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[W:99]Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

Re: Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

Evilroddy said:
Buzz62:

Premier Ford is pre-emptively declaring that he will ignore the decisions of Ontario's courts, even before they make those decisions. That shows contempt for the Rule of Law, because he is not objecting to their actual decisions (which have not been made yet) but is objecting to the idea that the courts can limit his political freedom to rule Ontario. Premiers are not rulers, they are elected representatives and managers who are supposed to work for the public good and provide the province with peace, order and good governance, not authoritarian rule. By pre-emptively dismissing the courts' power to constrain government freedom of action within the Rule of Law, Mr. Ford is saying that he and his administration are effectively above the law and will ignore and overrule the courts which enforce the Rule of Law.

I come from Quebec where the authoritarian ancien regime mentality of successive Quebec governments has caused them to use the Not Withstanding Clause to overrule the law of the land on quite a few occasions since 1980. Being an Anglo-Québécois several of those invocations of the Not Withstanding Clause were aimed squarely at my minority community, my language, my freedoms and my profession (I am a teacher). I can tell you from personal experience that being on the receiving end of such government diktats which overrule the law is frustrating, humiliating and poisons the society with malice and anger for decades. So I would not be so quick to discount the seriousness of what Mr. Ford is proposing/threatening to do, without even knowing how the courts will come down on future issues.

Yes, Mr. Ford and the Conservatives won the election and Ontario voters will have to live with their decision for better or for worse. But they elected a premier, not a president, a Caesar or a king and Mr. Ford and his party must still function under the Rule of Law.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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Ahhh Les Quebecois...
I was a young lad in Ottawa when the FLQ crisis hit.
It was an interesting time. But here's the legal rub.
As the PQ was elected on a platform of separation from the rest of Canada, and to reform Quebec into a land where Quebecois French and culture are very dominant, it was their mandate to ignore the courts. Ford believes its his mandate to ignore the courts too. And having voted for him, I agree. As did quite a few Quebecois when the PQs used the 'Not Withstanding" clause. Ford's job, what he was elected to do, was not to follow the traditional edicts of the courts, but to affect change to the status quo. To return common sense to the swill of the previous government.
And frankly...this kaka about Ford being some sort of dictator wannabe, is just plain old unsubstantiated sound-bytes. Its meaningless.
If you wanna see real dictators, go join a pack of ANTIFA and/or BLM monsters. They actually act like authoritarians.
 
Re: Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

OlNate said:
:lamo Oh, sweet, naïve Buzz. C'mon. Don't pull that "prove it" nonsense with me, we both know I can't. But I was listening to the boys back when they had a show on 1010, and their feelings about the Toronto City Council, widely and openly expressed, would leave anyone with a double digit IQ with little doubt nevertheless. He's been waiting all this time to get a chance to screw them over, and the moment he does, look what happens... lol... Now just be a real man for five seconds and admit the obvious, so that we can keep on being honest with each other. You're a Torontonian, I lived in the GTA when all that went down, we both know what's up. I'm not even going to say I wasn't cheering for them at the time....lol... I liked Rob, he was always a superior version of Doug, outside of the crack and binge drinking drama.
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Ya I've heard some of their shows too. And both of them felt the council was too big and too expensive. They picked on some of the more ridiculous councilors and made allot of noise. The problem is Nate, I agreed with them then, and I agree with Doug now. So does the majority of Ontario voters, and so does the majority of Torontonians.
 
Re: Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

Buzz62 said:
...it was their mandate to ignore the courts. Ford believes its his mandate to ignore the courts too. And having voted for him, I agree.
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Buzz62:

This part of your above post speaks volumes. You seem to ave the same contempt for the Rule of Law which Mr. Ford has demonstrated recently. Birds of a feather and all that, eh?

Well give it time and we shall all see if Mr. Ford turns out to be an authoritarian or not. My money is on his being one.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Re: Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

Buzz62 said:
Ya I've heard some of their shows too. And both of them felt the council was too big and too expensive. They picked on some of the more ridiculous councilors and made allot of noise. The problem is Nate, I agreed with them then, and I agree with Doug now. So does the majority of Ontario voters, and so does the majority of Torontonians.
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Polls show they don't (in the article I linked for you, specifically). It's close, but it's not a majority. That should matter, though, I think.

Honestly, I liked them less because of their show. They were supremely petty... I remember even then thinking "Damn, this is classiness in our government?" It was a gong show...a populist echo chamber that they used to abuse their colleagues. Yes, there were some knuckleheads on council, for sure. But is it too much to ask our representatives to act professionally while on our dime?

I'll be honest with you, bud, talking to you is sometimes pretty discouraging. I'm not strictly opposed to "traditional Progressive Conservative" ideologies. But what has replaced it is beyond depressing.
 
