Russia’s coming attack on Canada

Russia’s coming attack on Canada

The smear job on Chrystia Freeland is only the start. Why Canada is a logical next target in Moscow’s desperate clandestine war.

I'll also add that Canada has the largest Ukrainian community in the West, and Canada currently has ~200 soldiers in Ukraine training the UA military and UA medics.

Rogue Valley said:

Russia’s coming attack on Canada

The smear job on Chrystia Freeland is only the start. Why Canada is a logical next target in Moscow’s desperate clandestine war.

I'll also add that Canada has the largest Ukrainian community in the West, and Canada currently has ~200 soldiers in Ukraine training the UA military and UA medics.

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In the information age, it makes sense that a desperate nation would use misinformation as a weapon of war.

I found this part interesting:

Money is another useful tool in the campaign. Across Europe, Moscow has secretly and in some cases openly funded radical populist politicians (like Le Pen) and groups who are fomenting anti-immigrant hysteria.

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and this one:

It is hard to imagine any of these tactics would actually disrupt our election or cause anything but irritation for Canadians. Our politics are not as tightly wound as in other countries. As a promising sign, the Conservative party refused to play along with Russia’s smear job on Freeland (although some newspapers did). We also have fewer nativist demagogues waiting in the wings, and we have been forewarned by what is unraveling elsewhere. But, would anyone have ever predicted the political chaos in the United States? It is impossible to say if Moscow will be as successful here, but we do know the Russians are already trying, and if they do find the right wedge or the wrong secret, they will use it.

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but Vladimir said he didn't do it, and Trump believes him.

Expect Trumpers to defend Putin. 3 2 1...

Just out of curiosity, do you think Canada could withstand an attack from Mexico?

Rogue Valley said:

Russia’s coming attack on Canada

The smear job on Chrystia Freeland is only the start. Why Canada is a logical next target in Moscow’s desperate clandestine war.

I'll also add that Canada has the largest Ukrainian community in the West, and Canada currently has ~200 soldiers in Ukraine training the UA military and UA medics.

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The sad part about it is that the citizens of the target countries are playing into it for political advantage with beliefs like:

but Vladimir said he didn't do it, and Trump believes him.

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As if somehow Putin's Russia is helping "your" side to gain advantage so you use it. The reality is Putin is trying to destroy both sides.

Abbazorkzog said:

Just out of curiosity, do you think Canada could withstand an attack from Mexico?

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It would be hard for Mexico to attack Canada with the US acting as a giant buffer between these countries.

Abbazorkzog said:

Just out of curiosity, do you think Canada could withstand an attack from Mexico?

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Mexico would have to get to Canada first. No real navy, no real air force.

It's military has a higher focus on domestic security than being an attacking force. Rural Canadians all tend to have hunting rifles/shotguns and know the land quite well. Urban Canadians, not so much.

So yes Canada could

chuckiechan said:

The sad part about it is that the citizens of the target countries are playing into it for political advantage with beliefs like:



As if somehow Putin's Russia is helping "your" side to gain advantage so you use it. The reality is Putin is trying to destroy both sides.

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Could it work in Canada, yes, but there is no real need for Russia to spend resources on the Canadian election in any significant way.

Our military is small, our support to countries around Russia is small, and would only increase if Russia was found to meddle in our election. Canada overall is of no strategic value to Russia. To the US yes, and that is unlikely to change regardless of which party is in power.

To screw with the US, meddling in the Mexican election would provide a much higher reward for Russia. An even more chaotic Mexico would mess with US security far more than having the Conservatives or Liberals in power and not liking each other. Only by supporting the BQ (Quebec Nationalists) would Russia get any bang for its buck

Lord Tammerlain said:

Could it work in Canada, yes, but there is no real need for Russia to spend resources on the Canadian election in any significant way.

Our military is small, our support to countries around Russia is small, and would only increase if Russia was found to meddle in our election. Canada overall is of no strategic value to Russia. To the US yes, and that is unlikely to change regardless of which party is in power.

To screw with the US, meddling in the Mexican election would provide a much higher reward for Russia. An even more chaotic Mexico would mess with US security far more than having the Conservatives or Liberals in power and not liking each other. Only by supporting the BQ (Quebec Nationalists) would Russia get any bang for its buck

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It's a friend of the USA and a free country of strategic importance and a NATO member. Russia has not forgotten the potential of exploiting the political division between "French" Canada, and "English" Canada. Putin makes trouble where Putin can make trouble.

Yes_Minister said:

It would be hard for Mexico to attack Canada with the US acting as a giant buffer between these countries.

