It is cute that you think you matter. Grrrrrr. You are like a pit bull, or are you a hockey mom?

BTW I was in Ottawa recently. The number of Trump supporters was astonishing. Trump has the ability to end Trudeau easily. The Trump coalition in Canada can vote him out.
Click to expand...

Its a joke man, lighten up.

And a few red hats in Ottawa does not mean there is a massive Trump base in Canada:

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...ing-disapprove-of-donald-trump-poll-says.html

https://globalnews.ca/news/4253033/trump-arrogant-trudeau-weak-canadians-opinions/

What do you think, that when Trump says stuff like ''Canada has been taking advantage of the US for decades'' or says ''Canada is going to lose a lot of money because our tariffs'', that Canadians would nod their heads and hope Trump tries to wreck Canada, just because they love Trump so much.

Canadians can be patriotic too and we do not like some arrogant US President trying to push us around.
 
code1211 said:
More whining. And it's expanding to previously unmentioned topics.

Did I say anything about the world being unfair to Republicans in responding to your useless and pointless chain of posts?

The deal is done. Your complaints are pointless and useless if you are aiming at me. You really need to bring your self-proclaimed brilliance to Chrystia Freeland and Justin Trudeau.

I'm sure they will be quite grateful as you relay ideas and facts of which they are entirely unaware. You may be given a high award for service to the country. In the mean time:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/can...eral-trade-deal-with-u-s-and-mexico-1.4115731
<snip>
The new deal is called the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement, or USMCA for short, according to a joint statement from Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland and U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer that was issued late Sunday night.

“USMCA will give our workers, farmers, ranchers, and businesses a high-standard trade agreement that will result in freer markets, fairer trade and robust economic growth in our region. It will strengthen the middle class, and create good, well-paying jobs and new opportunities for the nearly half billion people who call North America home,” the statement said.
<snip>
Click to expand...

''More whining'' translates to stop saying things I do not agree with, anything that is not a GOP talking point eh? Every time you talk about whining, I am treat you like you are not a serious debater and just want to troll, because you want to engage in name calling rather then an actual debate. Stop acting like you are in the 5th grade.

I keep asking questions that you seem unwilling to answer, why these steel tariffs still place, why has Canada done to deserve them and what can Canada do get Trump to drop these tariffs. If you can't come up with answers to these, then frankly you do not know enough to debate on this issue in a competent manner.
 
Yes_Minister said:
Its a joke man, lighten up.

And a few red hats in Ottawa does not mean there is a massive Trump base in Canada:

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...ing-disapprove-of-donald-trump-poll-says.html

https://globalnews.ca/news/4253033/trump-arrogant-trudeau-weak-canadians-opinions/

What do you think, that when Trump says stuff like ''Canada has been taking advantage of the US for decades'' or says ''Canada is going to lose a lot of money because our tariffs'', that Canadians would nod their heads and hope Trump tries to wreck Canada, just because they love Trump so much.

Canadians can be patriotic too and we do not like some arrogant US President trying to push us around.
Click to expand...

What I do know through experience is that Canadians are drowning in taxes. Because of their dairy cartel, the average person is paying 500 more in a year because of this.

Canadians are sick of their incompetent government. Trudeau is like his father, hurting Canadians with high taxes.
 
Bucky said:
What I do know through experience is that Canadians are drowning in taxes. Because of their dairy cartel, the average person is paying 500 more in a year because of this.

Canadians are sick of their incompetent government. Trudeau is like his father, hurting Canadians with high taxes.
Click to expand...

That is a narrow way to look at things in Canada, some Canadians would agree with that and some wouldn't, but do you think Canadians that think taxes are too high, are going to be glad when Trump bashed Canada or threatened to cost Canada a ton of money? There are right wing Canadians, but a lot of them are not going to like Trump bashing Canada.
 
Yes_Minister said:
''More whining'' translates to stop saying things I do not agree with, anything that is not a GOP talking point eh? Every time you talk about whining, I am treat you like you are not a serious debater and just want to troll, because you want to engage in name calling rather then an actual debate. Stop acting like you are in the 5th grade.

I keep asking questions that you seem unwilling to answer, why these steel tariffs still place, why has Canada done to deserve them and what can Canada do get Trump to drop these tariffs. If you can't come up with answers to these, then frankly you do not know enough to debate on this issue in a competent manner.
Click to expand...

Your questions should be directed to Chrystia Freeland and Justin Trudeau. I thought we already covered this.

My understanding is that all three countries are applying tariffs on steel. Is that not the case?
 
code1211 said:
Your questions should be directed to Chrystia Freeland and Justin Trudeau. I thought we already covered this.

My understanding is that all three countries are applying tariffs on steel. Is that not the case?
Click to expand...

Except Trump started it by placing steel tariffs on the other two countries, does Trump bare no fault in this, do you think him immune to personal responsibility?
 
Yes_Minister said:
Except Trump started it by placing steel tariffs on the other two countries, does Trump bare no fault in this, do you think him immune to personal responsibility?
Click to expand...

Why do you continue to whine?

Did I say ANYTHING about Trump?
 
code1211 said:
Why do you continue to whine?

