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The threat to free speech in Canada.

stevecanuck

stevecanuck

DP Veteran
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The one freedom that underpins all others is freedom of speech. What good, for example, is freedom of assembly if those gathered are not allowed to express themselves? I believe Liberal MP and Pakistan-born Iqra Khalid's successful launch of a trial balloon called M-103 has put us on the path to losing this right in terms of being able to critically discuss the religion of Islam. In my opinion, this motion had two purposes; one, to create official recognition of the word 'Islamophobia', and two, to gauge how acquiescent Canadians are likely to be when the Liberal government eventually tries to curb our most basic freedom by outlawing any criticism of Islam. To my great dismay, Canadians simply allowed parliament to proclaim the existence of, and then denounce, 'Islamophobia' minus any explanation of how it will be defined. Our quiet acceptance of this obvious gateway motion has paved the way for the Liberals to introduce legislation to criminalize 'Islamophobia' if they remain in power.

The language used to justify suspension of our right to free expression will be soothing, and oh, so reasonable. It will sound something like this, "With all rights come responsibilities, and one of those responsibilities is to protect the most vulnerable among us from the fear and trauma caused by hate speech. The peaceful and tolerant vast majority of Canadians agree that spiteful vitriol has no place in a civil and civilized society ...." and on. You get the picture. But, what it really means is that any criticism of Islamic tenets, regardless of how fact-based and reasonable, will automatically be labelled hate speech. No due process will follow, as a charge of 'Islamophobia' will serve as both accusation and guilty verdict. The truth will not be a defense.

If Iqra Khalid and Justin Trudeau have their way, I would be declared a criminal for doing nothing other than telling a simple and easily verified truth about Islam. For example, verse 4:34 of the Qur'an clearly instructs men to beat their disobedient wives. I believe that I should be allowed to voice my displeasure with that command, but I also believe that one day it will be a crime to do so if we let the Liberals continue on the path they have obviously laid out. We can't let this happen.

http://www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Committee/421/CHPC/Reports/RP9315686/chpcrp10/chpcrp10-e.pdf

BTW, how's this for irony - The front page of M-103 shows a picture of the rotunda of the parliament building, which is where security officers were forced to gun down an Islamic militant who had killed Cpl. Nathan Cirillo and was bent on killing parliamentarians.
 
I think hate speech laws are stupid. Even if someone is anti-gay and makes fun of me for being a homosexual, it's their right to be an asshole.
 
I don't know enough detail about the law, even after reading the proposed draft, to feel as though I can weigh in with any authority because I don't live in Canada and don't have Canadian citizenship.
* tempted to say "unfortunately" here at this juncture ;)

But I am compelled to ask:
How many instances of "disobedient wife beating" are carried out under so called "Islamic justifiable circumstances" in Canada?
How many instances of "disobedient wife beating" are reported under so called "Islamic justifiable circumstances" in Canada?

(verse 4:34 of the Qur'an)

Links would be appreciated.
 
Justin and his government are actively sewing the seeds of their own demise.
Good riddance.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
I don't know enough detail about the law, even after reading the proposed draft, to feel as though I can weigh in with any authority because I don't live in Canada and don't have Canadian citizenship.
* tempted to say "unfortunately" here at this juncture ;)

But I am compelled to ask:
How many instances of "disobedient wife beating" are carried out under so called "Islamic justifiable circumstances" in Canada?
Click to expand...

Obviously that can't be known. What was your point in asking it?

How many instances of "disobedient wife beating" are reported under so called "Islamic justifiable circumstances" in Canada?

(verse 4:34 of the Qur'an)

Links would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

So, how would that work? Does a Muslim woman who's just been beaten call the cops? I'm sure her husband would be very understanding of that, and that there would be no recriminations as a result.
 
stevecanuck said:
Obviously that can't be known. What was your point in asking it?



So, how would that work? Does a Muslim woman who's just been beaten call the cops? I'm sure her husband would be very understanding of that, and that there would be no recriminations as a result.
Click to expand...

I'm just trying to determine if there's enough of this that there is a problem.
It's like walking into a public restroom and seeing signs telling you not to steal the urinal cakes.
Are people really stealing urinal cakes?????????????
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
I'm just trying to determine if there's enough of this that there is a problem.
It's like walking into a public restroom and seeing signs telling you not to steal the urinal cakes.
Are people really stealing urinal cakes?????????????
Click to expand...