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Mexico won't attack Canada. It will invade it by proxy like they have done to the USA - family by family.

Lord Tammerlain said:

Mexico would have to get to Canada first. No real navy, no real air force.

It's military has a higher focus on domestic security than being an attacking force. Rural Canadians all tend to have hunting rifles/shotguns and know the land quite well. Urban Canadians, not so much.

So yes Canada could

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Exactly. And Russia has an economic power roughly the size of Mexico.

chuckiechan said:

It's a friend of the USA and a free country of strategic importance and a NATO member. Russia has not forgotten the potential of exploiting the political division between "French" Canada, and "English" Canada. Putin makes trouble where Putin can make trouble.

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That division has died down a lot, to be honest...it's been years since anyone's talked about Quebec separating in any kind of real way.

Here's my 2 cents... No one is going to invade Canada. Sure, Russia may try to mess with us, you guys might try to mess with us, things might go a little crazy for a bit... but we're not as susceptible to influence. For one thing, we don't have as big a percentage of our population with as much to be pissed off about as you guys do. Most of us are doing ok, and when we think we're not, we just have to look south, and we continue on our way. So while we do have our lunatic fringes on both sides, far fewer of us have felt the need to join them.

Mainly, though, we're Canadian... It's not like us to get caught up in that stuff. lol... I've already heard it a number of times up here...not sure if my fellow Canadians on DP can back me up on this one, but I've definitely heard two things:

1) From moderate conservatives to rabid fringe "righties": what are ya, a Trumpster?? (followed by laughter)

2) From moderate Liberal and NDP supporters to rabid fringe "lefties": what, joining AntiFa now?? (followed by laughter)

I think at the end of the day we have less interest in hullabaloo than you guys do, which will ultimately make us less at risk of getting our chains yanked by the ever nefarious Russians. At least, that's the hope I'm holding onto....depends on how contagious dumbassery is, I suppose.

OlNate said:

That division has died down a lot, to be honest...it's been years since anyone's talked about Quebec separating in any kind of real way.

Here's my 2 cents... No one is going to invade Canada. Sure, Russia may try to mess with us, you guys might try to mess with us, things might go a little crazy for a bit... but we're not as susceptible to influence. For one thing, we don't have as big a percentage of our population with as much to be pissed off about as you guys do. Most of us are doing ok, and when we think we're not, we just have to look south, and we continue on our way. So while we do have our lunatic fringes on both sides, far fewer of us have felt the need to join them.

Mainly, though, we're Canadian... It's not like us to get caught up in that stuff. lol... I've already heard it a number of times up here...not sure if my fellow Canadians on DP can back me up on this one, but I've definitely heard two things:

1) From moderate conservatives to rabid fringe "righties": what are ya, a Trumpster?? (followed by laughter)

2) From moderate Liberal and NDP supporters to rabid fringe "lefties": what, joining AntiFa now?? (followed by laughter)

I think at the end of the day we have less interest in hullabaloo than you guys do, which will ultimately make us less at risk of getting our chains yanked by the ever nefarious Russians. At least, that's the hope I'm holding onto....depends on how contagious dumbassery is, I suppose.

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Very few Canadians are tied up with being "Conservative", "Liberal", or "New Democrat". A small percentage of Canadians might join a political party to vote for the various candidates. For the most part we just vote every few years, then complain about the morons we elected.

Lord Tammerlain said:

Very few Canadians are tied up with being "Conservative", "Liberal", or "New Democrat". A small percentage of Canadians might join a political party to vote for the various candidates. For the most part we just vote every few years, then complain about the morons we elected.

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Agreed. Most people I know have voted all over the spectrum. It's just hard to explain that to Americans right now...

Lord Tammerlain said:

Very few Canadians are tied up with being "Conservative", "Liberal", or "New Democrat". A small percentage of Canadians might join a political party to vote for the various candidates. For the most part we just vote every few years, then complain about the morons we elected.

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Here, people cheerlead for their party the same way they do for their favorite football team, maybe go vote and maybe not, then complain about the morons we've elected. The end result seems to be the same.

Dittohead not! said:

In the information age, it makes sense that a desperate nation would use misinformation as a weapon of war.

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It is only the beginning, I assume.

Rogue Valley said:

Expect Trumpers to defend Putin. 3 2 1...

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No one falling for your bait?

Lovebug said:

It is only the beginning, I assume.

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It is only the beginning. Cyber warfare is in its infancy right now.

Dittohead not! said:

Here, people cheerlead for their party the same way they do for their favorite football team, maybe go vote and maybe not, then complain about the morons we've elected. The end result seems to be the same.

