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Ontario's Sex Ed Curriculum Reversal

Carjosse said:
I think it is time to discuss probably what is probably just the first of many Ford blunders in an attempt to appeal to the social conservatives.

Ford is now backpedalling form a total reversal back to the old curriculum but is now saying more parents need to be consulted. This is despite the fact:


I personally feel several thousand parents is a good enough sample size and statistical theory on sample size would also say that is more than sufficient to get an accurate representation. But now Ford wants to waste taxpayer money consulting tens of thousands of parents on the already implemented curriculum. This is nothing but pure pandering to a social conservative base who do not want to see children properly educated and opposition comes from people who have never even read the actual curriculum.

Here is a summary of what is covered in the revised curriculum that Ford just removed. Students will no longer be taught about many things like the dangers of sexting, what makes a healthy relationship, homosexuality, etc. I have personally experienced being taught the old curriculum it is garbage and teaches nothing other than wear a condom and the changes in puberty.
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Just a couple of points of information related to this:

1. Ford made this a campaign promise and he was elected with a large majority of seats - promise made, promise kept.

2. The Liberal's new sex-ed curriculum was highly controversial and not at all popular with the general public where approximately 43% approved and 42% opposed the changes.

3. The Liberal's new sex-ed curriculum was written by Ministry of Education staff and teachers under the guidance and direction of a high Ministry official who just happens to now be serving several years in prison for pedophile activity, including attempts to have a mother engage in sex, online, with her daughters while this cretin watched. Just the type of individual parents want to see guiding their young ones prematurely into sexual areas of discussion/action.

4. You may think that 4000 parents, hand picked by school principals and Liberal Party operatives is representative of the greater public, but the greater public didn't think so.

The new Conservative government is in line for this kind of over the top attack because the Liberals who were thrown out of office by the public believe that only they know all the answers and solutions and only they are intelligent enough to rule. It's just that type of arrogance that has seen them reduced to a stump in parliament, not even strong enough to have official status in the legislature. I'll enjoy watching them and their supporters continue to bleat about the dismantling of the past 15 years of nanny state intervention into the lives of Ontario's citizenry.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Just a couple of points of information related to this:

1. Ford made this a campaign promise and he was elected with a large majority of seats - promise made, promise kept.

2. The Liberal's new sex-ed curriculum was highly controversial and not at all popular with the general public where approximately 43% approved and 42% opposed the changes.

3. The Liberal's new sex-ed curriculum was written by Ministry of Education staff and teachers under the guidance and direction of a high Ministry official who just happens to now be serving several years in prison for pedophile activity, including attempts to have a mother engage in sex, online, with her daughters while this cretin watched. Just the type of individual parents want to see guiding their young ones prematurely into sexual areas of discussion/action.

4. You may think that 4000 parents, hand picked by school principals and Liberal Party operatives is representative of the greater public, but the greater public didn't think so.

The new Conservative government is in line for this kind of over the top attack because the Liberals who were thrown out of office by the public believe that only they know all the answers and solutions and only they are intelligent enough to rule. It's just that type of arrogance that has seen them reduced to a stump in parliament, not even strong enough to have official status in the legislature. I'll enjoy watching them and their supporters continue to bleat about the dismantling of the past 15 years of nanny state intervention into the lives of Ontario's citizenry.
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You are incredibly idiotic if you believe people voted out the Liberals because of the sex ed curriculum. Why do you think the Conservatives are receiving so much blowback on this issue? There was a lot of controversy until it was actually implemented and pretty much all the opposition stopped as people actually learned what was in the curriculum.

But of course you blindly hate anything the Liberals do and you fail to bring up any valid point against curriculum. No matter what you say children still need accurate and current sex education.
 
Carjosse said:
You are incredibly idiotic if you believe people voted out the Liberals because of the sex ed curriculum. Why do you think the Conservatives are receiving so much blowback on this issue? There was a lot of controversy until it was actually implemented and pretty much all the opposition stopped as people actually learned what was in the curriculum.