Re: Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

Doug Ford has a full on vendetta for Toronto. They wouldn't elect him and they turfed his brother. Then his brother died of cancer shortly after, which he surely blames on the city. He hates Toronto and it shows in his politics. Now that he's Premier he's trying to be the Mayor of Toronto at a distance. I'm sure there are plenty of other city councils in Ontario that could use some slashing, but nope... he has to slash Toronto's. Not to mention he specifically targeted the voting ridings of his opponents. How this is even legal, I don't know. It's not about money anyway because the remaining city councilors will have to hire additional staff to pickup the slack. What's really going on is that city council knows the Fords are a joke on politics and they don't take him seriously, so he's out for blood. It's revenge basically.

He didn't get elected because the majority of Ontario actually wants him. He won because of first past the post, which is winner-takes-all, combined with low voter turnout. The right wing base that supports Ford will always show up to vote because they are fanatical, and they always show up ASAP. They are just like Trump supporters. When the rational voting population becomes disillusioned with the electoral process, they stop showing up, and then the crazies have their way. Most of the rural bumpkins have loads of free time to vote but city people can't usually vote until evening time when work is done and they've gone through rush hour.

In any case, he's not doing what's good for Ontario, he's just doing what's good for his minority base and his personal opinions. I feel bad for Ontario and especially Toronto. The next few years are going to be hell for them. They have a Premier who's trying to control the city from the province and he doesn't even bother hiding it.
 
Re: Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

Buzz62 said:
He doesn't need to "show" his balls...nobody has a magnifying glass that strong.
But I don't see where he's using them at all.


If a tool exists and never gets used...its useless.
This isn't "alt-right" Nate, it's common sense. Just ask the majority of Torontonians.
Click to expand...

I'm no Trudeau 2.0 fan. Bastard had no business using our money to buy a pipeline, I don't care how much it's needed. But if Harper was up against Trump our whole country would be just a franchise of the home office in Washington by now.
 
Re: Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

Buzz62 said:
Ya ya ya...I'm not gonna wade through this book.
Nobody asked me, a citizen of the city, if I thought more counsilors would be a good way to waste tax money.
Whatever this "public consultation" was...it was apparently done on the sly.

Again...the majority of Torontonians AGREE with 25 wards and councilors.
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What do you expect them to do? Put billboards, take out an extensive online ad campaign? Most likely like a census they asked a random selection of several thousand Torontonians. The population of Toronto is ~3 million, they are not going to consult everyone.
 
Re: Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

Evilroddy said:
Buzz62:

This part of your above post speaks volumes. You seem to ave the same contempt for the Rule of Law which Mr. Ford has demonstrated recently. Birds of a feather and all that, eh?

Well give it time and we shall all see if Mr. Ford turns out to be an authoritarian or not. My money is on his being one.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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Indeed. The law gives Ford this venue to exercise his judgement, based on his democratically awarded election and mandate. that does not sound like breaking the law to me. Does it to you somehow?
 
Re: Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

OlNate said:
Polls show they don't (in the article I linked for you, specifically). It's close, but it's not a majority. That should matter, though, I think.

Honestly, I liked them less because of their show. They were supremely petty... I remember even then thinking "Damn, this is classiness in our government?" It was a gong show...a populist echo chamber that they used to abuse their colleagues. Yes, there were some knuckleheads on council, for sure. But is it too much to ask our representatives to act professionally while on our dime?

I'll be honest with you, bud, talking to you is sometimes pretty discouraging. I'm not strictly opposed to "traditional Progressive Conservative" ideologies. But what has replaced it is beyond depressing.
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I agree with you that they sometimes seemed petty and classless. However I completely abhor the slime the oozes from the average politician.
I don't weight 'professionalism' the same as you, because I don't like slimy bastards putting their arm over my shoulder soothingly, while the stick a shiv in my back. If it takes a bit of classlessness to expose this faux concern the average politician has for me, then so be it.
 
Re: Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

Grand Mal said:
I'm no Trudeau 2.0 fan. Bastard had no business using our money to buy a pipeline, I don't care how much it's needed. But if Harper was up against Trump our whole country would be just a franchise of the home office in Washington by now.
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lol...do you know what percentage of the Canadian economy is outright owned by US interests?
 
Re: Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

Carjosse said:
What do you expect them to do? Put billboards, take out an extensive online ad campaign? Most likely like a census they asked a random selection of several thousand Torontonians. The population of Toronto is ~3 million, they are not going to consult everyone.
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Then they didn't really consult with the public...did they.
They payed it lip-service, and passed it as consultation.
They could have held a civic referendum. That would be consulting the public.
But that was't gonna happen because...they already know where the public would fall on this one.
 