Did I say ANYTHING about Trump?
Click to expand...

Why do you continue to act like a spoiled teenager who says ''stop whining'' instead of actually debating points? Every time you say that phrase, you are saying you are not a serious debater, because any fool could say that, it says nothing and means you have nothing arguments. I bet you cannot debate this issue without falling back on that canned responses a child could make.

It doesn't matter whether you said anything about Trump, he is part of this issue and you seem to want to stay ignorant and not acknowledge that, so whether you mention him or not doesn't change his role in this.

Trump is the one who put up the first tariffs, you cannot discuss this issue with acknowledging that point, its a fact, so this is not an issue that is wholly internal to Canada, its something imposed on Canada by the US, so just saying its up to Trudeau to solve it is false, because he did not impose the first tariffs, Trump did and both Mexico and Canada would drop these counter tariffs if Trump dropped the original ones. Do you understand how this works now or are going to not acknowledge some basic facts and should I assume you have no idea what you are talking about?
 
Last edited:
Yes_Minister said:
Why do you continue to act like a spoiled teenager who says ''stop whining'' instead of actually debating points? Every time you say that phrase, you are saying you are not a serious debater, because any fool could say that, it says nothing and means you have nothing arguments. I bet you cannot debate this issue without falling back on that canned responses a child could make.

It doesn't matter whether you said anything about Trump, he is part of this issue and you seem to want to stay ignorant and not acknowledge that, so whether you mention him or not doesn't change his role in this.

Trump is the one who put up the first tariffs, you cannot discuss this issue with acknowledging that point, its a fact, so this is not an issue that is wholly internal to Canada, its something imposed on Canada by the US, so just saying its up to Trudeau to solve it is false, because he did not impose the first tariffs, Trump did and both Mexico and Canada would drop these counter tariffs if Trump dropped the original ones. Do you understand how this works now or are going to not acknowledge some basic facts and should I assume you have no idea what you are talking about?
Click to expand...

Were there no tariffs before Trump came to office enforced by either Canada or the US?

You seem to be raving irrationally.
 
code1211 said:
Were there no tariffs before Trump came to office enforced by either Canada or the US?

You seem to be raving irrationally.
Click to expand...

There were no steel tariffs between these 3 countries before Trump (unless you want to go back pretty far, to the 30s or something), there were dairy tariffs on Canada's side and lumber tariffs on the US side before Trump. So how are these tariffs an internal affair to Canada if Trump is one who imposed the first round of recent steel tariffs, you can actually give a straight answer to that or do you want admit defeat? If you just say ''stop whining'' I take that as you admitting defeat.

I am not ranting irrationally, I am losing some patience with your ignorance on this issue and your mindless ''stop whining'' response to cover up for the fact that you debate in an ignorant and/or dishonest manner and taking you task for it. Its annoying having to explain things to constantly and you saying ''stop whining'' when you do not seem to understand anything relevant about this issue. People get annoyed when someone seems to be willfully ignorant.
 
Yes_Minister said:
There were no steel tariffs between these 3 countries before Trump (unless you want to go back pretty far, to the 30s or something), there were dairy tariffs on Canada's side and lumber tariffs on the US side before Trump. So how are these tariffs an internal affair to Canada if Trump is one who imposed the first round of recent steel tariffs, you can actually give a straight answer to that or do you want admit defeat? If you just say ''stop whining'' I take that as you admitting defeat.

I am not ranting irrationally, I am losing some patience with your ignorance on this issue and your mindless ''stop whining'' response to cover up for the fact that you debate in an ignorant and/or dishonest manner and taking you task for it. Its annoying having to explain things to constantly and you saying ''stop whining'' when you do not seem to understand anything relevant about this issue. People get annoyed when someone seems to be willfully ignorant.
Click to expand...

So tariffs DID exist before Trump.

Trump decided to use tariffs as they were currently being used by both Canada and the US to protect or invigorate industries that he wished to protect or invigorate.

Is this what you are asserting?
 
code1211 said:
So tariffs DID exist before Trump.

Trump decided to use tariffs as they were currently being used by both Canada and the US to protect or invigorate industries that he wished to protect or invigorate.

Is this what you are asserting?
Click to expand...

Yes the concept of tariffs existed before Trump, welcome to trade 101.

I am saying Trump put these steel tariffs in place because he wanted an uneven playing field that favored US steel makers over Canadian and Mexican ones. So this fair trade stuff is BS on his part and I bet you do not know how supply chains work.

If you want complain about dairy tariffs, let me ask you this, how much Canadian dairy is sold in the US and vice versa and how much does the US subsidize its dairy industry? Trump did get more access to Canadian dairy market, was that not good enough?

Lighthizer said these tariffs would be dropped after a deal was done, a deal was done and the tariffs remained in place, so you guys just moved the goal posts.
 
code1211 said:
Has the USMCA been agreed to by the signatories?

Is Canada one of them?

Was there anyone forcing Canada to sign the agreement?

NAFTA was not a favorable agreement for the US. Some agreement was desirable, but that one was not a favorable one. The USMCA may or may not be better for the US, but does have the 6 year reviews built in.