But of course you blindly hate anything the Liberals do and you fail to bring up any valid point against curriculum. No matter what you say children still need accurate and current sex education.
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I understand, that as a Liberal you have zero interest in keeping promises you make to the electorate during a campaign - there's nothing more cynically dishonest than a campaigning Liberal.

As a Liberal, you prefer to lie to the voting public and then after you get elected do whatever you feel like doing regardless of what you ran on.

Perhaps you forget that prior to the Wynne government enacting this new sex ed curriculum the McGuinty Liberals tried to enact the very same new sex ed curriculum, opposed by a large segment of the population, and they found themselves in an election where they went from a majority government to a minority, in part because of this new curriculum. Then McGuinty resigned because of his all around dishonesty and corruption and Wynne came in and ignored the public's opposition to the new curriculum and imposed it on the public anyway because, as all Liberals do, they believe they are better at running people's lives than they are themselves.

And of course, Wynne being gay, she claimed the new curriculum was only opposed by homophobes, something you've tried to imply as well in your comments in this thread. As with all Liberals, if someone doesn't agree with you, you label them. Others claimed that Wynne had trouble and lost because she's a woman. No Liberal will ever admit they've made a mistake and people don't like what they're doing because they simply don't like or want the policy - it's always blamed on some ulterior motive. Liberals are utterly shameless and totally destructive when given the reigns of power.

We'll see what happens in the next several months as the Conservatives consult with the public and propose a new curriculum. My guess is that much of the key areas of discussion will be included but at a much more age appropriate level. But of course you blindly hate anything the Conservatives do and you fail to bring up any valid point against proper consultation with a larger sampling of parents. No matter what you say, children are still the prime responsibility of their parents and they will decide on such sensitive areas of education.
 
CanadaJohn said:
I understand, that as a Liberal you have zero interest in keeping promises you make to the electorate during a campaign - there's nothing more cynically dishonest than a campaigning Liberal.

As a Liberal, you prefer to lie to the voting public and then after you get elected do whatever you feel like doing regardless of what you ran on.

Perhaps you forget that prior to the Wynne government enacting this new sex ed curriculum the McGuinty Liberals tried to enact the very same new sex ed curriculum, opposed by a large segment of the population, and they found themselves in an election where they went from a majority government to a minority, in part because of this new curriculum. Then McGuinty resigned because of his all around dishonesty and corruption and Wynne came in and ignored the public's opposition to the new curriculum and imposed it on the public anyway because, as all Liberals do, they believe they are better at running people's lives than they are themselves.

And of course, Wynne being gay, she claimed the new curriculum was only opposed by homophobes, something you've tried to imply as well in your comments in this thread. As with all Liberals, if someone doesn't agree with you, you label them. Others claimed that Wynne had trouble and lost because she's a woman. No Liberal will ever admit they've made a mistake and people don't like what they're doing because they simply don't like or want the policy - it's always blamed on some ulterior motive. Liberals are utterly shameless and totally destructive when given the reigns of power.

We'll see what happens in the next several months as the Conservatives consult with the public and propose a new curriculum. My guess is that much of the key areas of discussion will be included but at a much more age appropriate level. But of course you blindly hate anything the Conservatives do and you fail to bring up any valid point against proper consultation with a larger sampling of parents. No matter what you say, children are still the prime responsibility of their parents and they will decide on such sensitive areas of education.
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Again you fail to point out any problems with the curriculum, just attack the Liberals. Sex education, especially at younger ages is needed so that students are actually informed on matters of sexual abuse, sexuality, and safe sex. It cannot be left up to parents who may start too late, if at all, or fail to talk about everything important. The rest of society bares the cost of that failure.
 