Re: Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

Buzz62 said:
Then they didn't really consult with the public...did they.
They payed it lip-service, and passed it as consultation.
They could have held a civic referendum. That would be consulting the public.
But that was't gonna happen because...they already know where the public would fall on this one.
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Statistically it is sound, that is all you need to get a representative sample according to statistical theory. Just because they did not ask you does not mean what they did is invalid. Should the federal and provincial governments have a referendum every time the ridings are redrawn?

Do you have any evidence that adding more wards was unpopular?
 
Re: Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

Carjosse said:
Statistically it is sound, that is all you need to get a representative sample according to statistical theory. Just because they did not ask you does not mean what they did is invalid. Should the federal and provincial governments have a referendum every time the ridings are redrawn?

Do you have any evidence that adding more wards was unpopular?
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Statistical theory...:lamo
A new poll, provided exclusively to CTV News Toronto, shows nearly half of Torontonians agree that city council should be reduced to 25 councillors.
The online survey, conducted by Navigator on behalf of the Ontario Real Estate Association, suggests while there is "no strong consensus" among respondents, 48 per cent agree with the Ford government's cut. Thirty-four per cent of respondents are opposed.
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https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/poll-nea...should-be-reduced-to-25-councillors-1.4055086
That's as of Aug. 16. Half of those surveyed agreed with this reduction. Only 34% opposed.
There's your statistics. Enjoy.
 
Re: Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

Buzz62 said:
Statistical theory...:lamo

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/poll-nea...should-be-reduced-to-25-councillors-1.4055086
That's as of Aug. 16. Half of those surveyed agreed with this reduction. Only 34% opposed.
There's your statistics. Enjoy.
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Online surveys mean nothing.

In statistical theory, a random sample of 1000 people will generate an accurate representation of a n-sized population. Do you not believe in statistics?
 
Re: Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

Carjosse said:
Online surveys mean nothing.

In statistical theory, a random sample of 1000 people will generate an accurate representation of a n-sized population. Do you not believe in statistics?
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Whatever...it's a sly move by dicks who already know Torontonians would never agree to this ****.
 
Re: Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

Carjosse said:
Globe article here. Looks like Doug Ford is the equivalent of an ill-behaved toddler being told no, he is throwing an on the ground limbs-flailing tantrum over not being to take out some petty revenge on Toronto city council. He did not even choose to appeal it he is going straight for the nuclear option. Apparently Doug Ford is willing to void the charter rights of the citizens of Toronto just take out some petty revenge, not even appeal the decision, straight to nuclear. Not to mention how stupid the idea is in the first place, you cannot change the rules of an election the middle of the election, especially when all authorities deemed those old rules as necessary.

Who can justify support such an immature toddler for premier of the province? Ford is a joke.
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What concerns me most of all is his complete contempt for the rule of law and the courts such that he is willing to take unprecedented steps to push this, and the fact this downsizing of councilors was nowhere on his campaign platform: it materialized completely out of the ether. No one voted for this, or wanted it, and whatever little legitimacy/mandate his election gave him (given the nature of FPTP, and actual % of people that actually voted him into power) is inapplicable in this case.

As a Toronto resident, if he wants to compromise and hold a referendum on the matter among Torontonians, I'm all for it, until then he can **** right off.
 
Re: Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

Buzz62 said:
lol...do you know what percentage of the Canadian economy is outright owned by US interests?
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And neither do you, but I'm not talking about the normal function of the marketplace. I'm talking about the operation of the government, as in a Harper government toeing the Washington line and doing what head office there says it should do. At least Trudeau is saying, "No deal is better than a deal that's bad for Canada." I give the devil his due in his position re. NAFTA.
 
Re: Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

Grand Mal said:
And neither do you, but I'm not talking about the normal function of the marketplace. I'm talking about the operation of the government, as in a Harper government toeing the Washington line and doing what head office there says it should do. At least Trudeau is saying, "No deal is better than a deal that's bad for Canada." I give the devil his due in his position re. NAFTA.
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Towing the Washington line. You don't really understand politics and Canada/US relations very well, do you. Fact is, Harper had better relations with Bush, Obama and has better relations with Trump. Why? Well because he knows the value of a strong friend. However he did piss the Americans off over the Atlantic sovereignty issue.

Just an observation but, I think you are so blinded by partisan identity politics, that you are hardly even interested in reality.

As for Pixey-Dust and NAFTA, Canada has little to fear from the US over trade. The 2 nations exchange millions of dollars on just about an hourly basis at the borders. That's been going on for a long long time now, and nobody is gonna frig that up. I think this is all just theater for the Trump base, and perhaps a bit of a political "dig" at Pixey-Dust and his whiny little trade rep. Chrystia Freeland, who is annoying to listen to, and likely annoying to sit and negotiate with.
 