The problem is that Islam promotes it, and I want to retain the right to draw attention to it. Islam also explicitly allows its fighters to rape their female captives. Should I be silenced for pointing that out?
 
stevecanuck said:
The one freedom that underpins all others is freedom of speech. What good, for example, is freedom of assembly if those gathered are not allowed to express themselves? I believe Liberal MP and Pakistan-born Iqra Khalid's successful launch of a trial balloon called M-103 has put us on the path to losing this right in terms of being able to critically discuss the religion of Islam. In my opinion, this motion had two purposes; one, to create official recognition of the word 'Islamophobia', and two, to gauge how acquiescent Canadians are likely to be when the Liberal government eventually tries to curb our most basic freedom by outlawing any criticism of Islam. To my great dismay, Canadians simply allowed parliament to proclaim the existence of, and then denounce, 'Islamophobia' minus any explanation of how it will be defined. Our quiet acceptance of this obvious gateway motion has paved the way for the Liberals to introduce legislation to criminalize 'Islamophobia' if they remain in power.

The language used to justify suspension of our right to free expression will be soothing, and oh, so reasonable. It will sound something like this, "With all rights come responsibilities, and one of those responsibilities is to protect the most vulnerable among us from the fear and trauma caused by hate speech. The peaceful and tolerant vast majority of Canadians agree that spiteful vitriol has no place in a civil and civilized society ...." and on. You get the picture. But, what it really means is that any criticism of Islamic tenets, regardless of how fact-based and reasonable, will automatically be labelled hate speech. No due process will follow, as a charge of 'Islamophobia' will serve as both accusation and guilty verdict. The truth will not be a defense.

If Iqra Khalid and Justin Trudeau have their way, I would be declared a criminal for doing nothing other than telling a simple and easily verified truth about Islam. For example, verse 4:34 of the Qur'an clearly instructs men to beat their disobedient wives. I believe that I should be allowed to voice my displeasure with that command, but I also believe that one day it will be a crime to do so if we let the Liberals continue on the path they have obviously laid out. We can't let this happen.

http://www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Committee/421/CHPC/Reports/RP9315686/chpcrp10/chpcrp10-e.pdf

BTW, how's this for irony - The front page of M-103 shows a picture of the rotunda of the parliament building, which is where security officers were forced to gun down an Islamic militant who had killed Cpl. Nathan Cirillo and was bent on killing parliamentarians.
Click to expand...


Meh...I'm unbothered. Who wants to listen to a bunch of chicken ****, bigoted asshats anyway? :shrug:
 
OlNate said:
Meh...I'm unbothered. Who wants to listen to a bunch of chicken ****, bigoted asshats anyway? :shrug:
Click to expand...

So, happy to see Muslims beat their wives with impunity are you? Happy to see mujahadeen rape their captives because it's ordained in the Qur'an are you? Happy to hear Muslims call Jews apes and swine because the Qur'an does? Happy to see Muslims marry prepubescent girls because the Qur'an says it's OK? Or is that just a problem with chicken ****, bigoted asshats?
 
stevecanuck said:
So, happy to see Muslims beat their wives with impunity are you? Happy to see mujahadeen rape their captives because it's ordained in the Qur'an are you? Happy to hear Muslims call Jews apes and swine because the Qur'an does? Happy to see Muslims marry prepubescent girls because the Qur'an says it's OK? Or is that just a problem with chicken ****, bigoted asshats?
Click to expand...

It really is a problem with chicken ****, bigoted asshats. We already have laws against rape and domestic violence, which are not dependent on race or religion. Calm down, you're hysterical.
 
stevecanuck said:
The problem is that Islam promotes it, and I want to retain the right to draw attention to it. Islam also explicitly allows its fighters to rape their female captives. Should I be silenced for pointing that out?
Click to expand...

Do you understand that Islam, Judaism and Christianity are the "Three Great Abrahamic Faiths" and that each of these have scriptures that make eerily familiar recommendations? In fact, all three faiths even share a few common scriptures.

Four thousand years ago people thought and spoke like that as a matter of course. But they also believed that certain images had the power to bring down God Almighty, or that uttering certain incantations could summon Satan, or that demons could possess a person's body and soul. They also believed that Earth was flat and that the Sun revolved around it.