Carjosse said:
Again you fail to point out any problems with the curriculum, just attack the Liberals. Sex education, especially at younger ages is needed so that students are actually informed on matters of sexual abuse, sexuality, and safe sex. It cannot be left up to parents who may start too late, if at all, or fail to talk about everything important. The rest of society bares the cost of that failure.
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Typical Liberal view of the world - people are incapable of living their own lives without the intervention of the state in everything they do. Might be news to you, but most people reject the constant intrusion by know it all liberals in their every breathing moment - it's a prime reason why the Wynne Liberals went from majority government to a non-party status rump in the legislature. But liberals are incapable of learning from past mistakes and will continue to impose their view of the world and how people should live if and when they ever are given another chance at governing.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Typical Liberal view of the world - people are incapable of living their own lives without the intervention of the state in everything they do. Might be news to you, but most people reject the constant intrusion by know it all liberals in their every breathing moment - it's a prime reason why the Wynne Liberals went from majority government to a non-party status rump in the legislature. But liberals are incapable of learning from past mistakes and will continue to impose their view of the world and how people should live if and when they ever are given another chance at governing.
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Why should proper sex education not be taught in schools? It sees results, we know it works. All you do is whine about Liberals, you never actually disprove anything. All I have ever seen form you on this forum is complaining by you because the Liberals did something that does not directly benefit you.
 
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Carjosse said:
I think it is time to discuss probably what is probably just the first of many Ford blunders in an attempt to appeal to the social conservatives.

Ford is now backpedalling form a total reversal back to the old curriculum but is now saying more parents need to be consulted. This is despite the fact:


I personally feel several thousand parents is a good enough sample size and statistical theory on sample size would also say that is more than sufficient to get an accurate representation. But now Ford wants to waste taxpayer money consulting tens of thousands of parents on the already implemented curriculum. This is nothing but pure pandering to a social conservative base who do not want to see children properly educated and opposition comes from people who have never even read the actual curriculum.

Here is a summary of what is covered in the revised curriculum that Ford just removed. Students will no longer be taught about many things like the dangers of sexting, what makes a healthy relationship, homosexuality, etc. I have personally experienced being taught the old curriculum it is garbage and teaches nothing other than wear a condom and the changes in puberty.
Click to expand...

Back in my HS days, the 1980's, our school offered a health class, sex education being a syllabus. The class could only be taken with a permission slip from a parent or gaurdian. Some parents wish to teach their own on the subject, and its a parents right. I still believe this is the way to go on the subject.
 
yankintx said:
Back in my HS days, the 1980's, our school offered a health class, sex education being a syllabus. The class could only be taken with a permission slip from a parent or gaurdian. Some parents wish to teach their own on the subject, and its a parents right. I still believe this is the way to go on the subject.
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I have to disagree, parents should not be able to opt their children out. In order for it to be effective it needs to be mandatory. Should parents be able to opt their kids out of math or science?
 
tosca1 said:
Bottomline: it's up to the parents when it comes to very young children!






Why are you suddenly attacking me personally????



Sounds like you're the one who's utterly disappointed now that Ford had taken children out of pedophiles' easy reach! lol.

I don't know what you hope to accomplish with this topic - other than to whine about it. Lol. You even attack me personally just because you can't refute my point!

That sex ed by that pedophile is gone! Live with it.
If you want it back so darn badly - get a petition going - campaign and vote for Ben Levin next time!
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Calm down, Tos, you know I love ya, but he's asking valid questions. Don't get mad because you run out of Ontario Proud memes... ;)

Also...no one respect the Sun anymore...just sayin'.
 
Carjosse said:
Why should proper sex education not be taught in schools? It sees results, we know it works. All you do is whine about Liberals, you never actually disprove anything. All I have ever seen form you on this forum is complaining by you because the Liberals did something that does not directly benefit you.
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I don't whine about Liberals, I call out their hypocrisy and the utter disasters they are as government. Simple fact is that know it all liberals like you believe you, as the state, have more rights related to children than the parental guardians have. As most liberals, you're fine with people acting on their own provided they do exactly as you believe they should do and if they don't, then you, as the state, believe you should interfere and control.