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I expect the main difference is the entrenched politicians that maintain their post and have significant influence for decades (ie a McCain or Pelosi). Federally the party in power tends to only stay in power for at most 12 years before the public gets tired of them. Once out of power, the politicians in that party see their influence drop drastically. Leading many to seek other jobs outside of elected office when that occurs. A few try to run for provincial offices, but that tends not to work out well.

So for Canada we churn out our political leaders I believe more often than the US does (outside of Alberta, but when Alberta turns it does so on a massive scale)

Dittohead not! said:

It is only the beginning. Cyber warfare is in its infancy right now.

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My guess is that we will always be chasing our tails on that type of warfare and other cyber attacks. Have we been too complacent for too long, or are we ready to either prevent or respond in kind? If anything positive has come from the Russia/Trump fiasco, it is the stern warning to be on the lookout for anything.

OlNate said:

Agreed. Most people I know have voted all over the spectrum. It's just hard to explain that to Americans right now...

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None of our grandstanding matters. Cyber crime hasn't just emerged in recent months/years but is a time in the making. No matter how conservative or liberal we may be, those who are intent on attacking us this way could care less about how outraged we are about the elected. It will hit us hard, all of us, whether we complain daily, weekly, or not at all.

chuckiechan said:

Mexico won't attack Canada. It will invade it by proxy like they have done to the USA - family by family.

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Unless Mexico is annexing states, its not an invasion.

Regardless its harder for Mexicans to get to Canada due to distance and the fact that the climate is far different in Canada then Mexico or the states that border Mexico, makes it harder for illegal immigrants to get work (a shorter growing season means far less demand for people to pick fruit) and live comfortably (Canadian winters would be a shock to new Mexican immigrants).

Dittohead not! said:

In the information age, it makes sense that a desperate nation would use misinformation as a weapon of war.

I found this part interesting:



and this one:



but Vladimir said he didn't do it, and Trump believes him.

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It is a long term methodology

The US has practiced it for decades and a prime example is Chile in the late 60's and early 70's.

It is not the act of a desperate nation, but a cost effective method to disrupt/prevent events that the country nation does not want

Yes_Minister said:

Unless Mexico is annexing states, its not an invasion.

Regardless its harder for Mexicans to get to Canada due to distance and the fact that the climate is far different in Canada then Mexico or the states that border Mexico, makes it harder for illegal immigrants to get work (a shorter growing season means far less demand for people to pick fruit) and live comfortably (Canadian winters would be a shock to new Mexican immigrants).

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Also any business of any size has to register all employees with Revenue Canada with their SIN card. Red flags would get raised pretty quickly if one SIN number had 10 full time jobs associated with it. So any illegal immigrants would have to work "under the table" which only works for small business's with very few employee's (typically family run). So the economic value of staying in Canada as an illegal immigrant is very low

If Mr. Putin's Russia wants to meddle in Canadian domestic politics he'll have to get in line. Over the years of my life I have seen the UK, America, the USSR, France, Spain, Japan, "Europe", and China all attempt at some point to meddle in Canadian domestic politics at either the Federal or the provincial levels in the past. While this has been annoying, all this interference has really come to naught in most cases. So if Mr. Putin wants to queue up to that long and tedious line and have a go at us, then let him do so. He will very likely be disappointed however as a substantial proportion of Canadians are far more politically aware and internationally focused then other North American countries and we therefore have a stronger political immunity to foreign meddling and chicanery in our electoral process.

There is however a real potential flashpoint for conflict between Russia and Canada in the Arctic Basin and that is where we might most usefully focus our anti-Russian skepticism and vigilance. It is an irony of history perhaps that even if we had the will and the fiscal means to develop a potent and effective anti-Russian home-grown military potential to unilaterally defend Canadian interests in the Canadian Arctic (which we lack and have lacked for more than seven decades), political interference from another closer superpower would prevent us from developing the nuclear-powered attack submarine capability, ASW capability and surface icebreaker capability to properly patrol and defend the Arctic, because that other superpower also challenges Canadian sovreignity in the Arctic and does not want us interfering in its freedom of submarine-based military dominance of the Arctic Ocean. That non-Russian superpower has consistently interfered in Canadian politics in order to prevent the emergence of an effective Canadian nuclear-powered, submarine-based military deterrent in Canada.

So we should remain on guard for signs of Mr. Putin's sticky fingers in the Canadian political cookie jar and act accordingly if they are detected, but we also have bigger fish to fry when it comes to outside influence/interference in the Canadian political process and we should not become overly focused on one bit-player when far more powerful foreign interests are routinely at work trying to reshape the Canadian political economy.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.