How much of that a person chooses to believe and practice is as much an issue today as it always was but today we have a term for those who interpret all that hokum literally. It's called "fundamentalism" and many believe that fundamentalism is a form of mental illness. Islam promotes it, Judaism promotes it and Christianity promotes it.
It's all there in the holy books and, as has been done countless times before, it can brought right here to your screen if you don't believe it.

Since I am not a member of any organized religion, I am not interested in being an apologist for Islam, however I chuckle at the notion that one size fits all for Islam just as I do for the other two religions.
BECAUSE I KNOW BETTER from personal real life experience with people of all three faiths.

You want the right to draw attention to Islam's old adages because you have a political agenda, one which offers nothing constructive. I repeat: NOTHING CONSTRUCTIVE.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
I don't know enough detail about the law, even after reading the proposed draft, to feel as though I can weigh in with any authority because I don't live in Canada and don't have Canadian citizenship.
* tempted to say "unfortunately" here at this juncture ;)

But I am compelled to ask:
How many instances of "disobedient wife beating" are carried out under so called "Islamic justifiable circumstances" in Canada?
How many instances of "disobedient wife beating" are reported under so called "Islamic justifiable circumstances" in Canada?

(verse 4:34 of the Qur'an)

Links would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
Its a difficult question to answer because no one really knows. If you ask someone that is committing the act of domestic abuse, that person woudl probably look at you hurt and offended. Because they dont see it as domestic abuse but rather the appropriate way to minister to a family. And if it seems like those beliefs are extremee...well...they may be to a non Muslim..but they arent to Muslims.



I dont know of the numbers in Canada...but in the US, the statistics regarding Muslims and domestic violence...
"Statistics vary, but according to a 2011 PFP survey of 801 American Muslim women and men, 56 percent of the women who responded said that they had experienced some type of family or relationship violence in their lifetime, and 31 percent reported experiencing abuse within an intimate partner relationship."
https://www.domesticshelters.org/do...n/american-muslim-women-and-domestic-violence
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/07/world/americas/07iht-muslims.1.9050729.html

But it is a different life and lifestyle.
"If you are already sufficiently appalled knowing there've been 12 despicable "honour killings" in Canada since 2002, don't read any further. This is only the tip of a nightmarish iceberg, I'm afraid.

For some reason, the term honour killings seems to be reserved for murders committed by male family members against daughters or sisters in South Asian or Middle Eastern communities. These unimaginable crimes have been receiving much high-profile notoriety in the Canadian media, as they surely deserve. All Canadians must now know of the tragic murder of 16-year old Aqsa Parvez of Mississauga, strangled to death three years ago by her brother and father.

But I'm confident that not one in a million is aware that in Ontario alone, from 2002 until only 2007 (the latest data), 212 women have been killed by their partners. That's 42 every year, compared with 12 so-called honour killings in all of Canada in the past eight years. Women killed by partners are known as domestic homicides, and, unless especially gruesome, are barely worth a mention in the media. Maybe there's just too many of them to be newsworthy."
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...da-even-worse-than-we-believe/article1314263/

Im sure someone will say "The daily Globe and Mail!!! Thats a conservative/right wing/racist media outlet!!! and do the typical dnce to try to defend all things Muslim. Thats fine...I wouldnt know about the Daily Globe and Mail...only that it is a sourced article. Before someone has a problem with the source they shoul a LEAST ave the integrity t go to where the news source got its data and check to see if its wrong.
"The data comes from the Ontario Domestic Violence Death Review Committee, which I didn't even know existed until it was recently cited in the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives' Monitor."

So is it a 'real' problem? No...not if you dont want it to be.
 
stevecanuck said:
So, happy to see Muslims beat their wives with impunity are you? Happy to see mujahadeen rape their captives because it's ordained in the Qur'an are you? Happy to hear Muslims call Jews apes and swine because the Qur'an does? Happy to see Muslims marry prepubescent girls because the Qur'an says it's OK? Or is that just a problem with chicken ****, bigoted asshats?
Click to expand...

I wonder if these kinds of efforts could result in adverse action taken against groups like Never Again that point out anti-Semitism being advanced by radical Muslims.
 
Spartacus FPV said:
Translation: I don't care about the rights of people I disagree with.
Click to expand...

That's a pretty broad generalization, compared to the pretty specific context I made that statement in, Spart, but if that's the way you wanna read it... :shrug:
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:


"Hell's gonna be pretty hot for you": My summer with a Christian hate preacher
Click to expand...


Maybe people should stop attacking their beliefs. 100 years ago, "I don't particularly care for him" was sufficient.