As you've stated above to another poster, you don't believe parents should be allowed to opt out of what liberals foist on them as the one, true, only way of raising a child. Your attitude is dangerous.

I don't want liberals to do something that "benefits me". I want them to get the **** out of my life and if they're in government just concentrate on the purpose of government and stop with the social engineering. You, on the other hand, as a liberal, want government to do everything for you and tell you how you must live your life and, of course, give you all kinds of other peoples' tax dollars to do it.
 
Carjosse said:
I have to disagree, parents should not be able to opt their children out. In order for it to be effective it needs to be mandatory. Should parents be able to opt their kids out of math or science?
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I can see your point. Many parents lack the knowledge or our uncomfortable discussing STD's and birth control.

To add on to my previous post, none of my class mates opted out of health class, and we still had 3-pregnant young ladies pick up their diplomas at the ceremony. And I grew up in a heavily Catholic area, take what you want from that story.
 
CanadaJohn said:
I don't whine about Liberals, I call out their hypocrisy and the utter disasters they are as government. Simple fact is that know it all liberals like you believe you, as the state, have more rights related to children than the parental guardians have. As most liberals, you're fine with people acting on their own provided they do exactly as you believe they should do and if they don't, then you, as the state, believe you should interfere and control.

I don't want liberals to do something that "benefits me". I want them to get the **** out of my life and if they're in government just concentrate on the purpose of government and stop with the social engineering. You, on the other hand, as a liberal, want government to do everything for you and tell you how you must live your life and, of course, give you all kinds of other peoples' tax dollars to do it.
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The government is doing what they should do, they are ensuring that public schools are teaching kids what is necessary and sex education is one of those things. Why draw the line at sex education, should science and math be under the purview of parents exclusively as well?

What about kids who parents actively work to ensure they get none or incorrect information about sex?
 
yankintx said:
I can see your point. Many parents lack the knowledge or our uncomfortable discussing STD's and birth control.

To add on to my previous post, none of my class mates opted out of health class, and we still had 3-pregnant young ladies pick up their diplomas at the ceremony. And I grew up in a heavily Catholic area, take what you want from that story.
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That is what poor sex education will do but some is at least better than none.
 
Carjosse said:
The government is doing what they should do, they are ensuring that public schools are teaching kids what is necessary and sex education is one of those things. Why draw the line at sex education, should science and math be under the purview of parents exclusively as well?
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Considering the piss poor job that schools are doing today in teaching math and science, you might be on to something. Today's public schools, particularly under the Liberals here in Ontario the past 15 years have been churning out increasingly illiterate, undereducated/uneducated, ill prepared for college/university, future societal dependents. But, of course, that's just the type of future voter Liberals want to produce.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Considering the piss poor job that schools are doing today in teaching math and science, you might be on to something. Today's public schools, particularly under the Liberals here in Ontario the past 15 years have been churning out increasingly illiterate, undereducated/uneducated, ill prepared for college/university, future societal dependents. But, of course, that's just the type of future voter Liberals want to produce.
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you've lost your mind... your just coopting this entire discussion to try and bash people you bizarrely believe are antithetical to your ability to function.. take a xanax
 
KerouacJack said:
you've lost your mind... your just coopting this entire discussion to try and bash people you bizarrely believe are antithetical to your ability to function.. take a xanax
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Self awareness escapes you, I see. Thanks for the contribution Mr. Pot
 
Bottom line: Parents have the sole right to decide about sexual education for their young children.

All others in this sex-ed are strangers!
F***! Even Wynne obviously didn't know anything about her minister Ben Levin! :lamo


How does a pedophile teacher teach a child about "inappropriate touchings?" Come here, let me show you honey.:lol:
 
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tosca1 said:
Bottom line: Parents have the sole right to decide about sexual education for their young children.