Re: Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

Buzz62 said:
Towing the Washington line. You don't really understand politics and Canada/US relations very well, do you. Fact is, Harper had better relations with Bush, Obama and has better relations with Trump. Why? Well because he knows the value of a strong friend. However he did piss the Americans off over the Atlantic sovereignty issue.

Just an observation but, I think you are so blinded by partisan identity politics, that you are hardly even interested in reality.

As for Pixey-Dust and NAFTA, Canada has little to fear from the US over trade. The 2 nations exchange millions of dollars on just about an hourly basis at the borders. That's been going on for a long long time now, and nobody is gonna frig that up. I think this is all just theater for the Trump base, and perhaps a bit of a political "dig" at Pixey-Dust and his whiny little trade rep. Chrystia Freeland, who is annoying to listen to, and likely annoying to sit and negotiate with.
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It's interesting that you can make all this **** up and think you're making a valid argument.
 
Re: Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

KerouacJack said:
It's interesting that you can make all this **** up and think you're making a valid argument.
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I'n't it though.
Just about as interesting as your total lack of any argument. Have a nice day...Commie.
 
Re: Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

Buzz62 said:
I'n't it though.
Just about as interesting as your total lack of any argument. Have a nice day...Commie.
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I can't argue with your fantasies, it's your imagination vs reality. But there are psychiatrists that can help you out.
 
Re: Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

KerouacJack said:
I can't argue with your fantasies, it's your imagination vs reality. But there are psychiatrists that can help you out.
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:lamo
Mr. Commie. I am not about to let myself get dragged into a nonsensicle exchange of crap, with someone who's obviously bereft of any real arguments.
When you have a real argument rattling around in that head of yours...then we'll talk. Until then...
 
Re: Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

Buzz62 said:
:lamo
Mr. Commie. I am not about to let myself get dragged into a nonsensicle exchange of crap, with someone who's obviously bereft of any real arguments.
When you have a real argument rattling around in that head of yours...then we'll talk. Until then...
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My argument is that this post of yours
Towing the Washington line. You don't really understand politics and Canada/US relations very well, do you. Fact is, Harper had better relations with Bush, Obama and has better relations with Trump. Why? Well because he knows the value of a strong friend. However he did piss the Americans off over the Atlantic sovereignty issue.

Just an observation but, I think you are so blinded by partisan identity politics, that you are hardly even interested in reality.

As for Pixey-Dust and NAFTA, Canada has little to fear from the US over trade. The 2 nations exchange millions of dollars on just about an hourly basis at the borders. That's been going on for a long long time now, and nobody is gonna frig that up. I think this is all just theater for the Trump base, and perhaps a bit of a political "dig" at Pixey-Dust and his whiny little trade rep. Chrystia Freeland, who is annoying to listen to, and likely annoying to sit and negotiate with.
Click to expand...

contains close to zero factual information and written so terribly that nothing sound can be found within... Anyone with any critical thinking can see why. You have to prove you're own bullshet.
The fact you think we have nothing to fear about Canada/ US trade based on the fact that millions of trade has been happening before and can't change in the future because it happened before is assanine by logic.. the future is change; nothing is static. This new trade dispute and NAFTA renegotiation is actually reality telling you how dumb what you just wrote is. Look the dynamic is changing. You blind? It will effect Canada and American trade substantially going forward, those who are affected negatively have much to fear.
 
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Re: Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

KerouacJack said:
My argument is that this post of yours

contains close to zero factual information and written so terribly that nothing sound can be found within... Anyone with any critical thinking can see why. You have to prove you're own bullshet.
The fact you think we have nothing to fear about Canada/ US trade based on the fact that millions of trade has been happening before and can't change in the future because it happened before is the assanine by logic.. the future is change; nothing is static. This new trade dispute and NAFTA renegotiation is actually is reality telling you how dumb what you just wrote is. Look the dynamic is changing. You blind? It will effect Canada and American trade substantially going forward, those who are affected negatively have much to fear.
Click to expand...

Well...aside from the poor English...

Actually its YOUR posts which contain zero factual information.
The only idea that I can pick up from this post is...things change...:roll:
 
Re: Doug Ford to invoke notwithstanding clause to override judge’s Toronto council ruling

Buzz62 said:
Well...aside from the poor English...

Actually its YOUR posts which contain zero factual information.
The only idea that I can pick up from this post is...things change...:roll:
Click to expand...

translation (i know you are, but what i am)

I threw you a bone, but you appear to be stuck on stupid.
 
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