The more people attack their beliefs, the angrier and more determined they become.
Click to expand...

I would say that the death threats are far more serious than anything that Pastor might say.

Steven and his family get death threats on an almost daily basis. He played me some of the voicemail messages he receives in his back-office just before I left Phoenix for the last time.
Click to expand...

Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one. What is disturbing about your video is the phrase: "This guy's got to go." One of the commentators is just one more advocate of our post freedom society.
 
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OlNate said:
It really is a problem with chicken ****, bigoted asshats. We already have laws against rape and domestic violence, which are not dependent on race or religion. Calm down, you're hysterical.
Click to expand...

Yes, we have those laws. Maybe even Syria had those laws, but just a Yazidi woman whose family was killed as they dragged her off to be a sex slave how much good that did her. Islam allows that, and I'm going to continue to point that sort of thing out.
 
stevecanuck said:
Yes, we have those laws. Maybe even Syria had those laws, but just a Yazidi woman whose family was killed as they dragged her off to be a sex slave how much good that did her. Islam allows that, and I'm going to continue to point that sort of thing out.
Click to expand...

Alright, well, we all need a purpose, I guess... :shrug: I think your generalization doesn't line up to the reality we see in this country, and I think the behaviours you're concerned about are already against the law...so I'm not clear as to what your purpose is, but...have at er? Sorry, I just don't get it...
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Do you understand that Islam, Judaism and Christianity are the "Three Great Abrahamic Faiths" and that each of these have scriptures that make eerily familiar recommendations? In fact, all three faiths even share a few common scriptures.
Click to expand...

It's impossible to discuss Islam without having to deal with this red herring. Islam accepts what the bible says UNLESS otherwise stated in the Qur'an, and there are 6236 verses worth of "unless" in it. And it's the "unless" that causes all the trouble. It's what led to the first Muslims trying to conquer the known world, and it's what's responsible for the terrorism and jihad of today.

Four thousand years ago people thought and spoke like that as a matter of course. But they also believed that certain images had the power to bring down God Almighty, or that uttering certain incantations could summon Satan, or that demons could possess a person's body and soul. They also believed that Earth was flat and that the Sun revolved around it.

How much of that a person chooses to believe and practice is as much an issue today as it always was but today we have a term for those who interpret all that hokum literally. It's called "fundamentalism"
Click to expand...

Yup

and many believe that fundamentalism is a form of mental illness. Islam promotes it, Judaism promotes it and Christianity promotes it.
It's all there in the holy books and, as has been done countless times before, it can brought right here to your screen if you don't believe it.
Click to expand...

And the Islamic version of this hokum has undergone a spectacular rebirth since oh, about May 14 1948. You can't possibly deny that, can you?

Since I am not a member of any organized religion, I am not interested in being an apologist for Islam, however I chuckle at the notion that one size fits all for Islam just as I do for the other two religions.
BECAUSE I KNOW BETTER from personal real life experience with people of all three faiths.
Click to expand...

One size fit all in 634 AD (11 AH) when Mohamed's army set out on it's divine mission of conquest. Today there is a sizable, and EXTREMELY dedicated minority who are trying to relive the glory days of the first century of Islam. Do you deny that? You can't, so I'm going to assume you didn't, which brings me to my next question. Where does all this hatred and adherence to 7th century barbarity come from if not the Qur'an and the example set by Mohamed and first Muslims? <<<< REAL question.

You want the right to draw attention to Islam's old adages
Click to expand...

Islam doesn't have "old" adages. It only has adages.

because you have a political agenda, one which offers nothing constructive. I repeat: NOTHING CONSTRUCTIVE.
Click to expand...

Pointing out simple truth is not constructive? Knowing where the hatred and jihad come from is NOT constructive? Your call. You climb back into that cocoon of willful ignorance if you want to, but I choose to recognize the ugly truth. As I said, your call, but don't expect me to join you.
 
OlNate said:
Alright, well, we all need a purpose, I guess... :shrug: I think your generalization doesn't line up to the reality we see in this country,
Click to expand...

We have honour killings, forced genital mutilation, forced marriages, and yes, Islamic terrorism in this country now. There was a time we didn't, but Islam has brought all that to Canada.

and I think the behaviours you're concerned about are already against the law...so I'm not clear as to what your purpose is, but...have at er? Sorry, I just don't get it...
Click to expand...

You don't get that I identify the source of all the above? Really?
 
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