All others in this sex-ed are strangers!
F***! Even Wynne obviously didn't know anything about her minister Ben Levin! :lamo
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Where is this right defined? What precedent proves this? What other aspect of the curriculum is decided this way?

It's a great slogan, Tos, but is it true?
 
OlNate said:
Where is this right defined? What precedent proves this? What other aspect of the curriculum is decided this way?

It's a great slogan, Tos, but is it true?
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In a broad sense, in the US, parents always maintain the ultimate right to decide the information their child receives because it's fully legal to pull a child out of public school and homeschool or put the child in a private/parochial school.

In a narrower sense, local school boards make the decision about sex-ed and those are usually comprised of parents -- and other parents are allowed to attend the meetings and offer input. So, yeah, technically, it's always a parent's "right." They just might have to take over their child's education, however, if they want to maintain that right.
 
OlNate said:
Where is this right defined? What precedent proves this? What other aspect of the curriculum is decided this way?

It's a great slogan, Tos, but is it true?
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It is a BASIC RIGHT!


Certainly Canadian courts have consistently recognized the importance of the family and the need to protect parents from
improper interference.


"the right of a natural parent to the care and control of a child is basic. It is a right not easily displaced.
Nothing less than cogent evidence of danger to the child's life or health is required before the court will deprive
a parent of such care and control".
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https://commonlaw.uottawa.ca/ottawa...a-law-review/files/12_15ottawalrev2741983.pdf






Olnate.....I'm telling you this (with all my love): you're being silly.

I specifically said sex education, didn't I?
 
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tosca1 said:
It is a BASIC RIGHT!



https://commonlaw.uottawa.ca/ottawa...a-law-review/files/12_15ottawalrev2741983.pdf






Olnate.....I'm telling you this (with all my love): you're being silly.

I specifically said sex education, didn't I?
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Tos, I will always accept all your love... ;) But I'm not being silly. Your quote has nothing to do with school curriculum. In fact, given the issues the new curriculum is trying to address, the second part of your quote comes into play: "Nothing less than cogent evidence of danger to the child's life or health is required before the court will deprive a parent of such care and control".

By denying their children sex education which deals with the realities of today, they are essentially putting their child's health, and potentially their life, in danger.

I'm not as hardline as some. I would support a parent opting to choose to teach the curriculum to their child, rather than some "stranger"...provided the child could pass a test on the material, and be interviewed by a counsellor - this would be especially important for a kid who knows they are gay, and come from a homophobic home, for example. But rejecting the curriculum outright, as if by doing so we could "return to a simpler time" (when kids were getting pregnant and STD's in far greater numbers than countries where kids are properly educated), or something, is unacceptable. I don't want those kids around my kid.

Wynne made a giant mistake by not consulting more, and not respecting parents more...but I fiercely support a curriculum that deals in today's realities. I guess that's where I land, Tos. :)
 
HowardBThiname said:
In a broad sense, in the US, parents always maintain the ultimate right to decide the information their child receives because it's fully legal to pull a child out of public school and homeschool or put the child in a private/parochial school.

In a narrower sense, local school boards make the decision about sex-ed and those are usually comprised of parents -- and other parents are allowed to attend the meetings and offer input. So, yeah, technically, it's always a parent's "right." They just might have to take over their child's education, however, if they want to maintain that right.
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Interesting, I'd never looked into how it works down there.

The problem I see with parents having control over curriculum is exemplified with what we're seeing here. The new curriculum addresses modern societal norms, where the old one ignores them, leaving kids to find out about them on their own, often from much less trustworthy sources. But, because the parents are uncomfortable with the content, and would rather bury their heads in the sand, a provincial leader made killing it part of his platform, and got elected. Now the kids will not get the information they need.

Question: Would you rather have a child learn about today's sexual norms from a trained teacher, or PornHub?
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Super early sex "education" is driven by the agenda of teaching kids early to snitch to the state about abuse in the family....parents and families are not to be trusted...they must be monitored.
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....typical socialist agenda.
 
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