That aspect all my itself is an improvement.
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter how many years are built in. An agreement with America isn't worth the paper it's written on. If Trump decides next year he doesn't like part of this one he'll unilaterally tear it up and demand another. Or if another President gets elected who doesn't like it he might tear it up and demand another. That's the new reality when you deal with America. Handshake? Forget it! A signature and stamp don't count anymore when you deal with Americans.
It's gonna cost you in the long run.
 
Yes_Minister said:
Yes the concept of tariffs existed before Trump, welcome to trade 101.

I am saying Trump put these steel tariffs in place because he wanted an uneven playing field that favored US steel makers over Canadian and Mexican ones. So this fair trade stuff is BS on his part and I bet you do not know how supply chains work.

If you want complain about dairy tariffs, let me ask you this, how much Canadian dairy is sold in the US and vice versa and how much does the US subsidize its dairy industry? Trump did get more access to Canadian dairy market, was that not good enough?

Lighthizer said these tariffs would be dropped after a deal was done, a deal was done and the tariffs remained in place, so you guys just moved the goal posts.
Click to expand...

You guys? Sorry. I wasn't there.

Luckily, you still have time to get this valuable information to the Canadian negotiating team before any real damage is done.
 
Carjosse said:
So your criticism of Trudeau is he wears multi-coloured socks? Do you have any real points? Our prime minister actually knows what being a leader of a nation means.
Click to expand...

Is that why your leader capitulated to Trump?
 
Grand Mal said:
Doesn't matter how many years are built in. An agreement with America isn't worth the paper it's written on. If Trump decides next year he doesn't like part of this one he'll unilaterally tear it up and demand another. Or if another President gets elected who doesn't like it he might tear it up and demand another. That's the new reality when you deal with America. Handshake? Forget it! A signature and stamp don't count anymore when you deal with Americans.
It's gonna cost you in the long run.
Click to expand...

Well, then, the obvious solution is for Canada to just pull the plug and freeze the USA out of its trade agreements altogether.
 
code1211 said:
Well, then, the obvious solution is for Canada to just pull the plug and freeze the USA out of its trade agreements altogether.
Click to expand...

I advocated that when Trump was threatening more tariffs on top of tariffs while NAFTA was still in effect. Bully tactics during negotiations.
Before Reagan and Mulroney negotiated the Canada-USA Free Trade Agreement there was a fine trade relationship, and when Bush Sr. wanted Mexico brought on board it certainly wasn't to benefit Canada. Just forget about agreements between the two countries- trade happens between companies anyway.
 
Grand Mal said:
I advocated that when Trump was threatening more tariffs on top of tariffs while NAFTA was still in effect. Bully tactics during negotiations.
Before Reagan and Mulroney negotiated the Canada-USA Free Trade Agreement there was a fine trade relationship, and when Bush Sr. wanted Mexico brought on board it certainly wasn't to benefit Canada. Just forget about agreements between the two countries- trade happens between companies anyway.
Click to expand...

I think the goal of the thing is to create a trading block that will benefit the three involved.

It would probably be a good idea to include the rest of Central America as well in an effort to take the "banana" aspects out of the banana republics down there.

If the poor bastards down there had prospects filled with hope and courage instead of fear and despair, they wouldn't be trying to escape. They only want to be like us. Sorry about the digression.

Trump's approach is to help the little guy in the US to find a job. It's been a while since an American president acted like he wanted to help the little guy. Welcome change.

Wouldn't it be great if a car manufacturer or telecom company was pumping out products in Honduras? No different than this dream for Korea or Mexico in the seventies.

 
code1211 said:
I think the goal of the thing is to create a trading block that will benefit the three involved.

It would probably be a good idea to include the rest of Central America as well in an effort to take the "banana" aspects out of the banana republics down there.

If the poor bastards down there had prospects filled with hope and courage instead of fear and despair, they wouldn't be trying to escape. They only want to be like us. Sorry about the digression.

Trump's approach is to help the little guy in the US to find a job. It's been a while since an American president acted like he wanted to help the little guy. Welcome change.

Wouldn't it be great if a car manufacturer or telecom company was pumping out products in Honduras? No different than this dream for Korea or Mexico in the seventies.

Click to expand...

Central America is not developed enough to really become a manufacturing hub. They have no infrastructure, as well as bad geography. That is why Costa Rica focuses on tourism and Panama has a focus on financial services.
 
Carjosse said:
Central America is not developed enough to really become a manufacturing hub. They have no infrastructure, as well as bad geography. That is why Costa Rica focuses on tourism and Panama has a focus on financial services.
Click to expand...

Seems like you're describing Mexico in the early 90's.

The long term solution to the immigration issue is to make the s-hole countries more desirable as homes and less dangerous for the natural born there. That would be a side benefit of including these countries in a NAFTA-style deal.

When there's a chicken in every pot and a car in every garage- oh, and garages, too- then the folks in Honduras will be be pleased to take a job where they grew up.

Beats walking 1500 miles to get arrested. The problem is, if the process starts today, they are about 20 or 25 years away from getting where they need to be.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom